Packers vs Raiders Game Thread: Sin City Slugfest Edition

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

And why do you think the offense is struggling? Would experience have anything to do with that or does experience not matter in your world?

And yeah, I remember the 80's vividly. I also remember the early 90's and late 00's. Do you?

Myers inability to not be 5 yards down field on a roll out isn't experience. Love's being 4 years in the league and having 30% accuracy on balls over 10 yards isn't experience. Watson over running a ball and Love under throwing a ball isn't experience, that particular problem is chemistry and preparation. Are you telling me QBs and WRs don't talk anymore? Musgrave's issues right now seem to be that he's just a ******* rookie loaded with talent, so yeah that's experience.

 

[Magooch]

This is not a season to be worrying about the win column. What we are aiming for is improvement from our young offense between Week 1 and Week 18. There's still a long way to go.

I’d generally agree with this, but what I find worrisome is that we’re a quarter - nearly a third - of the way through the season and I think you could probably make a stronger case right now that we’ve regressed on offense rather than improved thus far.

Ultimately as you say what counts is that we’ve improved by season’s end, but I think you’d also like to see that come by way of incremental improvements week-to-week and I’m not sure we’re really seeing that yet…

If we end up noticeably improved by the time week 18 rolls around that’s fine. And there’s going to be ups and downs, sometimes it’s two steps forward one step back… but if we’re worse in week 5 than in week 4 and were worse in week 4 than we were in week 3 and so on… then it’s hard to see a very clear pathway to ending the season improved overall, I guess.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Myers inability to not be 5 yards down field on a roll out isn't experience.

Myers sucks and needs to be replaced.

Love's being 4 years in the league and having 30% accuracy on balls over 10 yards isn't experience.

And you think being on the sidelines is the same experience as being on the field? That's B.S.

Watson over running a ball and Love under throwing a ball isn't experience, that particular problem is chemistry and preparation.

And chemistry comes with time and experience playing together. Hell, it wasn't until Adams's third season before him and Rodgers really got on the same page. A LOT of people were calling Adams a bust in his second season.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Myers sucks and needs to be replaced.



And you think being on the sidelines is the same experience as being on the field? That's B.S.



And chemistry comes with time and experience playing together. Hell, it wasn't until Adams's third season before him and Rodgers really got on the same page.

what I'm hearing is this:

1.) You expect quarterbacks to do NO work on mechanics or footwork any place other than on the playing field during game time when they're actively playing.

2.) You expect quarterbacks and wide receivers to never discuss what the other one is thinking in situations.

Dude Rodgers left, things changed.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I’d generally agree with this, but what I find worrisome is that we’re a quarter - nearly a third - of the way through the season and I think you could probably make a stronger case right now that we’ve regressed on offense rather than improved thus far.

Ultimately as you say what counts is that we’ve improved by season’s end, but I think you’d also like to see that come by way of incremental improvements week-to-week and I’m not sure we’re really seeing that yet…

Don't underestimate the loss of Jones for the past 3.5 games. The defense's job becomes a lot easier when they know you don't have an edge running threat on the field.

 

[BrokenArrow]

what I'm hearing is this:

1.) You expect quarterbacks to do NO work on mechanics or footwork any place other than on the playing field during game time when they're actively playing.

2.) You expect quarterbacks and wide receivers to never discuss what the other one is thinking in situations.

And what I'M hearing is this:

1) Running the practice team and sitting in the film room for 3 seasons is the same as real play time.

2) QBs and WRs don't need live reps together to build chemistry. They just need to talk more.

Look, I get it. You think a first year starter with 6 rookies, 3 second year guys and one below average TE in his fourth season to throw to should be playoff contenders within the first month together, even with the team's best offensive player unable to get on the field. And then there's reality...

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

And what I'M hearing is this:

1) Running the practice team and sitting in the film room for 3 seasons is the same as real play time.

2) QBs and WRs don't need live reps together to build chemistry. They just need to talk more.

Look, I get it. You think a first year starter with 6 rookies, 3 second year guys and one below average TE in his fourth season should be playoff contenders within the first month together. And then there's reality...

I'd at least like it to look like QB and WR have MET each other

 

[gopkrs]

My concern is this: We kept Nijman but how bad is he when he can't play well enough to move Tom inside to Center to get ride of Myers.

The thing is, Tom did good against Crosby. Even the play where the announcer said that he pressured Love into a quick throw; Tom backed up and picked up Crosby a second time. Before he would have gotten to Love. Crosby was moving all over the line. If he would have had success against Tom; he probably would have played more at left DE. Which probably would have been the case against Nijman. And so it really would have taken a concerted effort to stop him with everyone knowing where he was each play. Tough to keep track of those wide stunts though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This was the kind of game I expected from the Packers this season. The offense is still learning and getting into sync. Love is facing new situations and having good and bad moments.

I'm probably more disappointed in the coaching and play calling than I am with the players. The offensive play calling last night was atrocious. First down at the frucking Raider 4 yard line and you can't figure out a play to stick it in the EZ?

I don't know WTF the Packers see in Patrick Taylor, but IMO, cut him loose. 3 straight plays went to him on a 3 and out possession.

One other thought, to save those who are teetering on the edge of that cliff, wondering if they should jump. Had Aaron Jones played last night, Packers win.

 

[milani]

Lots of mistakes on both sides.

- Love's accuracy.
- Gaps in O-Line.
- Ineffective blocking.
- Uninspired and passive (and defensive) play calling by MLF.
- Awful run D / Ineffective ILBs.

Flashes of brilliance from individual players aside, as a team it was a steaming mess.

There is also a telegraphing of both the run and the pass plays. We are playing a lot of school yard ball right now.

 

[milani]

This was the kind of game I expected from the Packers this season. The offense is still learning and getting into sync. Love is facing new situations and having good and bad moments.

I'm probably more disappointed in the coaching and play calling than I am with the players. The offensive play calling last night was atrocious. First down at the frucking Raider 4 yard line and you can't figure out a play to stick it in the EZ?

I don't know WTF the Packers see in Patrick Taylor, but IMO, cut him loose. 3 straight plays went to him on a 3 and out possession.

One other thought, to save those who are teetering on the edge of that cliff, wondering if they should jump. Had Aaron Jones played last night, Packers win.

Had Aaron played in Atlanta we win. Yes, the coaching is very disappointing. Simple game preparation is lacking. The team is not ready at kickoff, does not understand the game plan, and does not adjust well. I believe we went to the half carrying 2 TOs. MLF could have used one on the Raider TD drive just before they converted the short yardage 1st down.

 

[Team Ronny]

My concern is this: We kept Nijman but how bad is he when he can't play well enough to move Tom inside to Center to get ride of Myers.

Well..he did block a fg..maybe his future is on the dline or punt kick block units.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

The thing is, Tom did good against Crosby. Even the play where the announcer said that he pressured Love into a quick throw; Tom backed up and picked up Crosby a second time. Before he would have gotten to Love. Crosby was moving all over the line. If he would have had success against Tom; he probably would have played more at left DE. Which probably would have been the case against Nijman. And so it really would have taken a concerted effort to stop him with everyone knowing where he was each play. Tough to keep track of those wide stunts though.

I'm gonna take yours and Team Ronny's posts and mash them together. The issue isn't with Tom...the issue is Myers. If we can't replace Tom at RT Tom can't go inside and play C.

 

[milani]

Well..he did block a fg..maybe his future is on the dline or punt kick block units.

That is what height can do for you.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Had Aaron played in Atlanta we win. Yes, the coaching is very disappointing. Simple game preparation is lacking. The team is not ready at kickoff, does not understand the game plan, and does not adjust well. I believe we went to the half carrying 2 TOs. MLF could have used one on the Raider TD drive just before they converted the short yardage 1st down.

I am not a fan of calling timeouts in the 2nd Q, when the other team has the ball with a little time left on the clock, especially on 2nd down! MLF did that after a Raiders first down play that didn't pick anything up. I believe the Raiders probably let the clock run and call it a half. But instead, the pick up a decent chunk of yardage and off they go. Fortunately, they missed the FG. While the defense didn't play bad, they always seem to give up big chunk plays at the end of the half or game. Don't call defensive timeouts, thinking you are getting the ball back!

The other bad move on MLF's part last night, not calling a TO before the 2 minute warning in the 4th Q. Would have saved the Packers 30 seconds, Love may not have felt so rushed.

This is also the first year in which I am starting to Question MLF's game management skills.

 

[gopkrs]

I'm gonna take yours and Team Ronny's posts and mash them together. The issue isn't with Tom...the issue is Myers. If we can't replace Tom at RT Tom can't go inside and play C.

It's just that I want R tackle to be Tom's home. It is important enough not to mess with others trying to play it.

 

[gopkrs]

I am not a fan of calling timeouts in the 2nd Q, when the other team has the ball with a little time left on the clock, especially on 2nd down! MLF did that after a Raiders first down play that didn't pick anything up. I believe the Raiders probably let the clock run and call it a half. But instead, the pick up a decent chunk of yardage and off they go. Fortunately, they missed the FG. While the defense didn't play bad, they always seem to give up big chunk plays at the end of the half or game. Don't call defensive timeouts, thinking you are getting the ball back!

The other bad move on MLF's part last night, not calling a TO before the 2 minute warning in the 4th Q. Would have saved the Packers 30 seconds, Love may not have felt so rushed.

This is also the first year in which I am starting to Question MLF's game management skills.

I remember he called a timeout when we were on D and I thought why the hell would he do that. But thinking more about it, when we are getting run over right up the gut; it's actually not a bad idea to let the D recoup some. And rest some.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I remember he called a timeout when we were on D and I thought why the hell would he do that. But thinking more about it, when we are getting run over right up the gut; it's actually not a bad idea to let the D recoup some. And rest some.

While you could be right, MLF called the timeout, after the D stuffed the Raiders on a running play, on first down for no gain, on the 24 yard line, with 47 seconds on the clock. Raiders then picked up a nice gain on 3rd down and drove down the field for the FG attempt.

McCarthy used to do this all the time, as do other coaches. I see it backfire more than I see it actually work. Last night it backfired, but with the Raiders missing the FG, it didn't cost the Packers any points, but it might have. Even if the defense stopped the Raiders, the Packers probably don't get the ball back until 30 or less seconds are left in the half, hardly worth the risk IMO.

Sidenote: I went back and watched that series again, to make sure I was getting things right. Really ****** me off that Refs can't get spots correct. This was another example of it. The Raiders first down play was a jet sweep to Carter, McDuffie made a great play on it and tackled him out of bounds for an obvious 1 yard lost. The Refs, re-spotted the ball at the original line of scrimmage. I know it is just one yard, but for me, the devil is in the details.

 

[AKCheese]

Young and inexperienced.

Average Age Of Each NFL Team In 2023-24: Oldest & Youngest

Does age matter in the NFL? We broke down the 53-man rosters of each NFL team ahead of the 2023-24 season and update the numbers for each team in the playoffs.

bookies.com

I don't know if you can be certain after only 6 NFL starts.

I’m pretty sure there have been people saying Montana, Brady, Favre, Rodgers, almost you name is “is not the guy” after 6 starts

 

[Cornelius Weems]

So far this season, LV has the 4th worst overall offense in the NFL according to ESPN:

2023 NFL Offense Total Team Stat Leaders - ESPN

ESPN is the place for NFL stats! Find a list of the Offense Total team stat leaders for the 2023 NFL Regular Season.

www.espn.com

When it mattered, we couldn't get stops. Also their defense is middle of the road (and that's a stretch):

2023 NFL Defense Total Team Stat Leaders - ESPN

ESPN is the place for NFL stats! Find a list of the Defense Total team stat leaders for the 2023 NFL Regular Season.

www.espn.com

I'm not going to blame the players, after all players didn't see Preston Smith in single coverage on Adams and thought, just let it ride, and if the coaches didn't see that, then I'm at a loss for words. I know this team is young, and will screw up, but coaching blunders like that (the play resulted in a TD) are very hard to forgive. I know some are happy we held a 28th ranked offense to 17 points, but with how we have been drafting for several years, when we desperately needed stops, we gave up points or first downs.

 

[OldSchool101]

One other thought, to save those who are teetering on the edge of that cliff, wondering if they should jump. Had Aaron Jones played last night, Packers win.

I agree. #33 makes some difference because he’s our most seasoned Offensive weapon. Eliminate Davante or Jacobs and it makes a difference. We’re young on Offense WITH #33.

 

[OldSchool101]

Speaking to the slow starts?

My hypothesis is that a conglomeration of the rawness of pure inexperience puts us in what I’d call “very rare” category. I freely challenge anyone to show us any Offense (NFL) with the same or less experience AND less combined draft expenditure.
Go back as many seasons as you like and when you find one? (I don’t believe one exists) let’s look at their Win-Loss record and points scored across their first 5-6 games to compare.

Our OL Age, Draft Round, Experience level?
*23yrs 26yrs 25yrs 26yrs 24yrs
*Day3-Day3-Day2-Day3-Day3
*TOTAL combined accrued seasons=9
*The average age of our OL is 25yrs and the average accrued seasons is 1.8

Our QB (Jordan Love) has 6 starts.

Our RB’s were the most experienced group with 3 years average accrued
(Dillon+Taylor)

Our TE group combined consists of an average of 1yr accrued
Deguara 3 years
Musgrave 0
Kraft 0

Or WR group accrued years?
1,1,0,1,0,0

This is not an indictment on our guys or our future success. If anything ti the contrary because it does speak to the drastic level of inexperience and rawness of this team. We have ZERO Day1 selections on our Offense. I’m not sure that by itself is normal? but my guess is very few teams can say that regardless of total age or experience comparisons.

The Packers should conceivably grow at a faster rate than the average team, just based on what we all understand in that many players don’t hit stride until year 3 or beyond. The later the draft Rounds and the younger the player = the less Pro-Ready. That philosophy means both short term and medium term success rates should slowly catch up with the league average success as the weeks pass. It’s been a reality check for all of us I know that first hand. Expect a few more crappy games and then we’ll bust out several more really good wins also and just enjoy the ride. My feelings won’t be hurt if we finish strong this season and pick top 10 each round.

 

[Pugger]

Pugger he's not as ready as we were led to believe...at the very least

Led to believe what?

We had to face Bosa a few years ago in SF. MLF carved out a game to chip him and it worked. We put up 30 points that night. Are we that thin with talent.

Right now I don't think we have the OL talent or TEs and WRs who can block consistently. I recall one instance when Musgrave completely whiffed on trying to block Crosby and it was a miracle Love didn't get killed...

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Led to believe what?

Right now I don't think we have the OL talent or TEs and WRs who can block consistently. I recall one instance when Musgrave completely whiffed on trying to block Crosby and it was a miracle Love didn't get killed...

I live south of Milwaukee, and living down here we've been hearing for 18 months at least on sports talk 'Love is the guy...Love is ready...there will be drop off year one but it'll be fine' the problem is "Love is ready" is a falsehood.

 

[milani]

I agree. #33 makes some difference because he’s our most seasoned Offensive weapon. Eliminate Davante or Jacobs and it makes a difference. We’re young on Offense WITH #33.

Losing one score games against run of the mill teams tells us that he certainly can make a difference.