Special Teams 2021-22

[Pokerbrat2000]

I want to share 5 players whose skillset and depth on the team to me are the types of guys you MUST play on special teams and yet we failed to do so:

I would love to know what other NFL teams do in this regard. I don't follow any of them close enough to know. My understanding of why special teams is mostly compromised of backups is for 2 big reasons.

First, injuries to starters. Probably in itself a good reason you don't want someone getting a good clean knockout shot on one of your starters as they are running down the field on a suicide mission. Also within that, starters may have just completed a series of downs and could be tired.

Second, practice time. Now you can't tell by the Packers special teams (that they practice), but due to practices being very limited by the NFL, they don't have as much time. So if your special teams groups consist of 3 starters from offense and 4 from defense, those guys would lose practice time with their respective units.

I get that with what we saw the last...way too many years, the instinct is to say "we need better players on special teams." Actually, I think they are already there, we just need more consistent players and ones that don't make mistakes, which I really believe comes down to coaching. Maybe Gute will decide to spend a late draft pick on a return specialist, but I doubt we see many starters lining up in special teams in 2022, unless it is during a very crucial part of a game. (onside kick, playoffs, etc.)

 

[tynimiller]

For reference I believe the man that blocked our punt was the Niners starting safety that game.

I don't disagree, it will always be mainly your depth or back up guys.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

For reference I believe the man that blocked our punt was the Niners starting safety that game.

I don't disagree, it will always be mainly your depth or back up guys.

You are thinking of the FG and yes, that was starting FS Jimmie Ward that blocked the FG. The Blocked punt was by 3rd string LB/DE Jordan Willis. Then backup SS Talanoa Hufanga recovered it and returned it for a TD.

I don't know if Ward generally plays on FG units, but if you watch that play, I really think it was something the 49'ers saw in film and potentially thought Ward was the best player to execute the "chop the blockers arm" and someone is free to rush in untouched, that it was. They totally exploited the Packers OL on that play and I believe it was Lowry whose arm got chopped, as Ward slipped right by.

 

[tynimiller]

You are thinking of the FG and yes, that was starting FS Jimmie Ward that blocked the FG. The Blocked punt was by 3rd string LB/DE Jordan Willis. Then backup SS Talanoa Hufanga recovered it and returned it for a TD.

I don't know if Ward generally plays on FG units, but if you watch that play, I really think it was something the 49'ers saw in film and potentially thought Ward was the best player to execute the "chop the blockers arm" and someone is free to rush in untouched, that it was. They totally exploited the Packers OL on that play and I believe it was Lowry whose arm got chopped, as Ward slipped right by.

I'd have to analyze who was tasked with blocking all year at spots but I partially wonder if OL injuries led to more Defensive guys like Lowry and like Slaton to be used in blocking.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd have to analyze who was tasked with blocking all year at spots but I partially wonder if OL injuries led to more Defensive guys like Lowry and like Slaton to be used in blocking.

Ask Drayton...oh wait...he won't know either.

I kind of think for years they have used a mix of both offense and defense for those tasks. Really its basic blocking, it isn't a run, it isn't a pass, you just keep your man from getting behind you.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While I understand that there's still a lot of time left to make a move I'm shocked that Drayton hasn't been fired by now.

There's absolutely no need for a thourough evaluation before deciding he's not up to the task.

 

[milani]

I want to share 5 players whose skillset and depth on the team to me are the types of guys you MUST play on special teams and yet we failed to do so:

Lucas Patrick - 14.78% of the ST snaps. Now I get it there were times we were no doubt trying to not risk OL getting hurt so we didn't use (MASSIVE DOWNFALL FROM OL INJURIES FOR SURE) but an experienced blocker and versatile like he is, there is no excuse for him not being part of them much.

Allen Lazard - This is ABSURD and there better be a damn good reason why he never saw time on them because we all know in the game against the Niners he approached Drayton after the 49ers 68 yard return that he wanted to play coverage unit so that didn't happen again....what happens over the course of the 2021 season? Lazard played on only 23 snaps or 5.31% of ST snaps. LUDACRIS, INSANE and IGNORANT. Here you have a guy that excels at blocking for WR, has a killer instinct to WANT TO play coverage and we refuse essentially?

Kevin King and Chandon Sullivan - Both good sized, experienced defensive backs.....I put both of them in here because I get if with Jaire out and King's injury history perhaps not shoving both out there more but to have King only play 7.16% and Sully 7.39% of the ST snaps is absurd. When your ST's suck, you put more and more quality depth or even starters in there. Get the job done, or be done with the job Drayton.

Tipa Galeai - He played 13.86%...now some of this is due to he wasn't always on gameday rosters, but when he was I truly think a guy with his skillset and such needed seen more on ST. However, to understand this some it must be noted our Edge defenders were going down like flies...and to risk more almost was worse than an OL going down.


Injuries hurt and they truly compounded our ST woes for sure...but Lazard and Sullivan both should have been out there more without blinking.

Special Teams require good athletes. So the fear of injury should not mean you simply put scrubs out there. Yes, Dillon got hurt on a kickoff return and missed the crucial 4th quarter but yes these guys should have played. Back in 1966 when Lombardi won SB 1 LB-DE Phil Vandersea managed to make the smaller roster of that time. He was the same size as many of the Packers 6-3 245. He was never a starter and got on the field almost exclusively on Special Teams. In the locker room after winning the SB he thanked Lombardi for letting him be on the team. It was a memory he would cherish. Lombardi answered him: " If you did not deserve to be on this team you would not be here. " In other words Lombardi believed in the 220th pick in the 1965 draft and used him accordingly on special teams.

 

[longtimefan]

Coachable er no?

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[Half Empty]

Not a player, but I can see an explanation that he's looking left all the time, things are fine there, and he's taking off downfield to cover. Also doesn't look like he'd be able to help since the guy he'd have to help block was on the other side of the Packer supposedly doing it. Just a Devil's Advocate position.

 

[tynimiller]

Coachable er no?

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Someone else may know more but I was always under the assumption Black is not supposed to cross punter to block I believe?

 

[pacmaniac]

While I understand that there's still a lot of time left to make a move I'm shocked that Drayton hasn't been fired by now.

There's absolutely no need for a thourough evaluation before deciding he's not up to the task.

Report: Maurice Drayton out as Packers special teams coordinator - ProFootballTalk

Given the way their NFC divisional round playoff loss to the 49ers played out last month, no one would have been surprised if the Packers fired special teams coordinator Maurice Drayton before they left Lambeau Field for the night.As it turned out, it took a week for the team to make its move...

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[Voyageur]

Not certain where it's going to go. How much can you blame on Drayton, how much on others, for what they gave him as tools. Sometimes the bottom end of the roster needs to address special teams, because these guys more than likely will never hit the field in other positions. Having a guy gathering dust at the end of the bench because he's your "5th TE" doesn't make any sense, if there's a guy out there who can play special teams like it means something.

 

[Pkrjones]

Not certain where it's going to go. How much can you blame on Drayton, how much on others, for what they gave him as tools. Sometimes the bottom end of the roster needs to address special teams, because these guys more than likely will never hit the field in other positions. Having a guy gathering dust at the end of the bench because he's your "5th TE" doesn't make any sense, if there's a guy out there who can play special teams like it means something.

Since you used our 5th TE as an example here are Tyler Davis' stats. He became a Packer 9/28 and carved a productive role on ST and earned playing time as the season progressed.

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[tynimiller]

Since you used our 5th TE as an example here are Tyler Davis' stats. He became a Packer 9/28 and carved a productive role on ST and earned playing time as the season progressed.

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Davis honestly carved out a future chance at a spot in GB I'd bet with Tonyan injury and Lewis age - he filled in and did well even in his offensive snaps too

 

[Voyageur]

Since you used our 5th TE as an example here are Tyler Davis' stats. He became a Packer 9/28 and carved a productive role on ST and earned playing time as the season progressed.

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He has done good for himself. Now let's hope they realize that, and keep him. If he develops his receiving skills, who knows where it could lead? But, you need several guys like that, not one. That's the crux of the problem. I don't think (just my opinion here) the Packers even consider the impact a player can have on STs when they draft, or pick up FAs. I think you start by stashing 2 or 3 of them on the practice squad, and work on them to develop their other abilities, to see if you can use them down the road in various situations.

Anyhow, just my opinion.

 

[tynimiller]

He has done good for himself. Now let's hope they realize that, and keep him. If he develops his receiving skills, who knows where it could lead? But, you need several guys like that, not one. That's the crux of the problem. I don't think (just my opinion here) the Packers even consider the impact a player can have on STs when they draft, or pick up FAs. I think you start by stashing 2 or 3 of them on the practice squad, and work on them to develop their other abilities, to see if you can use them down the road in various situations.

Anyhow, just my opinion.

Hope they keep him? Tyler Davis is signed to the 2022 roster, no hoping - he'll at minimum be at camp for sure.

Yiadom from all signs only had an active roster spot because of his STs, EQ similar but to a lesser degree, McDuffie and Davis also both fit that.

 

[Team Ronny]

Ask Drayton...oh wait...he won't know either.

I kind of think for years they have used a mix of both offense and defense for those tasks. Really its basic blocking, it isn't a run, it isn't a pass, you just keep your man from getting behind you.

He got **** canned! Maybe a veteran st coach can rescue our misfits.

 

[El Guapo]

I liked Drayton early on. He seemed to have the rah-rah to motivate the special teams. Clearly, his units did not perform well in many of the critical areas and it ultimately was one of the downfalls of the season. LaFleur needs to fall on that sword too and chock it up as another learning experience. I agree that he would do well to find a veteran ST coach, but unfortunately they don't grow on trees and aren't always what they are talked up to be. More importantly, I hope that he finds a coach that can fix the mess, because I expect us to be more of a field position team without Rodgers.

 

[Team Ronny]

The thing that bothered me most was the fact that the mistakes never seemed to be corrected. Bad snaps, missed fgs, blocked fgs or punts, long punt or kick returns, penalties, no lane discipline. They replaced a bad long snapper with a worse one. They played ok for a game or 2, then right back to their old habits.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The thing that bothered me most was the fact that the mistakes never seemed to be corrected. Bad snaps, missed fgs, blocked fgs or punts, long punt or kick returns, penalties, no lane discipline. They replaced a bad long snapper with a worse one. They played ok for a game or 2, then right back to their old habits.

Add to all the mistakes, the fact that the Special teams units never seem to contribute anything special. I think most Packer fans have gotten used to holding their breath and hoping nothing goes wrong during plays that the specials teams are in.

 

[Team Ronny]

No doubt..not shocked they lost mostly because of the not so special teams. The offense going stagnant obviously didn't help, 7 more points and they win.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Add to all the mistakes, the fact that the Special teams units never seem to contribute anything special.

Oh, they contributed a lot of special plays in 2022. Unfortunately nearly all of them benefitted the opponent.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Oh, they contributed a lot of special plays in 2022. Unfortunately nearly all of them benefitted the opponent.

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[Voyageur]

At the NFL level, it seems to me that a decent ST coach would be able to identify the weaknesses in players given to him, to create each team. When he identifies those weaknesses, he should be modifying the player's field response, or finding someone else to fill the role. If he can't do that, it's time to talk to the head coach and explain to him what he needs from a player. Then, it's on the HC's shoulders to find someone else through his coordinators, that they fill can handle that role, and they're willing to make available.

At that point, it also has become a question as to whether or not that player, or players, who can't seem to handle the roles on ST are that valuable to the team. If they are, you might work with them on the side to teach them how to properly do that job, but you might also warn them that it's either get it right, or they're going to find themselves on waivers in a short period of time.

The fact is, the last few spots on a roster more than likely aren't guys you're going to rely on, when it comes to your offense and defense. They're an emergency level body to throw into a game, not much more. You can find others, on someone's practice squad, or a free agent, who would more than likely be happy as hell to get a shot at being on someone's 53 man team.

I have to question if Drayton identified problems, and properly presented the problem to LeFleur, and then, how the HC handled it, in dealing with the issue? We probably will never know, but the pretty much need to look in the mirror as to how this all unfolded.

When you show such lack of respect for STs, as to change the holder, and then the long snapper, after the season is about to start, it shows you have a lack of understanding as to how critical the jobs of people on those units really are. If you're cavalier at this level, I find it hard to believe you'd be any different when it came to the nuts and bolts of the job, below these special skill levels.

In other words, no matter how much anyone wants to blame it on any player, or Drayton, we need to look to the HC, the rest of the coordinators, and the people who find players for the team, to share the majority of the blame. They did not do what's necessary, for them to do the best they could, in developing those teams.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In other words, no matter how much anyone wants to blame it on any player, or Drayton, we need to look to the HC, the rest of the coordinators, and the people who find players for the team, to share the majority of the blame. They did not do what's necessary, for them to do the best they could, in developing those teams.

I partially agree with you on putting some of the blame on MLF and Gute, but mainly just for hiring Drayton. Then they compounded that mistake by keeping him through the entire season, when it was obvious he was in over his head. It is the job of each coordinator to coach up his players. Not the job of MLF or Gute to do that. It is the job of Drayton to talk to MLF and if he needs something, try to make a change. Yes, we don't know what was being said or done in private, but most of us saw Drayton blowing sunshine up reporters as$ about how the Special teams is a process and they are improving each week.

Drayton obviously fell way short of the mark on this. The players he is given to work with, may not be NFL starters, but they sure the heck have NFL skills, otherwise they wouldn't be on the team. Yes, he has to work with a lot of rotations of players through the roster due to injuries, covid, etc. However, so does every other special teams coordinator.

If the Packers had to lose a playoff game, I am kind of glad that it came down to botched Special teams play. For once the Packer front office might actually see just how important it is to have a really good ST coach.