Special Teams 2021-22

[milani]

What makes it even worse is that the 49ers special teams weren't so special either if you believe Buck and Aikman, and their units thoroughly dominated ours. And now that I think about it, what about the kickoff return to open the second half. You should never see seven coverage guys on your TV screen attempting to tackle the returner. Half the coverage unit left their lanes, making it easy for Samuel to break right for a big gain. Staying in your lanes is Special Teams 101, and they couldn't even do that right, and it certainly wasn't the first time this season it happened. Just total incompetence from Drayton.

So very true. And we know this was not a one time failure or even a slight trend. It has been ugly all season if I can remember. We wait an entire decade to play outstanding defense in a playoff game and the one time we do the other tires have a blow out.

 

[milani]

Anyone with half a brain saw this coming from a mile away. They couldn’t even string 3 straight games of regular season STs success. What made you think it was gonna happen in the playoffs against teams with better STs and coaches?

One would think that the Packer staff felt that oh well we are so good in other areas that we can overcome bad ST like we have most of the season. Disgraceful. Some of it is the players but a lot is coaching. These are fundamentals and the average ST player can at least perform them with some competence.

 

[milani]

I think Lancaster and our long snapper were the primary culprits in those 2 plays. Don’t think they were affected by guys coming back from
IR.

I started asking myself about practice and preparation but also why did the Packer staff not see this as a critical red flag. The blocked FG by Pittsburgh may very well have been offside. But the one in KC was simply because Kelly who had a bad back fell down and let Okafor walk in and block the kick. And the blocked FG on Saturday night was a boneheaded a play that you do not even see in HS. Since when do you block the outside rusher before the inside rusher. The kick is in the center of the formation. Common sense. And on the punt we had 8 people capable of blocking the Niners who only had 5 rushing. And then it was pointed out that BoJo took an extra half step in order to " launch " what he hoped would be one of his boomers giving the unblocked 9er just enough time to get there. This is sick. Now Drayton will definitely be gone but next year this team will be living on punts and FGs and a few PATs. We better have a ST coach that can coach and a head coach who is not just cognizant but responsive.

 

[milani]

One would think that the Packer staff felt that oh well we are so good in other areas that we can overcome bad ST like we have most of the season. Disgraceful. Some of it is the players but a lot is coaching. These are fundamentals and the average ST player can at least perform them with some competence.

Almost all games now are decided by STs

Speaking of Lombardi. I can tell you that in the 1962 Championship game the Giants blocked a Max McGee punt and recovered it in the end zone. It was the only Giant score of the day and the only Packer mistake of the day. Playing in horrific icy, windy conditions it was there only flaw of the day. But Lombardi was still livid. In the next to last game of the regular season in 1967 the Packers only had to punt and pin the Rams deep to knock them out of the playoffs. Donny Anderson had his punt blocked and returned and the Rams scored to win the game right after. Lombardi tried to control his wrath. When he faced the Rams two weeks later his special teams responded. Why? Because as a head coach he understood that NO stone should be overlooked.

 

[Sanguine camper]

It might make sense to draft a good kick returner who proved it in college, rather than relegating the duties to the fifth wr or cb. It may also make sense to hire a special teams coordinator who has a record of success, not somebody who was part of a failed system like Drayton. Just saying a little bit of competence would go a long way towards fixing the anvil of a special teams around the Packer's necks

 

[KiDcUdI]

One would think that the Packer staff felt that oh well we are so good in other areas that we can overcome bad ST like we have most of the season. Disgraceful. Some of it is the players but a lot is coaching. These are fundamentals and the average ST player can at least perform them with some competence.

If that’s why they believed they should all go. If they believed that they were so good in 2 phases of the game that they could just let the other 3rd be the worst I have ever seen in professional football they need to be out the door.

 

[KiDcUdI]

Speaking of Lombardi. I can tell you that in the 1962 Championship game the Giants blocked a Max McGee punt and recovered it in the end zone. It was the only Giant score of the day and the only Packer mistake of the day. Playing in horrific icy, windy conditions it was there only flaw of the day. But Lombardi was still livid. In the next to last game of the regular season in 1967 the Packers only had to punt and pin the Rams deep to knock them out of the playoffs. Donny Anderson had his punt blocked and returned and the Rams scored to win the game right after. Lombardi tried to control his wrath. When he faced the Rams two weeks later his special teams responded. Why? Because as a head coach he understood that NO stone should be overlooked.

Yup. After a few days I truly think LaFleur is just an idiot. It’s tough to argue with his record as a HC but you just can’t go through the season the way we did knowing this was a problem since week 3 and do nothing.

I find it hard to believe Drayton was fired in season and I find it even harder to believe LaFleur didn’t try to step in and fix STs. I wouldn’t be shocked if he is just as clueless a coach as Drayton is when it comes to STs and that’s why he didn’t recognize a change needed to be made.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It might make sense to draft a good kick returner who proved it in college, rather than relegating the duties to the fifth wr or cb. It may also make sense to hire a special teams coordinator who has a record of success, not somebody who was part of a failed system like Drayton. Just saying a little bit of competence would go a long way towards fixing the anvil of a special teams around the Packer's necks

I think a lot of us had hoped for an investment into a return specialist, whether its via Free Agency or the draft. In Gute's defense, I think he might have been thinking he was getting that with Amari Rodgers, at least on punts.

No doubt that their is going to be a close eye on special teams this offseason, but that eye should have been on it a lot harder the last few seasons.

 

[milani]

It might make sense to draft a good kick returner who proved it in college, rather than relegating the duties to the fifth wr or cb. It may also make sense to hire a special teams coordinator who has a record of success, not somebody who was part of a failed system like Drayton. Just saying a little bit of competence would go a long way towards fixing the anvil of a special teams around the Packer's necks

What happened with the return man we had in the Vikings game. Just a few returns but he was from the Canadian league and looked better than anyone we had in years. Will he get a shot. Cannot cost much.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What happened with the return man we had in the Vikings game. Just a few returns but he was from the Canadian league and looked better than anyone we had in years. Will he get a shot. Cannot cost much.

That was WR David Moore. He was placed on Covid list right after the Viking game I think. He then was taken off before the San Fran game and back on the Practice Squad. I don't think the Packers ever activated him for the final game.

 

[Forget Favre]

Yup. After a few days I truly think LaFleur is just an idiot. It’s tough to argue with his record as a HC but you just can’t go through the season the way we did knowing this was a problem since week 3 and do nothing.

I find it hard to believe Drayton was fired in season and I find it even harder to believe LaFleur didn’t try to step in and fix STs. I wouldn’t be shocked if he is just as clueless a coach as Drayton is when it comes to STs and that’s why he didn’t recognize a change needed to be made.

Remember what happened last year?
It was fourth and goal and instead of going for the easy three, the Pack was stopped and gave the ball back on downs.
I don't remember if that was the main reason why we lost but it was one of them.

 

[Forget Favre]

I remember when Dom Capers was still the DC and seeing tons of fans on here always blaming him when Packers lost the big games.
They never, ever blamed the players even though the players blamed themselves for the losses. They are the ones who blew the coverage or failed to tackle. Not Dom.
I see that nothing has changed.
Again, all the blame is falling on the coach.
The coach can only do so much.
It is up to the players to execute.
I just don't see how we can blame the coach when the players are not doing the job of blocking or the opposing team figures out a way to get past the blocks.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I just don't see how we can blame the coach when the players are not doing the job of blocking or the opposing team figures out a way to get past the blocks.

Same way some posters want to strictly blame Rodgers. Football is a team sport, with 53 active players on a roster. If you are going to come here after a 13 win season and say the coach or the QB, that will win back to back MVP's suck, then you don't really understand football. Now if you say, the coach and the QB made some mistakes in this game, I am sure they will be the first to agree with you.

 

[Pkrjones]

I remember when Dom Capers was still the DC and seeing tons of fans on here always blaming him when Packers lost the big games.
They never, ever blamed the players even though the players blamed themselves for the losses. They are the ones who blew the coverage or failed to tackle. Not Dom.
I see that nothing has changed.
Again, all the blame is falling on the coach.
The coach can only do so much.
It is up to the players to execute.
I just don't see how we can blame the coach when the players are not doing the job of blocking or the opposing team figures out a way to get past the blocks.

Are you kidding? When players repeatedly fail to block or stay in their lanes on coverage it is a systemic problem. The ST has been a dumpster-fire since week 3, and everyone knew it!!!! IF a player doesn't know the concept of blocking inside man, or that his responsibility is a particular lane the coach must either TEACH them that concept OR replace them. The problems, since week 3, are certainly correctable BUT WERE NOT!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Are you kidding? When players repeatedly fail to block or stay in their lanes on coverage it is a systemic problem. The ST has been a dumpster-fire since week 3, and everyone knew it!!!! IF a player doesn't know the concept of blocking inside man, or that his responsibility is a particular lane the coach must either TEACH them that concept OR replace them. The problems, since week 3, are certainly correctable BUT WERE NOT!

I won't answer for FF...but I think most of us are in agreement about the Special Teams Coach.

 

[Voyageur]

Special teams aren't very special in GB. They actually suck!

It's time to evaluate how they're arriving at a roster that seems to be devoid of guys capable of playing on that team. You'd think there'd be a lot of guys with nominal talent, trying to hang on in the league, who would give their left ******** to be part of the group that made it happen right!

 

[Forget Favre]

Are you kidding? When players repeatedly fail to block or stay in their lanes on coverage it is a systemic problem. The ST has been a dumpster-fire since week 3, and everyone knew it!!!! IF a player doesn't know the concept of blocking inside man, or that his responsibility is a particular lane the coach must either TEACH them that concept OR replace them. The problems, since week 3, are certainly correctable BUT WERE NOT!

Like I said, maybe the other teams figure out ways to beat our ST players.
Perhaps replace the players with better and more talented ones.

I dunno if we can quote articles with links but I did find one that suggested the blame could be on the long snapper.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Like I said, maybe the other teams figure out ways to beat our ST players.
Perhaps replace the players with better and more talented ones.

I dunno if we can quote articles with links but I did find one that suggested the blame could be on the long snapper.

I think we all bought the excuses about the long snapper, but when the mistakes extended beyond him and moved to the holder, the returner, the blocker, the kicker, etc. it comes back to coaching. I also don't think enough has been said about how very little success the special teams has had. Much like how much the defense put up with having 1 out of 4 decent LB's every year and a rotation of first round CB's fail, finally Capers was fired and slowly things have improved through Petting and now Barry.

Are there some personnel issues on special teams? Of course there are, but I remember Drayton talking about how guys are playing much better and this just needed some time. Well...times up!

 

[Forget Favre]

I think we all bought the excuses about the long snapper, but when the mistakes extended beyond him and moved to the holder, the returner, the blocker, the kicker, etc. it comes back to coaching. I also don't think enough has been said about how very little success the special teams has had. Much like how much the defense put up with having 1 out of 4 decent LB's every year and a rotation of first round CB's fail, finally Capers was fired and slowly things have improved through Petting and now Barry.

Are there some personnel issues on special teams? Of course there are, but I remember Drayton talking about how guys are playing much better and this just needed some time. Well...times up!

I'll be honest.
I really wasn't paying much attention to the ST woes during the reg. season.
I was not under the impression that it cost us games as it did in our recent playoff loss.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'll be honest.
I really wasn't paying much attention to the ST woes during the reg. season.
I was not under the impression that it cost us games as it did in our recent playoff loss.

Well..Well...this is all very simple then....."You are Fired!"

OMG...the special teams was an ongoing problem all season, that seemed to be ramping up. Many of us calling for Drayton's head midseason, a few saying "its going to cost us in a big game." Sadly, we were all right.

 

[Forget Favre]

Well..Well...this is all very simple then....."You are Fired!"

OMG...the special teams was an ongoing problem all season, that seemed to be ramping up. Many of us calling for Drayton's head midseason, a few saying "its going to cost us in a big game." Sadly, we were all right.

Fired?
And they say that honesty is the best policy or that the truth will set you free?
Yeah, free as in getting fired.
Next time I'll lie.
LOL

For now I still see the coach getting scapegoated.
But what do any of us really know since we are just watchers and arm chair judges instead of players and FO workers or even a water boy?

 

[OldSchool101]

I have posted a ton of different stats supporting the notion that Crosby has been an average kicker at best for most of his career for several years.

It doesn't matter as for some odd reason a lot of Packers fans seem to ignore that, something they wouldn't do for any other player on the roster.

With that being said, that's solely true for the regular season, he has been excellent in the playoffs.

I’m not opposed to going after a change at Kicker. I agree that there is no need to pay him top 10 Kicker $$ for Mediocre performance. We csn save a couple Million for that.
One solution would be to offer him a bit less money and we could still have a competition at the position. Much like we did at Punter

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I’m not opposed to going after a change at Kicker. I agree that there is no need to pay him top 10 Kicker $$ for Mediocre performance. We csn save a couple Million for that.
One solution would be to offer him a bit less money and we could still have a competition at the position. Much like we did at Punter

I'm from the Old School I would rather have THE best kicker in the NFL, even if its a million more than the next guy. How much does a Million buy you in the NFL? Basically, not a whole lot. Maybe a free agent journeyman....kicker? I know...I know...that is more than what Rasul Douglas cost us, but Rasul Douglas is an exception, not the rule. One or 2 bad kicks can cost you a game or 2 and that could cost you the playoffs. How many starting players did we lose and how many games were lost due to losing them? I can only count 1 and that was Rodgers and the Chiefs game.

 

[milani]

That was WR David Moore. He was placed on Covid list right after the Viking game I think. He then was taken off before the San Fran game and back on the Practice Squad. I don't think the Packers ever activated him for the final game.

I hope he gets a shot next year.

 

[tynimiller]

I want to share 5 players whose skillset and depth on the team to me are the types of guys you MUST play on special teams and yet we failed to do so:

Lucas Patrick - 14.78% of the ST snaps. Now I get it there were times we were no doubt trying to not risk OL getting hurt so we didn't use (MASSIVE DOWNFALL FROM OL INJURIES FOR SURE) but an experienced blocker and versatile like he is, there is no excuse for him not being part of them much.

Allen Lazard - This is ABSURD and there better be a damn good reason why he never saw time on them because we all know in the game against the Niners he approached Drayton after the 49ers 68 yard return that he wanted to play coverage unit so that didn't happen again....what happens over the course of the 2021 season? Lazard played on only 23 snaps or 5.31% of ST snaps. LUDACRIS, INSANE and IGNORANT. Here you have a guy that excels at blocking for WR, has a killer instinct to WANT TO play coverage and we refuse essentially?

Kevin King and Chandon Sullivan - Both good sized, experienced defensive backs.....I put both of them in here because I get if with Jaire out and King's injury history perhaps not shoving both out there more but to have King only play 7.16% and Sully 7.39% of the ST snaps is absurd. When your ST's suck, you put more and more quality depth or even starters in there. Get the job done, or be done with the job Drayton.

Tipa Galeai - He played 13.86%...now some of this is due to he wasn't always on gameday rosters, but when he was I truly think a guy with his skillset and such needed seen more on ST. However, to understand this some it must be noted our Edge defenders were going down like flies...and to risk more almost was worse than an OL going down.


Injuries hurt and they truly compounded our ST woes for sure...but Lazard and Sullivan both should have been out there more without blinking.