Packers to sign Za'darius Smith

[LambeauLombardi]

Fair enough but if I recall correctly we were trying to get him before so there is obviously something there someone likes...a lot. It's not like Gute saw a big year and decided to throw a bunch of money at him. He obviously had his eye on him and was seeing the same steady improvement that others saw that had him ranked as a top 20 FA on some boards.

We "signed" 4 guys today. Odds that all 4 work out are not good. Smith might be one that doesn't or it might be Smith or Amos or Turner.

In a way I'm encouraged by this, but in another way I'm discouraged. So if this is true I worry Gute would have gave this guy Khalil Mack money if he made a steady improvement from this past year. Yeah I get finding the right player is important but the other part of the GM's job is to get him at a good rate. That's the part where he lost me. I'm really curious to hear what the 2nd highest bidder was going to give him.

 

[AmishMafia]

I think that theory has been debunked several times. May have started with Reggie and has continued to gain steam.

Its not for everyone. I totally get if a player would prefer to play in Miami, LA, or Vegas. Not just the warmth, but the night life.

On the other hand, a die hard football nut may very well want to be a Packer because of the history or likes small town life.

It has to factor into the decision.

 

[smacker]

Its not for everyone. I totally get if a player would prefer to play in Miami, LA, or Vegas. Not just the warmth, but the night life.

On the other hand, a die hard football nut may very well want to be a Packer because of the history or likes small town life.

It has to factor into the decision.

Younger guys like the big city nightlife. Also consider commercials revenue. OBJ earns a lot more in New York than he would in Green Bay. Yes I would say, older married guys, family guys, religious guys and serious football guys fit better in Green Bay.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think having former Raven top scout Milt Hendrickson on staff also gives me some comfort level in Z Smith being a Packer. I can't imagine Gute didn't chat quite a bit with him about Smith.

 

[Dantés]

I don't understand why it's optimistic to say that subsequent contracts will put the Za'Darius Smith deal in perspective.

 

[smacker]

Well Gute at least did something in Free Agency, rather than nothing (like Teddy). No team or person is 100% correct on every player, not the Patriots, not Ron Wolf. If anything these signing should stop the panic drafting to fill spots. The free agent signings at the least give Green Bay a bit more flexibility in the Draft.

 

[Stanger37]

I am sure it is cliche to say, but every NFL player that is on the verge of POSSIBLY being great, gets their first big dollar contract at some point. He will only be 31 by the time this contract is up. I am sure he will want another contract after that as well. I'd rather be ahead of the curve on a guy on the up and up rather than see the Packers interested in someone and pass because it was X amount of money that they had to spend, wait and sign some roster plug and play. See how great the guy plays with someone else. Then when he is 31, sign him to a contract and he is a shell of himself and we're stuck with him at 35.

If Packers DONT sign people, people are angry and they never get a FA. If they sign people, MONEY COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER SPENT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

 

[GleefulGary]

There are 2-3 positions where I believe it's reasonably ok to overpay in FA if you have to:
- pass rusher
- QB
- CB

You should never overpay for a box safety, a RB, or an off ball LB.

So I understand that Z Smith's contract is a little steeper than what I'd like, but I get it too. Have to overpay to get them, and if they hit, they're worth the money.

 

[swhitset]

I am sure it is cliche to say, but every NFL player that is on the verge of POSSIBLY being great, gets their first big dollar contract at some point. He will only be 31 by the time this contract is up. I am sure he will want another contract after that as well. I'd rather be ahead of the curve on a guy on the up and up rather than see the Packers interested in someone and pass because it was X amount of money that they had to spend, wait and sign some roster plug and play. See how great the guy plays with someone else. Then when he is 31, sign him to a contract and he is a shell of himself and we're stuck with him at 35.

If Packers DONT sign people, people are angry and they never get a FA. If they sign people, MONEY COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER SPENT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I think you are getting the hang of the forum lol.

 

[sschind]

In a way I'm encouraged by this, but in another way I'm discouraged. So if this is true I worry Gute would have gave this guy Khalil Mack money if he made a steady improvement from this past year. Yeah I get finding the right player is important but the other part of the GM's job is to get him at a good rate. That's the part where he lost me. I'm really curious to hear what the 2nd highest bidder was going to give him.

Why be worried about what he would have given him? All that matters is what he did give him. He didn't come close to giving him Mack money so I'm not sure why that concerned you. I don't think he gave him significantly more than some other recent signees got. I think he knew what he was willing to pay, I think he was aware of what Smith wanted and I think he was aware of the market and the numbers came close so he went for it.


Funny you should mention the second highest bidder because to be honest I sometimes wonder if there ever is a second highest bidder.

What I mean is did Gute call his agent the second he could and say we will give you this much and the agent was floored by the offer and didn't want to give Gute a chance to back out so he agreed without asking around. I think this is what you are worried about and I get it. Gute was so in love with the guy he made an offer without even trying to get a better price. As far as getting a better price I'd rather have a GM that was willing to spend a little more than maybe he had to and gets the guys he wants than one who constantly lowballs players and gets no one.

Or did his agent call around after Gute made the offer and found out no one was willing to go any higher so he obviously agreed. Or did Gute make an offer and the agent said so and so is willing to give this much so Gute topped it. As much as we like to think of sports contracts as a bidding war I'm not sure how much it really resembles an auction with agents and teams going back and forth saying we can get this from them how much higher will you go. In a lot of cases I think its three teams are interested each gives his best deal and the agent takes the best one. If its close or the player has a preference the agent may call that team and see if he can get more but I don't know how much haggling is going on.

 

[brandon2348]

I should have put what I have been saying in this thread all in one post so let me clarify....

At this time last year, his value was probably 5 times less because of the year he had last year. With the money we are paying him, it seems like we are only paying for the type of player we saw last year, not the type of player he was for the other 3 years as well. Yeah your point is correct about sacks. I only used that one example to make my point and should have added more of my thoughts.

I get that the market is going up for players, but just because one team overspends doesn't mean we have to as well (example Landon Collins and Adrian Amos). I'm not saying he is a crappy player, but for what he is about to get paid he is nowhere near worth it IMO. In some ways it seemed similar to the Perry extension.

Im torn with the whole thing myslef but the fact is they showed some urgency which is refreshing. Were kind of in a situation where we had to do something. I like that we still have all our draft picks and there will be risk with whoever they signed.

The fact that these guys are younger gives some optimism that there best ball is ahead of them.

As far as Z. Smith i've heard from Raven fans that he was a product of Suggs on opposite side so well see. He is gonna have to show he can be the main guy.

My good friend in DC tells me P. Smith has a lot of potential but hasn't lived up to it yet. Sound familar?

Amos scares the hell out of me because he played behind that Bears front.

These for sure are not the guys I would of targeted so I won't pretend but maybe it will work. Just maybe they get a game changing LB in the draft to add to it with the yongster corners developing and the Defensive PIPE Dream becomes a dominant defense. It appears thats the direction they have decided to go.

Whats done is done. We can only hope at this point but at least we have more hope now then before because Matthews and Perry were garbage and we havent had a decent free safety in years. At least this Amos guy isnt afraid to hit.

Just have to wait.

 

[brandon2348]

You should never overpay for a box safety, a RB, or an off ball LB.
.

So the Seahawks overpaid Bobby Wagner?

 

[GleefulGary]

So the Seahawks overpaid Bobby Wagner?

The "in free agency" would be a key part to that statement, bubba.

I've said it before, I'll most likely have to say it again, please learn how to read entire sentences.

 

[brandon2348]

The "in free agency" would be a key part to that statement, bubba.

I've said it before, I'll most likely have to say it again, please learn how to read entire sentences.

So you would rather pay an average to slightly above average player more $ at a certain position then a GAME CHANGER at a position that you don't deem valuable?

Kind of like drafting TE's in the top 15?

Oh yeah, your sentences make perfect sense.

But But But But But!

 

[brandon2348]

We spent well over 100 million dollars today and didn't get one damn GAME CHANGER

 

[OldSchool101]

What the unrealized affect about the signings is that the draft is nearly completely open for us. What this did was allow us to swing for the upper deck in several picks. We didn’t have this luxury before this a.m.

I’d trade back into the teens and the en get back into day 2 for a 6th time by pairing 2 third day picks. . Go all out and get 6 picks before the NE Patriots even sniff their 1st comp selection. Then use the other 2-3 remaining picks for ST n depth

We could realistically be looking at
#17 LB
#30 OT
#44 Slot
#49 TE
#75 DT
#94 S

Day 3:
#118 OG
#194 CB
#226 K

 

[GleefulGary]

We spent well over 100 million dollars today and didn't get one damn GAME CHANGER

I would beg to differ. But if you want to go by Pro Bowls, you do that.

 

[GleefulGary]

So you would rather pay an average to slightly above average player more $ at a certain position then a GAME CHANGER at a position that you don't deem valuable?

Kind of like drafting TE's in the top 15?

Oh yeah, your sentences make perfect sense.

But But But But But!

Uh...yes.

Box safeties simply aren't that valuable. OBLB's simply aren't that valuable. They don't win games for teams.

Luke Keuchly is freaking amazing. A great player. They still had an average to below average defense. Landon Collins is very good! The NYG's had one of the worst defenses in the league.

You like to talk about Seattle. Seattle had an awesome defense. Bobby Wagner, obviously, was a big part of that. But the pass rush they had mattered more than Bobby Wagner did there.

I think both Smith's are above average players, and a clear upgrade to what we have that will make a greater impact than what Landon Collins would have.

 

[brandon2348]

Uh...yes.

Box safeties simply aren't that valuable. OBLB's simply aren't that valuable. They don't win games for teams.

Luke Keuchly is freaking amazing. A great player. They still had an average to below average defense. Landon Collins is very good! The NYG's had one of the worst defenses in the league.

You like to talk about Seattle. Seattle had an awesome defense. Bobby Wagner, obviously, was a big part of that. But the pass rush they had mattered more than Bobby Wagner did there.

I think both Smith's are above average players, and a clear upgrade to what we have that will make a greater impact than what Landon Collins would have.

I have no probelm with spending $ but when you spend it you better be damn certain.

The fact is P. Smith had 4 sacks last year. Less then Fackrell. As ive posted i have a very good friend who lives in DC and is a die hard skins fan. He tells me P. Smith is a potential guy that hasn't lived up to it. You feel confident handing him 16 mill?

Z. Smith has played opposite Suggs and every other guy that has played that spot opposite Suggs has BUSTED when they got paid. Now he has to be the MAIN MAN. You feel confident handing him 34.5 mill guaranteed over the first two years?

I DON'T!

Billy Turner? Hand him 10 mill when he was below average rated guard?

Amos was probably the only deal I feel decent about but still fear his stats were schewed playing behind the Bears front.

This **** better work cause it dont look good.

 

[brandon2348]

Uh...yes.

Box safeties simply aren't that valuable. OBLB's simply aren't that valuable. They don't win games for teams.

Luke Keuchly is freaking amazing. A great player. They still had an average to below average defense. Landon Collins is very good! The NYG's had one of the worst defenses in the league.

You like to talk about Seattle. Seattle had an awesome defense. Bobby Wagner, obviously, was a big part of that. But the pass rush they had mattered more than Bobby Wagner did there.

I think both Smith's are above average players, and a clear upgrade to what we have that will make a greater impact than what Landon Collins would have.

BTW. Go look at what happens to that Seattle defense when Wagner doesnt play. Wagner is and has been the heart and soul of that defense.

Anyone who doesnt know that doesnt know WTF there talking about.

 

[brandon2348]

Then you got Dante running around here telling eveyone "there contracts will look more in touch next year" as the league resets.

Well I got news for ya. If they don't IMPROVE there play there gonna look like EYE SORES.

So in a sense were betting 50 million that these guys will DEVELOP. Good god.

 

[GleefulGary]

I have no probelm with spending $ but when you spend it you better be damn certain.

The fact is P. Smith had 4 sacks last year. Less then Fackrell. As ive posted i have a very good friend who lives in DC and is a die hard skins fan. He tells me P. Smith is a potential guy that hasn't lived up to it. You feel confident handing him 16 mill?

Z. Smith has played opposite Suggs and every other guy that has played that spot opposite Suggs has BUSTED when they got paid. Now he has to be the MAIN MAN. You feel confident handing him 34.5 mill guaranteed over the first two years?

I DON'T!

Billy Turner? Hand him 10 mill when he was below average rated guard?

Amos was probably the only deal I feel decent about but still fear his stats were schewed playing behind the Bears front.

This **** better work cause it dont look good.

1) P Smith is getting 16 guaranteed, not per year. That's a pretty good deal. He also had a lot of pressures, for example, he had 53 QB pressures this year. Fackrell led our team with 20. Smith had the highest pressure rating in the NFL in 2017. Sacks aren't the only measure of a pass rusher. I quite frankly don't give a damn what your friend thinks. I don't know your friend, why would his opinion matter to me?

2) Z Smith led the Ravens in sacks and pressures this year, and is essentially a cheaper Trey Flowers. Is it a lot of money? Absolutely! I wish it was less, but you don't get good pass rushers for cheap. It's a shot we had to take. Spending that money on Collins wouldn't drastically improve our team, but Smith potentially could. Fwiw, Z Smith had 61 pressures in 2018. Our best pass rusher had 20.

3) Billy Turner is at minimum, an average guard. I'm not sure where you're seeing that he's below average. His ability to play RT increases his pay a bit. 7/year right now comes out to like the 20th OG. In a year it will be lower, and so on and so forth. He's a massive upgrade to Bell/McCray.

 

[GleefulGary]

BTW. Go look at what happens to that Seattle defense when Wagner doesnt play. Wagner is and has been the heart and soul of that defense.

Anyone who doesnt know that doesnt know WTF there talking about.

Please. Their pass rush and Earl Thomas defined that defense. Remember 2016 when the Seahawks had that shutdown defense? ET got hurt, we played them the next week and put up darn near 40 because Rodgers could throw downfield without ET there. Their defensive ppg went up 9 without ET. Wagner was playing during that stretch. Wagner has missed 9 games in his career with the defense being 3 ppg worse when he's out.

 

[brandon2348]

1) P Smith is getting 16 guaranteed, not per year. That's a pretty good deal. He also had a lot of pressures, for example, he had 53 QB pressures this year. Fackrell led our team with 20. Smith had the highest pressure rating in the NFL in 2017. Sacks aren't the only measure of a pass rusher. I quite frankly don't give a damn what your friend thinks. I don't know your friend, why would his opinion matter to me?

2) Z Smith led the Ravens in sacks and pressures this year, and is essentially a cheaper Trey Flowers. Is it a lot of money? Absolutely! I wish it was less, but you don't get good pass rushers for cheap. It's a shot we had to take. Spending that money on Collins wouldn't drastically improve our team, but Smith potentially could. Fwiw, Z Smith had 61 pressures in 2018. Our best pass rusher had 20.

3) Billy Turner is at minimum, an average guard. I'm not sure where you're seeing that he's below average. His ability to play RT increases his pay a bit. 7/year right now comes out to like the 20th OG. In a year it will be lower, and so on and so forth. He's a massive upgrade to Bell/McCray.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/billy-turner/8702

Wow!. Lets start doing back flips. Denver fans are laughing over this one

You dont watch Redskins training camp or all there games or follow them as my friend does. All you have done is look up some stats. YOU DON'T KNOW!

Baltimore didn't even make an offer to Smith.

Justin Houston has been the MAIN DOG all along and would of been cheaper. He is a scheme casualty. We know more what we'd be getting with Houston. He has played under big $ contracts too. Great guy as I met him when I lived in KC. He still has gas in the tank. GAME CHANGER

Im done talking about Landon Collins. All i have to say is GAME CHANGER.

Osemele > Billy Turner. You keep bringing up scheme fit but Bak doeant fit LaFleur scheme for that matter

Antonio Brown. Would of won a Super Bowl here on his way to the HOF. GAME CHANGER

The $ got spent. We just spent it on the wrong guys.

 

[GleefulGary]

Brandon, Brandon, Brandon...I knew you were bad at math, but do you not know colors either?! I personally don't care much about PFF, but **** man, the color they used their indicates average, and he came in at 33 for OG's. Now their are 60 starting OG's plus a bunch who played bc of injury, replacement, etc. So again I'll ask, where are you getting below average from?

Again, I don't know your friend. Why should I trust his take? If he's anything like you, I sure don't.

David Bakhtiari doesn't fit an OZ scheme? Do you just make **** up all day long? Bakh was born for the OZ scheme. He's athletic, moves his feet well, understands spacing. Why the hell wouldn't he fit?!

And yes, I used stats. I know, they're your nemesis, but they do occasionally have uses. You should try them sometime!