Should Rodgers have left?

XPack

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I think the MM/AR relationship is not balanced. No QB is above coaching and MM should work with AR to fix some obvious flaws like holding on to ball too much, waiting till last second of snap count etc and making him more efficient.
On flip side, MM's playcalling also needs improvement and he needs to get AR12 input on when to push/fold.
 
D

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Our front office is terrible and our HC is someone who is where he is because he had #12 to fall back on to save his bacon. But realistically, Rogers chose the money and (I hope) the fan support over rings, so he likely will not see another one.

The Packers current front office has been in place for less than a year. It would be smart to give them some time before evaluating their moves. Rodgers signed an extension because he wants to spend the rest of his career in Green Bay, he would have made more money not agreeing to it in the long haul.

The only clear regression I have seen is him holding on to the ball longer than normal.

It has taken Rodgers an average of 2.68 seconds to throw the ball this season. That is on par with his MVP seasons in 2011 (2.64) and '14 (2.66).

The other recent one was abandoning the running game after two series when we were averaging 5ypc against the worst run D in the league.

The Packers averaged 3.1 yards per carry during their first two drives vs. the Lions. Yet McCarthy ran the ball on four of the first five plays of the team's third drive while being down by 17. Unfortunately Crosby missed another field goal on it.

Pretty sure AR is drawing that same comparison, at least privately, which is why he raked us over the coals for the cash despite knowing it means he will never get another top tier O-Line as a direct result.

The Packers offensive line is and has been one of the best pass blocking units in the league for several years.

Still not so sure why so many are convinced that Jordy was done producing, maybe this is why #12 is still so pissed off? :whistling:

On a not so good Raider team (1-4), Jordy's 5 game stats:

20 catches on 28 targets.
317 yards for a 15.9/catch average
3 TD's

Nelson's numbers are a bit skewed because of his impressive performance against the Dolphins though. He didn't reach 50 receiving yards in any of the other four games.

But its not like he is the first decent Packer we have let go to save a couple bucks on our enormous cap space, only to see perform at a high level for a good while on another roster.

The Packers don't have enormous cap space by any means.

Brady also plays for less than his worth because his wife makes bank and he wants a line in front of him, but that's a separate discussion. I hate the Evil Empire, but that's a level of dedication to the game I have to respect.

It is another discussion ... but I’m really tired of people making the silly statement that Brady willingly takes less money because of how much his wife makes. Setting aside the fact that celebrity marriages rarely last... I highly doubt that Tom has direct access to any of his wife’s money.

Please could we stop agreeing with the myth that Brady is taking less money for the Patriots to stay competitive.
 

Phazael

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First of all, no team that is high in the running for most penalties is the best O-Line, especially one that has let not one but two pro bowlers walk in the last couple years. Our pass blocking looks a little better this year because Graham knows how to block and the new RBs are actually picking up the blitz, so its not as bad as the last two years. But a fair amount of that can be chalked up to a lack of run pass balance in the playcalling and a lack of discipline in practice (12 being hurt and not practicing most of the week likely hurts here too), which is a coaching issue. Last week, we looked great.... against that terrible Lions pass rush, so maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. But there is a timing issue that's making the protection inconsistent from week to week.

And how skewed are Nelsons numbers when we have a sure HOF QB and played the Bills and Deadskins in the same stretch? You know what Cobb has that Nelson doesn't? A three drop game. So yeah, Nelson might have a couple games where he was held to 50 yards receiving on an abjectly terrible team, but he is STILL doing better than just about anyone on our roster aside from Adams. If anything the numbers are skewed AGAINST him because he does not have Rodgers throwing to him.

And no, now with Teddy the Ghost gone, we don't have the ridiculous cap room we were carrying before. Chalk some of that up to overpaying Clayfaker, burning through three TE Free Agents when the first one was perfectly good, and of course AR deciding "screw it, at least I am going to get paid" this year (byproduct of that ridiculous Cousins contract). But if they were seriously considering Mack, then obviously we have room in there somewhere.

Rodgers holding the ball too long on plays started up again this past Sunday. And talk about skewing numbers, if you mix his rocket ball releases from the Bears game with this one, yeah the average looks good. But clearly at least one of his fumbles was the direct result of him holding the ball too long, which my gut tells me is a lack of trust with the newer receivers. Time will correct some of that, but we have seen this from him before and its the biggest knock on him right now, in my view. We don't know how often he is audibling out of 1yd run up the gut plays (and last week we needed more of those, frankly), but we can see his hesitancy with holding the ball and not taking what the D was offering him. That's a concern that falls entirely on him and if he cannot practice all week, its going to be harder to correct.

Overall, the most worrying thing in this season is the whack a mole nature of our problems. The three things that have been consistently bad have been the slow starts, the complete absence of linebacker play, and too many deep pass plays when five and diming would do just fine. Oh, and late game D collapse, but considering how little there is to work with and its year one of a new system, I can accept that as growing pains. The other issues have been random and isolated, like our pass coverage, kicking, late game offense petering out, dropped passes, and turnovers. To me, this points to a lack of both concentration and fundamentals. That ALWAYS points back to coaching. Yeah maybe you can blame Philbin's return, but having seen this over and over, plus AR finally getting fed up with it publicly, its not rocket science who the problem is here. But lucky for us, AR chose to stay and stick it out, plus his contract is so massive even the Mighty McDoofus can't toss him under the bus like he does to everyone else. I see the front office making changes and many are good, I just hope they get the literal elephant in the room too.

As for the Brady thing, no one knows for sure but him. But unless he really is a "system QB" under Darth Bellicheat, I struggle to find a reason as to why a guy with his stats, rings, and experience would consistently take below top pay at his position. I am open to other theories on that one, honestly. Maybe Bill deflates his balls for him as part of his contract...…..
 

XPack

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No. As a team we've never 'sucked' to a level that AR would consider leaving. We have always been a genuine title contender and only the last 2 seasons where TT halted all team improvements has made us stagnant.
 

Phazael

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I am prepared to accept some stink from the legacy of Teddy the Ghost (The kittens are still shaking off the leftover stench of the Matt Millen era), but I feel like this was a chance to totally clean house at once and get a good fresh run at a ring in the time we have left with AR. Unless you are the evil empire and actually getting to the SB every other year, a dozen years with the sole appearance being eight years past is too long. We have been, at best, a Martyball team ever since that Cinderella year with every season being a further slide back into the Forrest Greg years. The guy (MM) needed to be gone after Seattle debacle, but here we are doing the same old dance again this year with less spring in our step.....
 

RRyder

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First of all, no team that is high in the running for most penalties is the best O-Line, especially one that has let not one but two pro bowlers walk in the last couple years. Our pass blocking looks a little better this year because Graham knows how to block and the new RBs are actually picking up the blitz, so its not as bad as the last two years. But a fair amount of that can be chalked up to a lack of run pass balance in the playcalling and a lack of discipline in practice (12 being hurt and not practicing most of the week likely hurts here too), which is a coaching issue. Last week, we looked great.... against that terrible Lions pass rush, so maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. But there is a timing issue that's making the protection inconsistent from week to week.

And how skewed are Nelsons numbers when we have a sure HOF QB and played the Bills and Deadskins in the same stretch? You know what Cobb has that Nelson doesn't? A three drop game. So yeah, Nelson might have a couple games where he was held to 50 yards receiving on an abjectly terrible team, but he is STILL doing better than just about anyone on our roster aside from Adams. If anything the numbers are skewed AGAINST him because he does not have Rodgers throwing to him.

And no, now with Teddy the Ghost gone, we don't have the ridiculous cap room we were carrying before. Chalk some of that up to overpaying Clayfaker, burning through three TE Free Agents when the first one was perfectly good, and of course AR deciding "screw it, at least I am going to get paid" this year (byproduct of that ridiculous Cousins contract). But if they were seriously considering Mack, then obviously we have room in there somewhere.

Rodgers holding the ball too long on plays started up again this past Sunday. And talk about skewing numbers, if you mix his rocket ball releases from the Bears game with this one, yeah the average looks good. But clearly at least one of his fumbles was the direct result of him holding the ball too long, which my gut tells me is a lack of trust with the newer receivers. Time will correct some of that, but we have seen this from him before and its the biggest knock on him right now, in my view. We don't know how often he is audibling out of 1yd run up the gut plays (and last week we needed more of those, frankly), but we can see his hesitancy with holding the ball and not taking what the D was offering him. That's a concern that falls entirely on him and if he cannot practice all week, its going to be harder to correct.

Overall, the most worrying thing in this season is the whack a mole nature of our problems. The three things that have been consistently bad have been the slow starts, the complete absence of linebacker play, and too many deep pass plays when five and diming would do just fine. Oh, and late game D collapse, but considering how little there is to work with and its year one of a new system, I can accept that as growing pains. The other issues have been random and isolated, like our pass coverage, kicking, late game offense petering out, dropped passes, and turnovers. To me, this points to a lack of both concentration and fundamentals. That ALWAYS points back to coaching. Yeah maybe you can blame Philbin's return, but having seen this over and over, plus AR finally getting fed up with it publicly, its not rocket science who the problem is here. But lucky for us, AR chose to stay and stick it out, plus his contract is so massive even the Mighty McDoofus can't toss him under the bus like he does to everyone else. I see the front office making changes and many are good, I just hope they get the literal elephant in the room too.

As for the Brady thing, no one knows for sure but him. But unless he really is a "system QB" under Darth Bellicheat, I struggle to find a reason as to why a guy with his stats, rings, and experience would consistently take below top pay at his position. I am open to other theories on that one, honestly. Maybe Bill deflates his balls for him as part of his contract...…..

I checked out of reading this post after this part as I just cant take the analysis of anybody that thinks Graham is a reason for better pass blocking seriously

Not like the Packers haven't had one of the best pass blocking units for years. Nope its because Jimmy ****ing Graham has been a lynchpin despite him being an absolute trainwreck of a blocker.

Not sure how that works but huzzah!!!
 

Phazael

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Common man, don't be obtuse. We have not had a good chip blocking TE in years and Graham knows how to do that. It helps. ANYTHING that delays pass rush helps. Its actually an area Cook was lacking in. And I also mentioned the new RBs are better at picking up blitzes, unlike say Fumblekowski (so glad we saved a couple bucks on that guy/sarcasm off)
 
H

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Our pass blocking looks a little better this year because Graham knows how to block....
LOL. The correct statment would be that Graham knows how to chip and tries to get in somebody's way.
 
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RRyder

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[QUOTE="Phazael, post: 792662, member: 13193"Our pass blocking looks a little better this year because Graham knows how to block....
LOL. The correct statment would be that Graham knows how to chip and tries to get in somebody's way.[/QUOTE]

Correct statement would be "he sometimes tries to get in someone's way.... Not often and not well but every now and then he tries"
 
H

HardRightEdge

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The Packers don't have enormous cap space by any means.
The NFLPA shows $6.9 mil in cap space, which is interesting because on 9/24 it was $12.0 mil.

It's hard to account for where that $5 mil went. I don't think a lag in reporting accounts for it. Maybe arcane provitions in certain contracts that are now docked. Wilkerson going to IR triggering something? Dunno. But it sure ain't going anywhere but down between now and the end of the season.
Correct statement would be "he sometimes tries to get in someone's way.... Not often and not well but every now and then he tries"

Correct statement would be "he sometimes tries to get in someone's way.... Not often and not well but every now and then he tries"[/QUOTE]
I didn't even comment on how often he actually stays in to pass block. Somewhere around nil. Maybe a screen to the opposite side or a called short timing pass where he's called upon to stand up and go "boo!".
 
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swhitset

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Please could we stop agreeing with the myth that Brady is taking less money for the Patriots to stay competitive.
I certainly hope you aren’t referring to me. Since I most certainly do not nor did not agree with it.
 

gbgary

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It has taken Rodgers an average of 2.68 seconds to throw the ball this season. That is on par with his MVP seasons in 2011 (2.64) and '14 (2.66).

not being as mobile has skewed that timing. as he's gotten better the ball holding has increased.

Please could we stop agreeing with the myth that Brady is taking less money for the Patriots to stay competitive.

i think that it's more that the old Bill WON'T give him more money so they can stay competitive. if offered up he'd take it.
 
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D

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First of all, no team that is high in the running for most penalties is the best O-Line, especially one that has let not one but two pro bowlers walk in the last couple years. Our pass blocking looks a little better this year because Graham knows how to block and the new RBs are actually picking up the blitz, so its not as bad as the last two years. But a fair amount of that can be chalked up to a lack of run pass balance in the playcalling and a lack of discipline in practice (12 being hurt and not practicing most of the week likely hurts here too), which is a coaching issue.

And no, now with Teddy the Ghost gone, we don't have the ridiculous cap room we were carrying before.

As for the Brady thing, no one knows for sure but him. But unless he really is a "system QB" under Darth Bellicheat, I struggle to find a reason as to why a guy with his stats, rings, and experience would consistently take below top pay at his position.

It's true the Packers offensive line takes too many penalties but that doesn't change the fact they're one of the best pass blocking units in the league. It's ridiculous to credit Graham having anything to do with it. The lack of a balanced run attack makes it even more difficult to successfully protect Rodgers.

The Packers carried over less than $4 million of cap space from Thompson's last season as general manager into this one. The team never had enormous cap space with TT being in charge either.

I have posted that on several occasions on this forum but it's simpl not true that Brady has taken less money for the Patriots to stay competitve:

If we take a look at combined cap hits since 2008 (once Rodgers was paid as a starter) and include the next two seasons both are still under contract Rodgers will have accounted for a total of $181.1 million of cap space over 12 seasons (that number already includes Rodgers' new deal). Over the same period the Patriots will have used $182.2 million of their cap space on Brady.

The NFLPA shows $6.9 mil in cap space, which is interesting because on 9/24 it was $12.0 mil.

It's hard to account for where that $5 mil went. I don't think a lag in reporting accounts for it. Maybe arcane provitions in certain contracts that are now docked. Wilkerson going to IR triggering something? Dunno. But it sure ain't going

That's truly weird as I can't think of any move costing the Packers $5 million in cap space since the start of the season.

I certainly hope you aren’t referring to me. Since I most certainly do not nor did not agree with it.

No, I wasn't referring to you.

i think that it more that the old Bill WON'T give him more money so they can stay competitive. if offered up he'd take it.

See above.
 
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