Packers sign T Rick Wagner

[Curly Calhoun]

I'm sure that is the plan, but a developing TE doesn't mean effective starter.

No guarantees, of course.

How could Sternberger can become remains to be seen.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Kirksey signing looks like a big risk...played in 9 games the last 2 years...and Pettine coached him in Cleveland. This looks like a retread signing, and I feel Pettine is on the fence teetering on losing his job, so yeah, I am not very confident regarding this.

 

[tynimiller]

Kirksey signing looks like a big risk...played in 9 games the last 2 years...and Pettine coached him in Cleveland. This looks like a retread signing, and I feel Pettine is on the fence teetering on losing his job, so yeah, I am not very confident regarding this.

Dig deeper and research the type of injuries and specific parts of his body they were. This dude would 100% be pulling Schobert money or close had he not tore a pec.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Dig deeper and research the type of injuries and specific parts of his body they were. This dude would 100% be pulling Schobert money or close had he not tore a pec.

I hope you are right and he can stay on the field. The Pettine connection makes me nervous, and rightfully so.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I hope you are right and he can stay on the field. The Pettine connection makes me nervous, and rightfully so.

Packer LB coach Olivadotti had connections with Preston Smith when they were both with Washington and so far he has worked out well. I think I remember someone else on the staff being connected to Za'Darius Smith as well ( I could be wrong). If anything, I think Pettine's knowledge of a player and his previous working relationship should be viewed as a positive. Unless of course you are convinced Pettine just isn't a good coach and then I understand your apprehension. Ultimately though, it was Gute's decision, so Pettine may have had an opinion if asked, but I doubt his opinion alone was why the signing happened.

 

[Dantés]

Kirksey was really good under Pettine. It's funny to see the connection spun as a negative. I guess when you have an agenda...

 

[Heyjoe4]

Kittle is on a measly current contract figure...no worries he will make far more.

As for FA's I've shared plenty of options...the signing of Hooper in Cleveland does make me scratch my head further on if the RFA Ricky Seals-Jones for CLE gets signed by them...he is a young but very promising and more proven than either Stern or Tonyan for us. Keep a keen eye out for things Seals-Jones associated.

Much appreciated. Outside of FA, we all better be praying that Jace makes a BIG jump.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Outside of FA, we all better be praying that Jace makes a BIG jump.

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but many thought (including the Packers) MVS and to some extent Allison would do the same last year, so I wouldn't bet the farm on it happening quite yet with Jace.

 

[GleefulGary]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but many thought (including the Packers) MVS and to some extent Allison would do the same last year, so I wouldn't bet the farm on it happening quite yet with Jace.

In fact, let's never be optimistic that young players will improve. And let's never have a reason for that logic either.

 

[gopkrs]

I still think that having big slots messes with other receiver's abilities and fails to open up holes in the passing game. I hope the short guy on the ps gets another shot. I consider a slot to play on the inside whereas outside is more like a traditional flanker.

 

[GleefulGary]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but many thought (including the Packers) MVS and to some extent Allison would do the same last year, so I wouldn't bet the farm on it happening quite yet with Jace.

A 3rd round TE improving is exactly the same as thinking a 5th round wr and udfa wr make a BIG jump. Totally good comparisons.

 

[gopkrs]

Actually, Jace does not need to improve. He just needs to play well. Has not had a chance yet really.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I hope the short guy on the ps gets another shot.

Darrius Shepherd? He isn't THAT short at 5'11". I expect him to get another shot, but I wouldn't hold my breath on him doing a whole lot after the sh*t show we saw out of him last season.

Actually, Jace does not need to improve. He just needs to play well. Has not had a chance yet really.

He needs to improve, most second year guys do. I'm still trying to picture opening day and your starting TE has 1 career NFL reception on 4 targets. Not an image that exudes solid starter to me. Could be worse, Boyle could be the starting QB.

 

[Sky King]

What is intriguing about Sternberger is that he was not considered a proven blocker coming out of college. It turns out that he showed genuine promise in that area before anything else. I don't recall that any of us predicted that in advance and if so, take a well-deserved bow whoever you are.

If he also delivers on what was alleged to be his bread and butter -- stretching the field and YAC -- he still could be the answer at TE sooner than later. Every year the team has to take a leap of faith out of necessity and this could be one of those positions it applies to for 2020.

 

[swhitset]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but many thought (including the Packers) MVS and to some extent Allison would do the same last year, so I wouldn't bet the farm on it happening quite yet with Jace.

I certainly understand your point, but let’s remember that Jace was a 3rd round pick... much higher than any of those other guys you mentioned. Of course that’s no guarantee of anything, but it certainly gives evidence that he is expected to do more than a 6th rounder or an undrafted guy. Personally, despite what many on here want to say about Rodgers, I think he is the only reason a guy like Allison has been able to remain in the league. Now let’s not bring up Burks lol.

 

[OldSchool101]

Jace turning into an effective NFL starting TE in only his second season (after missing the very ast majority of rookie season) would be one of the biggest historical anomalies in NFL history, most NFL TEs don't really take off until year 4. He certainly shows the potential to be a decent TE but counting on it this season is fool's gold. Ebron would add an athletic receiver to the group which would be nice but he doesn't block that well.

The biggest historical anomaly in NFL history? Really? I’m expecting
25rec 355 yards 4TDs type production Year 2 (depending on how high profile they go at TE in FA)
While I agree that many players need time to excel, Saying a player can’t start until he’s a 4th year TE is somewhat rhetorically presumptuous. Jace has a Redshirt year under his belt plus significant preparation throughout the season (plus 2 playoff games). I fully expect Jace to get significant playing time this season. They may not need to rely on any true #1 as they use so many varying packages, they could spread the workload over multiple TE’s
I do think he is capable of earning our #2 type snaps without too much of a stretch.
I see guys all around the league performing admirably in their rookie season/2nd year
While we’d obviously all like to have the comfort of all 4 year veterans, we’d be fine with the group of Jace, Tonyan, insert veteran, insert Draft pick or equivalency.
Notice I’m not opposed to signing (or resigning) a veteran though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I certainly understand your point, but let’s remember that Jace was a 3rd round pick... much higher than any of those other guys you mentioned. Of course that’s no guarantee of anything, but it certainly gives evidence that he is expected to do more than a 6th rounder or an undrafted guy. Personally, despite what many on here want to say about Rodgers, I think he is the only reason a guy like Allison has been able to remain in the league. Now let’s not bring up Burks lol.

LOL.....and damn you...you read my mind all to well. I was totally thinking of Burks, Jackson, Biegel, Rollins, etc. as I was reading your post.

While I think we can have more hope in a guy like Sterberger, simply because he was a 3rd round and not a 6th round pick, however, as we have all seen over just the last 5 years, draft position doesn't seem to guarantee very much. Like I have said, I hope that guys like Sterberger, Burks, Jackson......surprise us all and live up to their round selection, but relying on it to happen, that is a concept I can't quite comprehend yet.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The biggest historical anomaly in NFL history? Really? I’m expecting
25rec 355 yards 4TDs type production Year 2 (depending on how high profile they go at TE in FA)
While I agree that many players need time to excel, Saying a player can’t start until he’s a 4th year TE is somewhat rhetorically presumptuous. Jace has a Redshirt year under his belt plus significant preparation throughout the season (plus 2 playoff games). I fully expect Jace to get significant playing time this season. They may not need to rely on any true #1 as they use so many varying packages, they could spread the workload over multiple TE’s
I do think he is capable of earning our #2 type snaps without too much of a stretch.
I see guys all around the league performing admirably in their rookie season/2nd year
While we’d obviously all like to have the comfort of all 4 year veterans, we’d be fine with the group of Jace, Tonyan, insert veteran, insert Draft pick or equivalency.
Notice I’m not opposed to signing (or resigning) a veteran though.

Please, list me off the group of standout year 2 tight ends in the NFL. It's a VERY small list. Hence, anomaly.

 

[El Guapo]

Everyone hopes that players make the Year 2 jump, sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Some players peaked in Year 1 and others may take until Year 4 or 5. Media and fans like to assume that players come off of a factory line, and can be diagnosed after Year 1 or 2 as either a stud or dud. It doesn't work that way. Some players don't realize how important it is to stick their nose in the playbook. Some players don't fully blossom physically until their mid-20s. Some are destined to fail.

It's a tough business to assess who is going to make the jump, who isn't, and who needs more time.

 

[GleefulGary]

Please, list me off the group of standout year 2 tight ends in the NFL. It's a VERY small list. Hence, anomaly.

You didn't say standout TE.

You said effective starting TE. Don't move the goalposts now.

I actually listed a bunch of them. You didn't respond. Shocking.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You didn't say standout TE.

You said effective starting TE. Don't move the goalposts now.

I actually listed a bunch of them. You didn't respond. Shocking.

Sorry, missed your list. Let's say I agree that 4 of those guys were effective in their second years. Now go look at how many tight ends have been drafted overall since those guys have been in the NFL, then divide 4 by that number. Being effective in year 2 is VERY RARE.

Actually, just checked, there have been 55 TEs drafted since 2016 (when Hooper entered the league), so that's about 7% of the tight ends being effective in their second year. I'm not certain that counting on a guy who only played 60 offensive snaps last season as being in that 7% is the best strategy for handling a very important position for MLF's offense. I'm not trying to imply that he sucks, he'll probably be very good, it just seems unrealistic to think he's that good in his first full NFL season.

 

[GleefulGary]

Sorry, missed your list. Let's say I agree that 4 of those guys were effective in their second years. Now go look at how many tight ends have been drafted overall since those guys have been in the NFL, then divide 4 by that number. Being effective in year 2 is VERY RARE.

Actually, just checked, there have been 55 TEs drafted since 2016 (when Hooper entered the league), so that's about 7% of the tight ends being effective in their second year. I'm not certain that counting on a guy who only played 60 offensive snaps last season as being in that 7% is the best strategy for handling a very important position for MLF's offense. I'm not trying to imply that he sucks, he'll probably be very good, it just seems unrealistic to think he's that good in his first full NFL season.

I didn't list all of them, so your study is already flawed.

Now, it's also got no comparison. How does that compare to, say, WR's? Or RB's? What if the TE is really good at blocking, plays a lot, but doesn't get the stats?

I think, with how offenses have changed, that tight ends are making impacts sooner than before. However it doesn't always show up in stats because most teams are only using one TE for the most part, at least in the passing game. There are good players that don't necessarily have the opportunity, like Hayden Hurst with the Ravens.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I didn't list all of them, so your study is already flawed.

Now, it's also got no comparison. How does that compare to, say, WR's? Or RB's? What if the TE is really good at blocking, plays a lot, but doesn't get the stats?

I think, with how offenses have changed, that tight ends are making impacts sooner than before. However it doesn't always show up in stats because most teams are only using one TE for the most part, at least in the passing game. There are good players that don't necessarily have the opportunity, like Hayden Hurst with the Ravens.

Fine, you win, tight ends are routinely good in year 2. You rely on Jace being the Packers starting TE next year and I will hope he proves my concerns unjustified.

 

[GleefulGary]

Fine, you win, tight ends are routinely good in year 2. You rely on Jace being the Packers starting TE next year and I will hope he proves my concerns unjustified.

Again, moving the goal posts.

I never said TE's are routinely good in year 2. I just don't think it's rare.

I certainly hope that we add a veteran to the TE room, and imagine that we will. Sounds like we have some interest in Ebron and Walker. I'm a bit skeptical as to how much Walker would help, but he's cheap. I'm not really a fan of Ebron, but if he's cheap, that's fine. Kind of plays the same position as Sternberger, which is a downside.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Again, moving the goal posts.

I never said TE's are routinely good in year 2. I just don't think it's rare.

I certainly hope that we add a veteran to the TE room, and imagine that we will. Sounds like we have some interest in Ebron and Walker. I'm a bit skeptical as to how much Walker would help, but he's cheap. I'm not really a fan of Ebron, but if he's cheap, that's fine. Kind of plays the same position as Sternberger, which is a downside.

Hold on. All I initially said was that it was not realistic to count on Jace as a quality starter at TE next year. If you agree with that, then I'm seriously confused about our recent discourse. Not disappointed mind you, it was fun, but very confused.