Safeties

[Dylan Hoppe]

Let me throw one more out there...I'm on board with Hyde playing some safety...but, what are people's thoughts on Tramon Williams moving there (and we draft a corner in the first round). Here me out. He's a willing tackler, especially the last 8 games last year (all we really want is to get the ball carrier down when playing the FS spot). That play he made in the playoffs against San Fran is exactly the type of "baiting" / anticipation that we need back there. He's a smart player, experienced, and I never thought of him as a guy that could move to safety, but when he played Kaepernick the way he did on that play, it brought the thought to my mind.

Interesting, interesting... They will shoot you down here but that could be a nice move. He isn't prototype size but it might work. I would have to see some more tape on his zone play to make a decision on how I'd feel about that move.


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[brandon2348]

If the big problem with your Safety spot is that you can't cover the back end, then how is drafting another guy that can't cover the back end improving your defense? You hitter fetish guys **** me off. Love Buchannon, but fact is he doesn't fix our problems, and therefore does not make us a better football team.

BTW Buchannon to NE in the 1st.

Let me ask you this. Does Kam Chancellor **** you off?

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Cause what I saw in the 49'er game last year was Vernon Davis beat Burnett on seam route that helped cost game.

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pathetic, and lets just say I was pissed off.

 

[FrankRizzo]

If the big problem with your Safety spot is that you can't cover the back end, then how is drafting another guy that can't cover the back end improving your defense? You hitter fetish guys **** me off. Love Buchannon, but fact is he doesn't fix our problems, and therefore does not make us a better football team.

Define what makes Bucannon not a good cover guy back there?
Just because he also can pound someone, doesn't mean he doesn't have the sideline-to-sideline speed, quickness or agility to cover the back end.

If his play, the film doesn't convince you? What will?

How about this: http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft/combine/_/id/93
Bucannon is stronger by a lot, more physical yes than Clinton-Dix, everyone's poster boy this year at FS, since he's from Bama.
But Bucannon, who's only from Washington State, despite being stronger, is also faster in the 40, quicker in the 3-cone, and jumps higher, but the vertical and the broad jump.

I know most y'all in Big Ten country rarely have watched a Washington State game, but like San Jose St, Fresno, BYU, Utah, etc. they also have some good players out there on the Left Coast.

BTW, Brock Vereen, with good bloodlines and good character, is a sleeper to keep an eye on. He's extremely quick, and strong.
He's a good football player, and as many scouts were talking to him as they were his Golden Gopher teammate Ra'Shede Hageman.

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[brandon2348]

Define what makes Bucannon not a good cover guy back there?
Just because he also can pound someone, doesn't mean he doesn't have the sideline-to-sideline speed, quickness or agility to cover the back end.

If his play, the film doesn't convince you? What will?

How about this: http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft/combine/_/id/93
Bucannon is stronger by a lot, more physical yes than Clinton-Dix, everyone's poster boy this year at FS, since he's from Bama.
But Bucannon, who's only from Washington State, despite being stronger, is also faster in the 40, quicker in the 3-cone, and jumps higher, but the vertical and the broad jump.

I know most y'all in Big Ten country rarely have watched a Washington State game, but like San Jose St, Fresno, BYU, Utah, etc. they also have some good players out there on the Left Coast.

BTW, Brock Vereen, with good bloodlines and good character, is a sleeper to keep an eye on. He's extremely quick, and strong.
He's a good football player, and as many scouts were talking to him as they were his Golden Gopher teammate Ra'Shede Hageman.

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Yeah and Bama DB's have't really been crushing it in the NFL lately. Bucannon held together a defense that was so bad It's hard to put into words. Kam Chancellor came out and said Bucannon is best safety in draft.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Let me throw one more out there...I'm on board with Hyde playing some safety...but, what are people's thoughts on Tramon Williams moving there (and we draft a corner in the first round). Here me out. He's a willing tackler, especially the last 8 games last year (all we really want is to get the ball carrier down when playing the FS spot). That play he made in the playoffs against San Fran is exactly the type of "baiting" / anticipation that we need back there. He's a smart player, experienced, and I never thought of him as a guy that could move to safety, but when he played Kaepernick the way he did on that play, it brought the thought to my mind.

Major problem I would foresee is that Williams has already lost some of the strength in one arm permanently so I'm not sure how much he would enjoy/be effective at playing a downhill position like safety. He'd be very good in coverage but the majority of teams in the NFL (Packers included) prefer to have safeties that can play both free and strong safety. Just not sure Williams is strong enough to survive playing safety for too long.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Somehow I knew you were going to remind me of that. lol. I really like Terrence Brooks too and I can see why you do as well. I am by no means saying he is another Nick Collins but if you look at his measurables and combine numbers there very comparable. He looks very fast on film and isn't afraid to mix it up. Also, He played on the national championship team and was one of the top players on a very fast, good defense. And he is a true "hybrid free safety". If TT drafts him maybe people will stop talking about him not getting Jarius Byrd.

I would be so happy if our first three rounds went like this.

1. CJ Mosley LB

2. Terrence Brooks FS

3. Bruce Ellington WR

3. Justin Ellis DT

I think I´m actually the only one still talking about Byrd, shame on me. Would be fine with drafting Brooks in the second round. But I have to agree with HyponGrey that Ellington wouldn´t be a great fit for the Packers offense nor do I like drafting players who have climbed the draft boards in April.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Anybody have thoughts on Vinnie Sunseri? In say the 5th round? He might be the best ballhawk of all the safeties, when healthy. He's young and hurt right now, but might be a great 2nd safety to draft and stash for a year. Thoughts?

I don´t think it´s really that tough to figure out that the Packers need a free safety and not a strong one. Coming up with a different name of yet another SS doesn´t change that one bit.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He'd be very good in coverage but the majority of teams in the NFL (Packers included) prefer to have safeties that can play both free and strong safety.

No, they don´t. The only reason teams come out with a ridiculous statement like that is because they won´t tell the media that they know that both of their safeties $uck big time. Take a look at the Seahawks defense, Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas don´t change positions because they dominate at their respective position.

 

[brandon2348]

I don´t think it´s really that tough to figure out that the Packers need a free safety and not a strong one. Coming up with a different name of yet another SS doesn´t change that one bit.

Well a strong safety is needed too IMO whether Burnett is under big "dead money" contract or not. In some ways I have more confidence in Hyde moving to free safety then Burnett improving from last season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Let me ask you this. Does Kam Chancellor **** you off?

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Cause what I saw in the 49'er game last year was Vernon Davis beat Burnett on seam route helped cost game.

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pathetic, and lets just say I was pissed off.

Take a closer look at the play and you´ll realize why I don´t want Burnett to line up at FS. The Packers are in a Cover-2 scheme there with Burnett and Jennings responsible to each cover half of the field. But Burnett is late diagnosing the pass intended for Davis and is a split second late to defend the pass.

Perfect example why I don´t want him to play FS.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well a strong safety is needed too IMO whether Burnett is under big "dead money" contract or not. In some ways I have more confidence in Hyde moving to free safety then Burnett improving from last season.

I think Burnett can be a decent SS as long as he´s paired with a reliable FS.

 

[brandon2348]

I think Burnett can be a decent SS as long as he´s paired with a reliable FS.

Well see. He will still have to take a deep half on cover 2 as SS. They will still run some cover 2 I would think. I also saw him getting run over and knocked backwards last year as well on multiple occasions. Everyone was so high on him last year and up to this point the whole situation has been a major disappointment. I really wish he didn't have that contract.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well see. He will still have to take a deep half on cover 2 as SS. They will still run some cover 2 I would think. I also saw him getting run over and knocked backwards last year as well on multiple occasions. Everyone was so high on him last year and up to this point the whole situation has been a major disappointment. I really wish he didn't have that contract.

With a great FS it´s possible to play with only one single safety high, meaning the other safety is able to line up closer to the LOS and provide help in the run game. Of course there will be situation in which the team would play a Cover-2 defense but it wouldn´t have to be the norm.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

No, they don´t. The only reason teams come out with a ridiculous statement like that is because they won´t tell the media that they know that both of their safeties $uck big time. Take a look at the Seahawks defense, Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas don´t change positions because they dominate at their respective position.

The Seahawks are a terrible example for how teams want to allocate their safeties. They have the best free safety in the ENTIRE league, why would they want him to ever play strong safety? They've built the entire back end of their defense around Thomas' ability to play two routes at once. Unfortunately, most teams (31 actually) don't have the best free safety in the NFL and therefore like to have the option of confusing offenses by moving safeties around.

 

[brandon2348]

With a great FS it´s possible to play with only one single safety high, meaning the other safety is able to line up closer to the LOS and provide help in the run game. Of course there will be situation in which the team would play a Cover-2 defense but it wouldn´t have to be the norm.

I get it, like an Early Thomas flying around back there. Those guys are hard to find. Thomas has 4.3 speed and a very high football IQ. I don't see Dix or Pryor in the same class. Terrence Brooks looks like the closest thing to that IMO considering his combine numbers and film.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Seahawks are a terrible example for how teams want to allocate their safeties. They have the best free safety in the ENTIRE league, why would they want him to ever play strong safety?

Exactly, if you have a great free safety you don´t want him to play SS.

They've built the entire back end of their defense around Thomas' ability to play two routes at once. Unfortunately, most teams (31 actually) don't have the best free safety in the NFL and therefore like to have the option of confusing offenses by moving safeties around.

No, they don´t like to have that option, they have to do out of necessity.

 

[brandon2348]

Thomas is the Seahawks best defender. He makes everyone look better back there. There defense would be completely different without him.

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

Take a closer look at the play and you´ll realize why I don´t want Burnett to line up at FS. The Packers are in a Cover-2 scheme there with Burnett and Jennings responsible to each cover half of the field. But Burnett is late diagnosing the pass intended for Davis and is a split second late to defend the pass.

Perfect example why I don´t want him to play FS.

Honestly I respect your opinion more than anyone else on the thread because you always know the evidence to back up your claims.. I wanna hear what you think about Tramon playing a sole FS role... He has the speed and coverage skills.. What do you think captain? I would actually consider that move better than putting Hyde in the role.


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[brandon2348]

I know you asked for Captains opinion but that would make us even less physical back there.

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

I know you asked for Captains opinion but that would make us even less physical back there.

It's not as much about physicality in the back end at FS. It's more about coverage skills and hands IMO. Would you be okay with having Tramon at FS and Pryor at SS? You're never stuck with a player. If Burnett isn't a viable starter then we get rid of him and take the hit on a bad decision. Look at Flynn's little joyride around the league.


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[HyponGrey]

He isn't much of an athlete, would have to play in the box. He reminds me of McMillian with better ball skills.


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Except McMillian was a great athlete with the instincts of a LB trying to play S

 

[HyponGrey]

Let me throw one more out there...I'm on board with Hyde playing some safety...but, what are people's thoughts on Tramon Williams moving there (and we draft a corner in the first round). Here me out. He's a willing tackler, especially the last 8 games last year (all we really want is to get the ball carrier down when playing the FS spot). That play he made in the playoffs against San Fran is exactly the type of "baiting" / anticipation that we need back there. He's a smart player, experienced, and I never thought of him as a guy that could move to safety, but when he played Kaepernick the way he did on that play, it brought the thought to my mind.

NO. Tray is a boundary CB who had to do spot work in the slot last year. His set wouldn't translate well.

 

[brandon2348]

It's not as much about physicality in the back end at FS. It's more about coverage skills and hands IMO. Would you be okay with having Tramon at FS and Pryor at SS? You're never stuck with a player. If Burnett isn't a viable starter then we get rid of him and take the hit on a bad decision. Look at Flynn's little joyride around the league.


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Well there are just so many variables. First, we don't know what TT, McCarthy and Capers are really thinking. They have a much firmer idea of what Hyde can do and what Williams can do. A lot of it comes down to what there looking for and scheme wise what they feel fits best with available talent. I am okay with anything that works. I don't personally think the answer is moving Williams to safety. Going back to last year I see anything being an improvement over the combination of McMillian, Jennings, Burnett. I wouldn't be surprised if they left Burnett at Free safety and moved Hyde over to compete and brought in a strong safety. The reason being is I don't see a clear cut guarantee free safety available that can do the things Captain suggests. If Hyde beats out Burnett then you have a back up that can play both safety spots.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Honestly I respect your opinion more than anyone else on the thread because you always know the evidence to back up your claims.. I wanna hear what you think about Tramon playing a sole FS role... He has the speed and coverage skills.. What do you think captain? I would actually consider that move better than putting Hyde in the role.

I´m not a fan of moving Williams to FS. He has played outside his entire career, so I don´t think he possesses the natural instincts asked of in a FS. While I don´t think Hyde should be the only plan at FS I´d rather have him making the move than Tramon.

 

[HyponGrey]

Let me ask you this. Does Kam Chancellor **** you off?


Cause what I saw in the 49'er game last year was Vernon Davis beat Burnett on seam route that helped cost game.

pathetic, and lets just say I was pissed off.

He wouldn't make us a better team.

Burnett's responsibility was to shadow Boldin on that play. If that play really ****** you off that much, you might want to think about drafting a guy that keeps that from happening EVERY DOWN because Burnett is covering the deep ball. Unless you don't like things like logic and just want to see a RB get blown up at the LOS while the Flanker catches a TD.