Packers and Jaylon Smith closing in on a deal

[tynimiller]

Interesting stuff Ty, thanks for putting that together. What caught my eye was Devin White. He was drafted very high and, as I would expect, leads the Pass Rush category. What surprised me is that he is at the bottom of EVERY other category.

Young and will fill in no doubt. Penalties and glaring misses can cause drastic PFF grading drops - Rasul in the Bears game is a perfect example.

 

[gopkrs]

Interesting stuff Ty, thanks for putting that together. What caught my eye was Devin White. He was drafted very high and, as I would expect, leads the Pass Rush category. What surprised me is that he is at the bottom of EVERY other category.

You mean Devin White, the guy that beat us in the playoffs? That is because the grades can be complete bs and not mean a thing.

 

[tynimiller]

LOL the ignorance of that statement is worse than someone that claims they're (PFF) biblical. You’re nuts

 

[gopkrs]

LOL the ignorance of that statement is worse than someone that claims their biblical. You’re nuts

You are also wrong about Martinez who we are a lot better off without. Don't care if those stats put him in the hall of fame.

 

[OldSchool101]

LOL the ignorance of that statement is worse than someone that claims their biblical. You’re nuts

Here’s something biblical you might appreciate as it was written by one of the worlds wealthiest, powerful and wisest men alive in Solomon. (by the worlds admission) Not directed at you.. but I think you can apply it on occasion nevertheless.

Proverbs 23:9
Do not speak in the hearing of a fool
For he will despise the Wisdom of your words. Then centuries later from the same family tree.. Jesus backed it up
Matt 7:6 and said we shouldn’t give our pearls to pigs because they won’t understand the value of it.

 

[tynimiller]

You are also wrong about Martinez who we are a lot better off without. Don't care if those stats put him in the hall of fame.

Please go back and find where I ever said we should have kept him? Please - I'll wait.

 

[gopkrs]

Please go back and find where I ever said we should have kept him? Please - I'll wait.

OK then. My mistake.

 

[Heyjoe4]

You mean Devin White, the guy that beat us in the playoffs? That is because the grades can be complete bs and not mean a thing.

Actually he beat us in the regular season (a pounding is more like it) and of course beat us again in the NFCCG. That's where stats are or can be misleading. Mark Twain said it - there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Who cares if White can't consistently cover or stop the run or rack up 145 tackles a year (as Martinez did for us, all about 6 yards past the LOS). Tampa Bay deliberately built their roster with experts at certain positions (Shaq Barrett, Vita Vea, and more) with Brady being the final piece. I just thought White would have higher rates in the other areas. Would I take him for our entire ILB group? In a heartbeat.

 

[gopkrs]

Actually he beat us in the regular season (a pounding is more like it) and of course beat us again in the NFCCG. That's where stats are or can be misleading. Mark Twain said it - there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Who cares if White can't consistently cover or stop the run or rack up 145 tackles a year (as Martinez did for us, all about 6 yards past the LOS). Tampa Bay deliberately built their roster with experts at certain positions (Shaq Barrett, Vita Vea, and more) with Brady being the final piece. I just thought White would have higher rates in the other areas. Would I take him for our entire ILB group? In a heartbeat.

He is so fast and hits hard.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

154 tackles last year? Yeah it's nice to have some depth at ILB for a change. The last time they had a decent player at that position was for the short time CMIII was moved inside to stop the bleeding. If Dallas is paying most of Smith's salary this year, so much the better.

Matthews was an average inside linebacker at best. He went two straight games without making a tackle playing there. That is absolutely unheard of.

Stop, if you think CM is the last "decent" ILB we've had you haven't watched Packers games over the past few years. Blake Martinez was an above average or above decent ILB - he lacked any kind of big play potential - but 100 out of 101 people would say easily was a decent ILB.

Blake didn't start or play every game as a rookie but his next four seasons (2017-2020 seasons) he had 144, 144, 155 and 151 tackles. He has consistently been in the top tier of tacklers in the league during that time frame.

He even tossed in averaging 3 sacks a year along with handful of pass defenses each season and nearly an INT a year.

The total number of tackles by Martinez is a completely misleading stat. He made most of them after the opponent had already gained several yards on the play.

 

[Schultz]

So he would have been better off if he did not make those tackles? The stat that he made most of his tackles after several yards is over rated. The D line did not get any push allowing the opposing OL to get to the 2nd level. His coaches put him in that position to not be able to make tackles sooner.

 

[tynimiller]

Matthews was an average inside linebacker at best. He went two straight games without making a tackle playing there. That is absolutely unheard of.



The total number of tackles by Martinez is a completely misleading stat. He made most of them after the opponent had already gained several yards on the play.

True a sub decent player doesn’t even make those tackles…wait but that wasn’t the discussion.

 

[OldSchool101]

Matthews was an average inside linebacker at best. He went two straight games without making a tackle playing there. That is absolutely unheard of.

Clay wasn’t even moved inside until after the week 9 Bye week. I took the time to go week to week (ESPN stats)

Week 10= 9T 2Assists 1sack
Week 11= 4T 1A 1sack 1TFL
Week 12= 1T 1A
Week 13= 4T 2A
Week 14= 1T 4A 1 Sack 1TFL
Week 15= 4T OA 2 Sacks 2TFL
Week 16= 4T 2A 2.5Sacks 3TFL
Week 17=3T 0A 1 Sack 2TFL

Divisional=4T 2A 1QB hit
NFC game= 5T 5A 1 Sack 1TFL 1QB hit

In 1/2 regular season only @ iLB
Clay was pacing 88 tackles
20 TFL (that’s a 23% ratio of TFL!)
2 QB hits and
17 Sacks!
(He also had some PD I didn’t track)


I’ll give you this anomaly.. he had 2 consecutive without a sack (week 12-13)
That’s a BAD iLB alright!
That’s BAD Motor Scooter!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So he would have been better off if he did not make those tackles? The stat that he made most of his tackles after several yards is over rated. The D line did not get any push allowing the opposing OL to get to the 2nd level. His coaches put him in that position to not be able to make tackles sooner.

True a sub decent player doesn’t even make those tackles…wait but that wasn’t the discussion.

Martinez is better than other inside linebackers who don't make those tackles but he's far from being an impact player at the position like the really good ones.

Clay wasn’t even moved inside until after the week 9 Bye week. I took the time to go week to week (ESPN stats)

Week 10= 9T 2Assists 1sack
Week 11= 4T 1A 1sack 1TFL
Week 12= 1T 1A
Week 13= 4T 2A
Week 14= 1T 4A 1 Sack 1TFL
Week 15= 4T OA 2 Sacks 2TFL
Week 16= 4T 2A 2.5Sacks 3TFL
Week 17=3T 0A 1 Sack 2TFL

Divisional=4T 2A 1QB hit
NFC game= 5T 5A 1 Sack 1TFL 1QB hit

In 1/2 regular season only @ iLB
Clay was pacing 88 tackles
20 TFL (that’s a 23% ratio of TFL!)
2 QB hits and
17 Sacks!
(He also had some PD I didn’t track)


I’ll give you this anomaly.. he had 2 consecutive without a sack (week 12-13)
That’s a BAD iLB alright!
That’s BAD Motor Scooter!

Matthews was excellent rushing the passer from the inside linebacker position but was average at best in all other aspects.

He didn't register a single tackle in two consecutive games in week 15 and 16 of the 2015 season when he was still playing inside.

 

[Mondio]

The fact we didn't miss Martinez at all last year with a couple guys brand new to the team in the same defense shows you how much impact he had. Lots of guys can do what he did. heck, I'd say I saw as many impact plays by Barnes in limited time last year as I did in 4 years of Martinez starting.

 

[Heyjoe4]

So he would have been better off if he did not make those tackles? The stat that he made most of his tackles after several yards is over rated. The D line did not get any push allowing the opposing OL to get to the 2nd level. His coaches put him in that position to not be able to make tackles sooner.

Both you and Cap are right about Martinez, depending on how you look at it. Most of the time, I never saw much in Martinez beyond what Cap described and was not disappointed when he went to the NYG. He put up big numbers, just at the wrong place on the field most of the time.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Martinez is better than other inside linebackers who don't make those tackles but he's far from being an impact player at the position like the really good ones.



Matthews was excellent rushing the passer from the inside linebacker position but was average at best in all other aspects.

He didn't register a single tackle in two consecutive games in week 15 and 16 of the 2015 season when he was still playing inside.

I forget what year TT moved up to draft CMIII. I think it was 2006. Seemed like he played very well his first 5-7 years or so and then just dropped off the table. Just my opinion, but these OLBs and ILBs start to lose it around 7, 8 years in the league. They're more durable than RBs, but the demands of the position simply take a toll.

 

[tynimiller]

Martinez is better than other inside linebackers who don't make those tackles but he's far from being an impact player at the position like the really good ones.



Matthews was excellent rushing the passer from the inside linebacker position but was average at best in all other aspects.

He didn't register a single tackle in two consecutive games in week 15 and 16 of the 2015 season when he was still playing inside.

Not a soul her made the claim he was an impact player though, wasn’t the discussion.

 

[PikeBadger]

I forget what year TT moved up to draft CMIII. I think it was 2006. Seemed like he played very well his first 5-7 years or so and then just dropped off the table. Just my opinion, but these OLBs and ILBs start to lose it around 7, 8 years in the league. They're more durable than RBs, but the demands of the position simply take a toll.

2009. Was drafted in the same round as Raji.

 

[Heyjoe4]

2009. Was drafted in the same round as Raji.

Thanks for the reminder, I remember the two picks in the first round, and then a year later Raji making a big pic 6 play against the Bears in the NFCCG and CMIII making a big play to seal the SB win in 2010. Those were some great years and a great team. Would be nice to win another one with Rodgers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not a soul her made the claim he was an impact player though, wasn’t the discussion.

An inside linebacker needs to make impact plays on a regular basis to be considered a decent player in my opinion though.

Martinez didn't make enough of those though.

 

[tynimiller]

An inside linebacker needs to make impact plays on a regular basis to be considered a decent player in my opinion though.

Martinez didn't make enough of those though.

Again that wasn't part of this whole discussion however. I am not sure you'll find a single person on this board that would say he was an impact player.

 

[PikeBadger]

An inside linebacker needs to make impact plays on a regular basis to be considered a decent player in my opinion though.

Martinez didn't make enough of those though.

I guess "decent" is a word that means different things to different people.

Impact plays on a regular basis from a MLB sounds to me like a Pro Bowl calibre player.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I guess "decent" is a word that means different things to different people.

Impact plays on a regular basis from a MLB sounds to me like a Pro Bowl calibre player.

For what it's worth, in his time at GB, I never considered him an impact player. At ILB, that means a guy who pretty regularly does one or more of these things, a) drops back in coverage and makes a pic, b) tackles runners behind the line, and c) has 5 or 6 sacks/season and more pressures. I never saw a year where Martinez came close to that. Yes he tackled a lot of guys, but in the "stop the bleeding" category. I was not disappointed when he left. Just an opinion. He was just a guy. Every team needs em because of the cap - and at $10 mil/year, that was way too rich for Blake.

 

[OldSchool101]

Matthews was excellent rushing the passer from the inside linebacker position but was average at best in all other aspects.

He didn't register a single tackle in two consecutive games in week 15 and 16 of the 2015 season when he was still playing inside.

Hmmm. Is this a recording? There’s no way that exact same thing could be said 13 times without the verbiage changing. Trying to figure out why to many posters.. Tackles don’t measure a LB’s performance, yet here? they are a measurement to a fault.

Boy do I feel stupid if you’ve actually been on vacation this whole time and these are just pre-recorded, canned responses.

I’m going to test this theory these are prerecorded..,
So, other than week 15-16 in 2015… Captain how does Clay make you feel?

And What’s your Mother’s Maiden name?

Where were you on the eve of Dec 6th 1941?