Playoffs

[Un4GivN]

Good post. This is just one example of how if the Packers were to win their remaining 5 games, they would be in the playoffs. This season is far from over.

What would be the purpose?

Even if this team wins out, they will finish 9-6-1 and gone 2-5-1 (.250) against team with a winning record. And it is even worse if we follow the above, it is 1-6-1 against teams with winning records.

This team doesn't deserve the playoffs, and needs to miss them again to get the shake-ups needed to get them back on track. My biggest fear is they sneak into the playoffs somehow and win one game and everyone jumps back on the bandwagon... The 2018 Packers team is closer to a hard knocks team than a super bowl champion.

 

[Title Town USA]

What would be the purpose?

Even if this team wins out, they will finish 9-6-1 and gone 2-5-1 (.250) against team with a winning record. And it is even worse if we follow the above, it is 1-6-1 against teams with winning records.

This team doesn't deserve the playoffs, and needs to miss them again to get the shake-ups needed to get them back on track. My biggest fear is they sneak into the playoffs somehow and win one game and everyone jumps back on the bandwagon... The 2018 Packers team is closer to a hard knocks team than a super bowl champion.

Clearly we have very different mentalities. I would never accept losing and giving up on a season. You say that they need to miss the playoffs to get the "shake-ups" that are needed. This is simply not true. If the GM feels changes are needed, they can be made regardless of the season outcome. I am thankful that Aaron Rodgers is being a great leader and agrees with me that there is still a great chance at the playoffs this year.

I loved him calling out each of the remaining 5 teams. When Aaron makes statements like these, it's usually very calculated and you can bet that he is going to do his damn best to make sure it happens. I can see his press conference statement being repeated and made into a song once they run the table and make the playoffs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What would be the purpose?

Even if this team wins out, they will finish 9-6-1 and gone 2-5-1 (.250) against team with a winning record. And it is even worse if we follow the above, it is 1-6-1 against teams with winning records.

This team doesn't deserve the playoffs, and needs to miss them again to get the shake-ups needed to get them back on track. My biggest fear is they sneak into the playoffs somehow and win one game and everyone jumps back on the bandwagon... The 2018 Packers team is closer to a hard knocks team than a super bowl champion.

I agree with you and I think both of us could be loudly boo'd by many Packer fans who think the 3 % chance for the Packers to make the playoffs means that they just need a few breaks and they are off to the races with a Super Bowl team. I just don't see this current team as that close to being able to compete and I have felt that way for awhile. I know it isn't a popular thing to say "lose out and your team will be better for it", but in this situation I think the Packers will be. I would much rather be picking in the top 10 slot of every round, than 15-31. I also think a coaching change is inevitable and needed at this point, winning 1-5 games won't change that.

Sure, I will be cheering for the Packers to win during their next 5 games, but kind of like after this last game against the Vikings, if they lose, I will silently smile and say "2019 is looking better!"

 

[Title Town USA]

The only odds the Packers need to worry about are the odds they make the playoffs IF they finish 9-6-1. The odds that 9-6-1 makes the playoffs are actually QUITE GOOD! The reason Aaron Rodgers and the Packers are focusing on this is because it clearly provides motivation and hope. "If we take care of our own business, good chance we are getting in."

 

[Arod2gjdd]

I can't believe I'm even entertaining these because the eye test says it all. It says that we suck and are not going anywhere this season. HOWEVER I will never root for us to lose and the scenario is actually pretty simple:

1. We must win out, this much is obvious.
2. FORGET about the Vikings. Because they hold the tiebreaker, they would have to lose three of their last five, this is not happening.
3. That leaves the Seahawks, Panthers, and NFC East runner-up (probably the Eagles) for the remaining spot.
4. So, assuming we finish at 9-6-1, the tie actually kind of works in our favor because we will have one less loss than these teams IF
5. The Seahawks go 3-2 or worse, the Panthers go 3-2 or worse, the Eagles go 4-1 or worse.
6. If all of these things happen, and they are not impossible, we would be in.
7. So, basically, winning out is a must. Then, Seattle and Carolina (who has NO twice) would both need to lose twice in their last five and Philly would have to lose just once.

That being said, this is a fruitless and even unhealthy exercise because there is really nothing to indicate we are about to go on a run. In fact, all we have proven is that we can find new and creative ways to lose game after game and play with little to no confidence when it matters most. Not to mention the injuries are finally piling up. Man, if we had squeezed out just ONE of these past four road games that we could have won, it would change the script entirely. That being said, bad teams find a way to lose. We are bad. Why do I bother? Because Go Pack Go? Go Pack Go

 

[PackerDNA]

Add Dallas or Washington needing to lose at least twice to the list.

 

[Arod2gjdd]

Add Dallas or Washington needing to lose at least twice to the list.

The NFC East winner (likely Dallas) will not affect us, they can win as much as they please. Assuming Washington will fade after losing their QB but yes.

 

[Title Town USA]

The big game to watch will be week 14 Vikings @ Seahawks. A Vikings win would probably be better for the Packers. Then all we would need from the Seahawks is a loss to the Chiefs.

 

[Title Town USA]

Another thing to root for this weekend is a Bears loss @ the Giants. Highly unlikely but would make things VERY interesting. A Bears loss would put them at 8-4, with upcoming games against the Rams and Packers, and @ Vikings last week.

Highly doubt the Giants will upset them, but it would make things extremely entertaining in the division down the stretch. Too bad Detroit couldn't close the deal on Thanksgiving!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While I do love all the optimism and I know you all are doing this with "guarded optimism" what does it say for the Packers when there are 5 games left in the season and people are already running through all of the ways they can cash in on that 3% chance of making the playoffs, which would include the Packers getting 4 wins against teams that have a combined record of 13-31?

Sorry, but I can't get too excited about The Packers season right now, they have beaten one good team, the Bears. I also don't put much stock in the Bear win, first game of the season, at home and took a big comeback to do it. The other 3 wins came at home, against teams that are currently 11-22.

At this point I am looking to 2019 and would love to see some of the younger guys get some playing time to build on for the future. Loses at this point just mean a better position in the draft and that absolutely doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Un4GivN]

Clearly we have very different mentalities. I would never accept losing and giving up on a season. You say that they need to miss the playoffs to get the "shake-ups" that are needed. This is simply not true. If the GM feels changes are needed, they can be made regardless of the season outcome. I am thankful that Aaron Rodgers is being a great leader and agrees with me that there is still a great chance at the playoffs this year.

I loved him calling out each of the remaining 5 teams. When Aaron makes statements like these, it's usually very calculated and you can bet that he is going to do his damn best to make sure it happens. I can see his press conference statement being repeated and made into a song once they run the table and make the playoffs.

Where did I say they should lose on purpose? The Packers are just not very good, and they definitely don't have to give-up to lose. They have been meddling around for years, and changes are needed.

Since 2006 (start of Mike McCarthy)
New England 13 Conference Championship games / 5 Super Bowls (New England also were at 3 of 5 Super Bowls before this)
Indy 4 Conference Championship games / 2 Super Bowls
Pittsburgh 4 Conference Championship games 2 Super Bowls
Seattle 2 Conference Championship games / 2 Super Bowls
Denver 2 Conference Championship games / 2 Super Bowls
Baltimore 5 Conference Championship games/ 1 Super Bowl
Green Bay 4 Conference Championship games / 1 Super Bowl

So since that 2006... New England, Seattle, Baltimore, Indy, Pitt, Denver... Have all been more successful if you look at end results.

At best, the Packers are the 7th best in that time frame. Which is pretty underwhelming when the fan base thinks they have the best quarterback in the history of EVER on their team. Making the playoffs again just to lose this year would be the end to another mediocre wasted season.

 

[Pkrjones]

...Since 2006 (start of Mike McCarthy)
New England 13 Conference Championship games / 5 Super Bowls (New England also were at 3 of 5 Super Bowls before this)
Indy 4 Conference Championship games / 2 Super Bowls
Pittsburgh 4 Conference Championship games 2 Super Bowls
Seattle 2 Conference Championship games / 2 Super Bowls
Denver 2 Conference Championship games / 2 Super Bowls
Baltimore 5 Conference Championship games/ 1 Super Bowl
Green Bay 4 Conference Championship games / 1 Super Bowl

So since that 2006... New England, Seattle, Baltimore, Indy, Pitt, Denver... Have all been more successful if you look at end results.

At best, the Packers are the 7th best in that time frame. Which is pretty underwhelming when the fan base thinks they have the best quarterback in the history of EVER on their team. Making the playoffs again just to lose this year would be the end to another mediocre wasted season.

Forgot NY Giants with 2 Conference Championships/2 Super Bowl wins AND Eli 2x SB MVP .

 

[Raptorman]

Even if the Bears lost 3 games, the Vikings would need to only lose one more game, which is pretty unrealistic given their schedule.

Not true. It would depend on the three games the Bears lose. All the Vikings need is to be one game back from the Bears for the final game. Which is the Bears at the Vikings. If the Bears and the Vikings tie in total wins, the Vikings take the division.

 

[Title Town USA]

Not true. It would depend on the three games the Bears lose. All the Vikings need is to be one game back from the Bears for the final game. Which is the Bears at the Vikings. If the Bears and the Vikings tie in total wins, the Vikings take the division.

I was speaking in terms of the entirety of the season, not through only week 16. Can the Vikings win the division still? Sure, but it will take a collapse by the Bears because the Vikings are definitely dropping at least 1-3 more games.

 

[Title Town USA]

Where did I say they should lose on purpose? The Packers are just not very good, and they definitely don't have to give-up to lose. They have been meddling around for years, and changes are needed.

Since 2006 (start of Mike McCarthy)
New England 13 Conference Championship games / 5 Super Bowls (New England also were at 3 of 5 Super Bowls before this)
Indy 4 Conference Championship games / 2 Super Bowls
Pittsburgh 4 Conference Championship games 2 Super Bowls
Seattle 2 Conference Championship games / 2 Super Bowls
Denver 2 Conference Championship games / 2 Super Bowls
Baltimore 5 Conference Championship games/ 1 Super Bowl
Green Bay 4 Conference Championship games / 1 Super Bowl

So since that 2006... New England, Seattle, Baltimore, Indy, Pitt, Denver... Have all been more successful if you look at end results.

At best, the Packers are the 7th best in that time frame. Which is pretty underwhelming when the fan base thinks they have the best quarterback in the history of EVER on their team. Making the playoffs again just to lose this year would be the end to another mediocre wasted season.

”You said “they need to miss the playoffs to get the needed shakeups”. Sounds like giving up to me. I challenge you that missing the playoffs is NOT a requirement for making changes.

Looking at the history of the past 10 years has nothing to do with this season.

 

[Un4GivN]

My new live prediction...

Packers win out. The rest of the NFC conference games all end in ties.

1. Saints (10-1-5)
2. Rams (10-1-5)
3. Bears (8-4-4) Yes, 8-4-4 is better than 9-6-1
4. Cowboys (6-5-5)
5. Packers (9-6-1)
6. Vikings (6-4-6)

The Packers are in as the 5 seed.... Then then proceed to beat the Cowboys in Dallas by 20 behind Clay Matthews 5 sacks. Next up is to beat the Saints in NO, behind 200 yards of receiving by an angry Jimmy Graham. Then travel to LA and beat them with dominant offensive line performance by Jason Spriggs who comes in for injury.

In the Super Bowl - the Packer beat KC with quick passes and superior play design on their way to the second Lombardi trophy in 10 years!

Book it folks!

 

[Un4GivN]

”You said “they need to miss the playoffs to get the needed shakeups”. Sounds like giving up to me. I challenge you that missing the playoffs is NOT a requirement for making changes.

Looking at the history of the past 10 years has nothing to do with this season.

Sorry, I apologize I didn't know I needed to further clarify this.

While you are correct, a GM can fire or make changes at anytime. I believe there is far more pressure to make changes if you finish a season 8-7-1 and miss the playoffs..

Then there is if you go 8-7-1, make the playoffs and win a game or two... If the Packers make the NFC championship game this year are you more likely to give McCarthy a pass? How many NFC championship coaches have ever been fired that same year. I would guess close to zero!

That is my point, I want the pressure to be on to make changes... This team has been mediocre year after year. Making the playoff this year would just give NO a second bye week.

 

[Title Town USA]

Sorry, I apologize I didn't know I needed to further clarify this.

While you are correct, a GM can fire or make changes at anytime. I believe there is far more pressure to make changes if you finish a season 8-7-1 and miss the playoffs..

Then there is if you go 8-7-1, make the playoffs and win a game or two... If the Packers make the NFC championship game this year are you more likely to give McCarthy a pass? How many NFC championship coaches have ever been fired that same year. I would guess close to zero!

That is my point, I want the pressure to be on to make changes... This team has been mediocre year after year. Making the playoff this year would just give NO a second bye week.

I appreciate your willingness to clarify your point. Very considerate of you.

"Making the playoffs would just give NO a second bye week"? Well, if that's the case, by the looks of things, nobody besides the Rams should be trying to make the playoffs. (and even the Rams would likely get spanked in NO.)

So should all the other teams give up as well, since they have zero chance of beating the Saints? Maybe you can further clarify.

 

[PackerDNA]

I keep reading various writers saying McCarthy needs to finish strong and make the playoffs to keep his job. Under no circumstances should bring McCarthy back next year be a consideration.

 

[Un4GivN]

I appreciate your willingness to clarify your point. Very considerate of you.

"Making the playoffs would just give NO a second bye week"? Well, if that's the case, by the looks of things, nobody besides the Rams should be trying to make the playoffs. (and even the Rams would likely get spanked in NO.)

So should all the other teams give up as well, since they have zero chance of beating the Saints? Maybe you can further clarify.

There is no need to clarify this portion, I have stated this multiple time. The Packers ARE NOT a good team. To which everyone comes back with "Look what happened in 2010!"

2010 - Lost 6 games by a combined 20 points. This is without Rodgers for a game and a half.
Won 4 games against teams with winnings records, 2 home 2 away
Defense = 2nd in points allowed / 5th yards allowed
Offense = 10th in points scored / 9th yards per game

2018 - Lost 6 games so far by a combined 48 points.
Have won 1 game against team with a winning record... Opening day at home on Sunday night and are 0-6 on the road.
Defense = 16th in points allowed / 12th in yards
Offense = 17th in points scored / 10th yards per game

I stand by what I had said, my biggest fear is the Packers back their way into the playoffs causing us to watch another year of uninspiring football.

 

[Title Town USA]

There is no need to clarify this portion, I have stated this multiple time. The Packers ARE NOT a good team. To which everyone comes back with "Look what happened in 2010!"

2010 - Lost 6 games by a combined 20 points. This is without Rodgers for a game and a half.
Won 4 games against teams with winnings records, 2 home 2 away
Defense = 2nd in points allowed / 5th yards allowed
Offense = 10th in points scored / 9th yards per game

2018 - Lost 6 games so far by a combined 48 points.
Have won 1 game against team with a winning record... Opening day at home on Sunday night and are 0-6 on the road.
Defense = 16th in points allowed / 12th in yards
Offense = 17th in points scored / 10th yards per game

I stand by what I had said, my biggest fear is the Packers back their way into the playoffs causing us to watch another year of uninspiring football.

You stated that the Packers would just provide the Saints with another bye week in the playoffs. This can be argued for ANY Team in the NFC this year. So once again, according to your theory, no team should want to make the playoffs because they are likely to be destroyed in NO. I believe as of now, the Saints have played far superior to ANY TEAM in the NFC. Does that mean other teams should avoid the playoffs? Hell no.

 

[Un4GivN]

You stated that the Packers would just provide the Saints with another bye week in the playoffs. This can be argued for ANY Team in the NFC this year. So once again, according to your theory, no team should want to make the playoffs because they are likely to be destroyed in NO. I believe as of now, the Saints have played far superior to ANY TEAM in the NFC. Does that mean other teams should avoid the playoffs? Hell no.

Interesting... So where did I say every other NFC team doesn't have a chance. I thought I just said the Packers would give them a bye week?

Bears, Rams, and even the Vikings have a much better chance against NO then the Packers.

The Rams are putting up 35+ a game and can beat anyone
The Bears are top 5 in scoring offense and defense
The Vikings are top 10 in scoring defense and though there offense is been up and down. They still (in my personal opinion) are a better overall team then the Packers.

 

[Title Town USA]

Interesting... So where did I say every other NFC team doesn't have a chance.

The point is NO TEAM in the NFC has shown an ability to compete with the Saints. We've already seen the Vikings get beat up by the Saints in Minnesota. You think that's going to change in NO? We've already seen a double-digit victory by the Saints over the Rams, who I think have clearly been the SECOND BEST team in the NFC. If the second-best team in the NFC lost by double digits to NO, how in the hell do you think ANY team can compete with them?

So when you say "Green Bay would be a bye week" for NO, same goes for all other teams. So, once again, according to your logic, should no teams try to make the playoffs since nobody is going to beat NO at this point?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There is no need to clarify this portion, I have stated this multiple time. The Packers ARE NOT a good team. To which everyone comes back with "Look what happened in 2010!"

2010 - Lost 6 games by a combined 20 points. This is without Rodgers for a game and a half.
Won 4 games against teams with winnings records, 2 home 2 away
Defense = 2nd in points allowed / 5th yards allowed
Offense = 10th in points scored / 9th yards per game

2018 - Lost 6 games so far by a combined 48 points.
Have won 1 game against team with a winning record... Opening day at home on Sunday night and are 0-6 on the road.
Defense = 16th in points allowed / 12th in yards
Offense = 17th in points scored / 10th yards per game

I stand by what I had said, my biggest fear is the Packers back their way into the playoffs causing us to watch another year of uninspiring football.

Agreed. It seems like some are afraid to admit your first major point, This team is just not that good. This is a 4-6-1 team that hasn't beaten anyone of note since Week 1. If this was a team that had looked pretty decent during the season and one that was getting a healthy player or 2 back from injury, which could make them highly competitive, I would be right on that "lets just make the playoffs, because we can win it all" bandwagon. But the fact of the matter is, this team isn't very good in its current state. Not even a win on the road, which is where they would be in the playoffs.

So as a Packer fan I too am looking at the Big Picture of what is best for this team going forward. Win out the season and just miss or make the playoffs or take the attitude of "this wasn't our year, what can we do over the next 5 games to improve this team for 2019?"

I don't think there is a lot that the Packers can or should do to save Coaching jobs at this point, so not even going to point to what winning or losing games the rest of the season does to that.

Sure, its great to win some games, but at what cost? Playing guys that probably won't be on the team next year, exposing AR to further major injuries, picking later in each round of the draft?

While they probably won't do what I am suggesting until they are "officially" eliminated, I would treat the rest of the season as getting ready for 2019. Get as much playing time in for the backups that will be here next year. If AR needs more time with the Rookie WR's to establish chemistry, do it safely with quick throws and not taking needless hits in the pocket. Losing games at this point isn't what a lot of Packer fans want to watch, but each loss moves you up in each round of the draft and I am OK with that.

Only problem, you probably have a Lame Duck coach making the decisions and I don't see MM wanting to do anything but throw everything he has to win now and who cares about the 2019 Packers, because he won't be around to coach them.

Take my opinion as a defeatist one, but I view it more of one of looking squarely at the reality of the situation and what is best for the teams future.

 

[SoonerPack]

Reading over some of these scenarios gets me all excited! THEN, I remember we aren't a very good football team and half the defense is injured per the usual. I think we pull out a win this week although it will probably be much closer than many expect. I am thinking something like 27-20. Yes, I am serious. Next would be the Falcons and if we are going to win that one it will have to be in shootout fashion. Jones and Ridley are a handful and we already know Sanu will be good for about 5/85/1 against us. I used to like our chances in shootouts but not so much these days. Next up, a pissed off Bears team looking to avenge their gag-job from earlier in the year. My hope is Mack gets suspended for PED's prior to this one but I think that's a longshot. Can we beat them? Yes. I just don't think we will. The J-E-T-S SHOULD be an easy dub but nothing about this season has been easy including watching the games. Week 17 we get the Lions and we will win that game. That is the game I am most sure of because Stafford is Stafford.

I don't know how I feel about the lose out or win out argument. I see both sides of it. As a competitor, I want to win every single game and see what happens. As a realist, I almost feel like not making the PO's will ensure the one thing I want most at this time which is a new HBC. One thing I know for sure: being in a position like this absolutely sucks. Wondering what kind of goofy things need to take place for us to slide in the backdoor. Debating whether it's best to win out or keep getting roasted. If ever there were a season I wish we could hit the reset button, this would be it.