Packers create more 2020 cap space

[Dantés]

If the way Rodgers played against the Bears and Lions this past 3 weeks is anything more than an aberration then it's time to start preparing.

We've seen it take a year for quarterbacks to settle in and thrive in this offense (e.g. Matt Ryan started in it in 2015 and then excelled in 2016, Jimmy Garoppolo has been in it since 2017 but just really came on strong with consistency in the 2nd half of this season, the Titans' passing offense didn't just immediately blossom when Petals arrived).

If it's next year and Rodgers still can't find consistency, then I think you start thinking about drafting someone with intention. But it's both way too early in this offense and way too early in this contract to try and find an heir apparent in 2020.

 

[OldSchool101]

Also another thought, the more recent big D contracts speak to a 4 year window ending in the 2022 season. One would naturally think the closer in you get to those expiring, the greater the need to have plan B.

Obviously, if a QB that GB sees slips a couple rounds off their grade those plans may be hastened. But otherwise, the natural date to consider his replacement in order to be “eased” in would be 2021/2022. It would be premature in 2020 to find his successor and as some have already said, it would detract from using a high draft pick at another glaring need.

 

[melvin dangerr]

If Jimmy stays redo his contract (not) if Tramon stays redo his also

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Depends on what we do in free agency. There's no way of knowing if ANY draft pick will work out.

True, but with a quarterback it would be all but guaranteed he doesn't have a chance to get on the field next season.

If Jimmy stays redo his contract (not) if Tramon stays redo his also

The Packers should definitely move on from Graham. Tramon is a free agent after this season.

 

[PackAttack12]

We've seen it take a year for quarterbacks to settle in and thrive in this offense (e.g. Matt Ryan started in it in 2015 and then excelled in 2016, Jimmy Garoppolo has been in it since 2017 but just really came on strong with consistency in the 2nd half of this season, the Titans' passing offense didn't just immediately blossom when Petals arrived).

If it's next year and Rodgers still can't find consistency, then I think you start thinking about drafting someone with intention. But it's both way too early in this offense and way too early in this contract to try and find an heir apparent in 2020.

2015 Matt Ryan:

66.3% completions
21 TDs
16 INTs
7.5 yards/attempt
89 passer rating (6 games with 100+)
64.1 QBR

2016 Matt Ryan

69.8% completions
38 TDs
7 INTs
9.3 yards/attempt
117.1 passer rating (12 games with 100+)
79.6 QBR
MVP of the league
Should have won the Super Bowl

Difference between he and Rodgers is that Rodgers with the 9th best scoring defense in the NFL has the Packers at 13-3 and Matt Ryan with the 14th best scoring defense finished 8-8 in their first seasons in the new system.

Matt Ryan led his team to the 21st best scoring offense, and Rodgers has led his team to the 15th best scoring offense.

As far as weapons are concerned, there are some differences, but not insanely different. It could be argued that Ryan was "force feeding" Julio with 136 catches for 1,871 yards. Same kind of "narrative" with the Packers. Davante's numbers extrapolated over a 16 game season would be 110 catches for 1329 yards (which likely would be even better, given how light we eased him back after the 4 game absence). Julio that season is obviously superior to anything Davante has accomplished in his career. So far.

Both quarterbacks' #2 player in terms of number of receptions for the season? Running backs (Jones for the Packers, Freeman for the Falcons)

Before you get to another receiver in either situation, you come across a borderline tight end in terms of receptions. (Graham for the Packers, Tamme for the Falcons...both in their twilight years in the NFL).

Then you get to average to below average wide receiver options as the #2's (White at the backend of his career, Lazard an unproven, undrafted FA)

To your point, year 2 has the potential to yield some very nice results for Rodgers, especially if they're able to get him another weapon or two, similar to what the Falcons did in signing Sanu the following offseason.

Again though, to really drive this point home...

Anyone expecting for Rodgers to be 100% comfortable and 100% of his full capability in this new offense in year 1, with very limited personnel around him, was absolutely fooling themselves. A little bit of patience will need to be exercised.

That Rodgers even has his team in position to win 2 games to get to the Super Bowl this season is somewhat remarkable, in my humble estimation.

 

[Pugger]

Lazard didnt get to the team until December of last year and Rodgers seems pretty okay throwing to him. So yes I think a wr who has talent and is going to work hard and be in right spot will earn Rodgers trust.

I am glad you think they should take a qb. I think you are wrong. Probably not going to be a fruitful discussion.

Maybe Rodgers likes to throw to Lazard because he is often where AR expects him to be? Why is it Rodgers throws a lot of passes to Adams on 3rd down? Because they have good chemistry and DA knows how to get open and will bail his QB out when the play breaks down. Perhaps the other receivers are not as proficient as these 2 are at getting open and scramble drills.

And I agree, if a good QB falls to us Gute should take him, just like TT did in 2005.

 

[Pugger]

Packers are tied to Rodgers for the next few years so, there is no reason to expend draft capital on a player that won't help your current situation. Teams just aren't drafting 1st rounders just to have a QB sit for several years (since 14, I think Mahomes is the only one to sit for a season). They are playing right away and, if the team messed up, they are just moving on more quickly. Plus, teams want a starting QB on a cheap contract with that 5th year option, not burn 2-3 years, have them start and then have to pay them starter money. If the Packers spend a 1st rounder on a QB then I anticipate whatever year that is will either be the year after Rodger's retires or will be the last year of Rodgers.

We weren't in the market for a QB when TT drafted Rodgers in 2005, however. If a top one falls like AR did you take him. MN had 2 shots at AR but chose to pass because they had Culpepper and we all know how that turned out.

 

[gbgary]

If it's next year and Rodgers still can't find consistency, then I think you start thinking about drafting someone with intention. But it's both way too early in this offense and way too early in this contract to try and find an heir apparent in 2020.

he hasn't been consistent in three seasons...two of which were in the O he's been running for years and loves. i'm expecting it continues next season, unless...

 

[Mondio]

^^^ Probably one of the most obtuse comments you've made concerning this, and that says something. I wonder if there were any other relevant factors??? LOL

 

[PackAttack12]

he hasn't been consistent in three seasons...two of which were in the O he's been running for years and loves. i'm expecting it continues next season, unless...

Yeah the bastard sucked in 2017 because he allowed Anthony Barr to crush his collarbone.

 

[PackAttack12]

^^^ Probably one of the most obtuse comments you've made concerning this, and that says something. I wonder if there were any other relevant factors??? LOL

If ever it were in question that gary is a Rodgers hater, it isn't even reasonable whatsoever to hold 2017 against him. Yet he's able to do it because he's gary.

Rodgers has been known to start even some of his best seasons slowly the first two or three games (anyone remember the relax year?)...but even in 2017 Rodgers started the season 4-1 and in the 3 games leading up to the Minnesota game where he essentially got knocked out for the season, he had:

67% completions
713 yards
10 touchdowns
1 interception
117 passer rating
72 QBR

But when you're gary, you can re-write history.

Should we call it "re-gary-ist" history as opposed to revisionist?

 

[Dantés]

he hasn't been consistent in three seasons...two of which were in the O he's been running for years and loves. i'm expecting it continues next season, unless...

He missed most of 2017 with the collarbone. In the 7 games he played, he was in line with his career norms. He played most of 2018 with an MCL injury. Are you forgetting this or ignoring it?

 

[bigbubbatd]

Maybe Rodgers likes to throw to Lazard because he is often where AR expects him to be? Why is it Rodgers throws a lot of passes to Adams on 3rd down? Because they have good chemistry and DA knows how to get open and will bail his QB out when the play breaks down. Perhaps the other receivers are not as proficient as these 2 are at getting open and scramble drills.

And I agree, if a good QB falls to us Gute should take him, just like TT did in 2005.

Exactly and if a wr learns the playbook Rodgers will throw to him. He doesnt like it when guys are consistently not where they are supposed to be which isnt all that surprising.

If a great qb falls and there are no high quality wrs, ilb, RT, TE, or DTs then yes drafting a qb would be a solid idea

 

[gbgary]

If ever it were in question that gary is a Rodgers hater, it isn't even reasonable whatsoever to hold 2017 against him. Yet he's able to do it because he's gary.

Rodgers has been known to start even some of his best seasons slowly the first two or three games (anyone remember the relax year?)...but even in 2017 Rodgers started the season 4-1 and in the 3 games leading up to the Minnesota game where he essentially got knocked out for the season, he had:

67% completions
713 yards
10 touchdowns
1 interception
117 passer rating
72 QBR

But when you're gary, you can re-write history.

Should we call it "re-gary-ist" history as opposed to revisionist?

don't know where you got those numbers for 2017 but they're wrong.

comp % 64.7
yards 1675
td's 16
ints 6
rating 97.2
qbr 64.4
22 sacks in 7 games. 8.5 sack % equaled his career high.
int % 2.5 the highest since he was a starter.
this is not what you'd call consistent.

 

[PackAttack12]

don't know where you got those numbers for 2017 but they're wrong.

comp % 64.7
yards 1675
td's 16
ints 6
rating 97.2
qbr 64.4
22 sacks in 7 games. 8.5 sack % equaled his career high.
int % 2.5 the highest since he was a starter.
this is not what you'd call consistent.

Re-read my post and try again.

HINT: I’m not wrong.

 

[Mondio]

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong point when you have Gary Goggles on

 

[gbgary]

lol...that's what i get for skimming...but my point's still valid. his numbers weren't what you'd expect from him and ratings wise have gotten worse.

 

[PackAttack12]

lol...that's what i get for skimming...but my point's still valid. his numbers weren't what you'd expect from him and ratings wise have gotten worse.

So you’re going to hold the Carolina game against him in which he had three INTs off of what was in no way a fully healed collarbone after 8 weeks off?

Again, he was trending into elite production after he started a game or two slow (like he has many times in the past). The numbers are above for you to reference.

Either way, holding a 6 game season against him is the definition of hater behavior.

 

[gbgary]

So you’re going to hold the Carolina game against him in which he had three INTs off of what was in no way a fully healed collarbone after 8 weeks off?

Again, he was trending into elite production after he started a game or two slow (like he has many times in the past). The numbers are above for you to reference.

Either way, holding a 6 game season against him is the definition of hater behavior.

i was just looking at the final numbers. he started off hot but tailed off. that's the definition of inconsistency. it hasn't changed since...but it believe it can.

 

[PackinMSP]

2015 Matt Ryan:

66.3% completions
21 TDs
16 INTs
7.5 yards/attempt
89 passer rating (6 games with 100+)
64.1 QBR

2016 Matt Ryan

69.8% completions
38 TDs
7 INTs
9.3 yards/attempt
117.1 passer rating (12 games with 100+)
79.6 QBR
MVP of the league
Should have won the Super Bowl

Difference between he and Rodgers is that Rodgers with the 9th best scoring defense in the NFL has the Packers at 13-3 and Matt Ryan with the 14th best scoring defense finished 8-8 in their first seasons in the new system.

.

Yeah I think this is what we SHOULD expect next year from AR. Which will be crazy to wonder how good the team can be next year.

I think he's been "good enough" this year, but it's still a BRAND NEW offensive system for a guy who's really only known one thing for the past 14 years so we should expect some sort of "leap/increase" in numbers and stats.

 

[PackinMSP]

Also another thought, the more recent big D contracts speak to a 4 year window ending in the 2022 season. One would naturally think the closer in you get to those expiring, the greater the need to have plan B.

Obviously, if a QB that GB sees slips a couple rounds off their grade those plans may be hastened. But otherwise, the natural date to consider his replacement in order to be “eased” in would be 2021/2022. It would be premature in 2020 to find his successor and as some have already said, it would detract from using a high draft pick at another glaring need.

Kind of...

But wasn't that the case when TT picked Aaron Rodgers when we had a great team with Brett Favre? lol.

I still think the "draft and sit and groom" the QB approach will/should work, especially when you have a guy like AR who's so cerebral to help mentor a young QB. How long does he sit? 2 years? 3 years? Who knows...but I think at least a year or two should be fine...

Heck, look at the Chiefs with Mahomes, similar strategy with him and Alex Smith before him...

The window with AR would probably be to 2022 you're right, as the majority of our impact players would be around/past 30 years old by then too. Unless something drastic changes

 

[Spencer Gray]

Just watching the games, I agree with Rodgers not knowing where certain guys will be / not trusting them. A play that stands out to me is from the Lions game. He threw a deep pass to MVS where he let the ball go toward the sideline, giving MVS a chance to drift to it and make some space. MVS never drifted / continued to run straight and never got there. Similar play in the game to Adams, and he drifted right under it. There is plenty to clean up, but like Aaron mentioned in a recent interview, they can take this bye week to find the plays that have worked and been on time. We can build a game plan around those. I think we will improvement in 2020 as well. Having the extra cap could give us some room to build this roster.

 

[PackinMSP]

Just watching the games, I agree with Rodgers not knowing where certain guys will be / not trusting them. A play that stands out to me is from the Lions game. He threw a deep pass to MVS where he let the ball go toward the sideline, giving MVS a chance to drift to it and make some space. MVS never drifted / continued to run straight and never got there. Similar play in the game to Adams, and he drifted right under it. There is plenty to clean up, but like Aaron mentioned in a recent interview, they can take this bye week to find the plays that have worked and been on time. We can build a game plan around those. I think we will improvement in 2020 as well. Having the extra cap could give us some room to build this roster.

Some of those type of plays, there have been quite a few actually this year are a combo of the new offensive scheme and probably a WR that just isn't that good honestly. Although I hope that MVS can progress somehow between then and now lol. But likely that will be Lazard who gets that opp.

So it's not entirely on AR that his numbers are "down" this year, although there are a number of other factors.

I think what SOME complaints are though is when he just plain MISSES someone on say an Out/Slant/Comeback type of pattern and it's just a plain miss when you see it honestly.

That can be due to timing and trust in WRs too though

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And I agree, if a good QB falls to us Gute should take him, just like TT did in 2005.

I would be fine with Gutekunst drafting a possible elite quarterback (Tagovailoa if he drops because of his injury) in this year's draft but he shouldn't consider selecting a potential good one early.

lol...that's what i get for skimming...but my point's still valid. his numbers weren't what you'd expect from him and ratings wise have gotten worse.

i was just looking at the final numbers. he started off hot but tailed off. that's the definition of inconsistency. it hasn't changed since...but it believe it can.

Do you honestly expect Rodgers to put up better numbers than a passer rating of 117??? In addition it's ridiculous to even consider his performance against the Panthers in 2017.

 

[PackAttack12]

i was just looking at the final numbers. he started off hot but tailed off. that's the definition of inconsistency. it hasn't changed since...but it believe it can.

Started off hot but tailed off? Based on what?