Packers and Aaron Rodgers agree on 3 yr 150 mill

[Heyjoe4]

Honestly when the time comes it's best to me to hear the blunt honesty. The next year, hopefully just one year is going to be rough due to the pushing of the chips in we did. It's just that simple.

I agree. The blunt truth is the best. And I think most of the fans get it, or will get it. Better to set expectations - under promise and over deliver so to speak.

And it's not all bad. The defense may actually be the star once Rodgers moves on. It looks pretty well set for the foreseeable future. The only rough water I see is getting Alexander signed, and they can pull that off.

I lived through the Packers' dark ages after Lombardi. The organization lost it's commitment to excellence. That's what allowed Bart Starr, bless him, to coach for nine years, the Forrest Gregg years, and on. It was only when Bob Harlan hired Ron Wolf to regain past glory did things change. Hopefully, we'll never go through those dark years again.

My only concern - Mark Murphy is not Bob Harlan. I think that Gluten, MLF, and Ball have excelled in spite of, and not because of Murphy. At best, he's a businessman, or college administrator. At worst, he's a selfish, bumbling fool. Again, his greatest strength is that he stays out of the way for the most part. I know not everyone agrees, he did promote Gluten after all, but promoting someone else's talent is not necessarily talent.

Now I don't think we're gonna find another HOF QB, but we can dream!

 

[Poppa San]

That's amazing that it can be done in one year. I guess a team just eats all their dead cap, or most of it, in one year, and moves on. That would require a helluva PR effort by the FO for all of us short-memory fans. "We're gonna suck this year (and probably a few more) but it's because we gave you what you wanted in Rodgers for (fill in the blank) years." Gotta work on that messaging.

And if it's 2 years from now and Love is the QB, it will all be blamed on him as being a wasted pick. The "I told you so's" will flood this board after every miscue and missed opportunity. Your type of post will be lost in the flood.
At least the bandwagon will get some elbow room.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And if it's 2 years from now and Love is the QB, it will all be blamed on him as being a wasted pick. The "I told you so's" will flood this board after every miscue and missed opportunity. Your type of post will be lost in the flood.
At least the bandwagon will get some elbow room.

Nahh....we are trading Love for 3 first round picks.

I'm fine with Love riding the pine for another 2 or more years, that means AR is doing great at QB and hasn't gotten injured, traded, retired or sucks.

Anyone that has already declared Love a failure, just doesn't understand the game of football.

 

[Heyjoe4]

And if it's 2 years from now and Love is the QB, it will all be blamed on him as being a wasted pick. The "I told you so's" will flood this board after every miscue and missed opportunity. Your type of post will be lost in the flood.
At least the bandwagon will get some elbow room.

Yeah you're right. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. No matter how the FO tries to position it, down years aren't acceptable in GB anymore, even if they make sense.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Nahh....we are trading Love for 3 first round picks.

I'm fine with Love riding the pine for another 2 or more years, that means AR is doing great at QB and hasn't gotten injured, traded, retired or sucks.

Anyone that has already declared Love a failure, just doesn't understand the game of football.

I think if I were Love this is the point where I'd be asking for a trade. Rodgers sat for three years, a long time. Love is not a starting QB, IMO, but he's a first round pick and probably deserves the chance to show he can do the job. I don't see that happening in GB. Just trade him for, whatever. He's just a distraction and Gluten's biggest mistake. We can learn to live with it AND give the guy a chance he deserves.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He's just a distraction and Gluten's biggest mistake.

See, this is the thinking I don't understand. How do you know he was Gute's biggest mistake? What are you basing that on? If he is a bust, what is this trade value that you seek? Who do you now insert as your #2 QB?

Whether Love is a starting QB or not, we don't know yet. Love is a #2 QB until he gets more work, a #2 QB that the Packers currently need. I'm not pedaling him off for a 6th round pick, just to "give him a chance elsewhere." Not too mention, leaving the Packers with no #2. We invested a first round pick and its paying him really nicely. He will get his chance either with the Packers or when his contract is up. Welcome to the NFL, where not everyone plays and/or doesn't make it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

See, this is the thinking I don't understand. How do you know he was Gute's biggest mistake? What are you basing that on? If he is a bust, what is this trade value that you seek? Who do you now insert as your #2 QB?

Whether Love is a starting QB or not, we don't know yet. Love is a #2 QB until he gets more work, a #2 QB that the Packers currently need. I'm not pedaling him off for a 6th round pick, just to "give him a chance elsewhere." Not too mention, leaving the Packers with no #2. We invested a first round pick and its paying him really nicely. He will get his chance either with the Packers or when his contract is up. Welcome to the NFL, where not everyone plays and/or doesn't make it.

I don't think our opinions are that different Poker, just opinions. I'm thinking Love wants to play, and if he has to sit more than a year then he'd want to be traded. I didn't say it was good for the Packers. It doesn't have to be.

Now he hasn't said a word to that affect, so maybe he's happy staying, and in that case, yeah, he's a solid #2 QB. A guy with a competitive streak would want to prove himself. Sitting around collecting a paycheck after two years in the league doesn't fit that description in my opinion.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't think our opinions are that different Poker, just opinions. I'm thinking Love wants to play, and if he has to sit more than a year then he'd want to be traded. I didn't say it was good for the Packers. It doesn't have to be.

Right, but I don't think you trade a guy, just because he wants to play, especially when they invested a first round pick in him. If Gute starts trading guys, because they want a shot at starting, we would be in trouble for our depth every year.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Right, but I don't think you trade a guy, just because he wants to play, especially when they invested a first round pick in him. If Gute starts trading guys, because they want a shot at starting, we would be in trouble for our depth every year.

I get it, and they're paying him a lot as a first round pick. And player demands don't need to be met, especially when a guy hasn't done anything or has done what was expected (and Love hasn't demanded anything). I'd rather have him as our backup, because he's clearly best suited for that.

Now next year, if Rodgers wants to keep playing here, then Love may make some noise. First things first. Bring back a Lombardi trophy!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

See, this is the thinking I don't understand. How do you know he was Gute's biggest mistake? What are you basing that on?

Gutekunst traded up in the first round to select a quarterback that will most likely not play any meaningful snaps over his entire rookie deal. I think that qualifies as his biggest mistake.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Gutekunst traded up in the first round to select a quarterback that will most likely not play any meaningful snaps over his entire rookie deal. I think that qualifies as his biggest mistake.

I know that you and a few other fans seem to really want that to be the case. While that is a distinct possibility, it hasn't fully played out yet. At this point I would say Josh Jackson was a bigger drafting mistake.

 

[kevans74]

Randy Moss was a first round pick back in 1998....#21.

That said, I agree with you that you don't necessarily have to spend a first rounder on a WR to get a really good one, but it does probably increase your odds of doing so.

Not if you're Ted Thompson

Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Davante Adams, Cobb, etc.

Even Finley, a TE, was Round 3...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not if you're Ted Thompson

Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Davante Adams, Cobb, etc.

Even Finley, a TE, was Round 3...

TT definitely struck gold on WR's in the 2nd round, as well as Jones in the 3rd. Whether he planned it or it was coincidence, he would draft a WR in the 2nd round, every 2-3 years during his time. The only time he veered away from that was his final draft, when he used his 2nd round on Josh Jones. Wonder how things would have changed had he used it on JuJu Smith Shuster, who was taken with the next pick.

 

[kevans74]

TT definitely struck gold on WR's in the 2nd round, as well as Jones in the 3rd. Whether he planned it or it was coincidence, he would draft a WR in the 2nd round, every 2-3 years during his time. The only time he veered away from that was his final draft, when he used his 2nd round on Josh Jones. Wonder how things would have changed had he used it on JuJu Smith Shuster, who was taken with the next pick.

I mean, I think it's just talent with TT...

May he RIP, he had talent for sure. His later years he had some questionable decisions for sure but he was underrepresented for what he did in his earlier years with us. Built a helluva roster

Not even WRs, but how about Nick Collins, Finley(again), TJ Lang, Josh Sitton, Morgan Burnett, Mike Daniels, Linsley and Tretter, etc .. lots of good picks in the later rounds....

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I mean, I think it's just talent with TT...

May he RIP, he had talent for sure. His later years he had some questionable decisions for sure but he was underrepresented for what he did in his earlier years with us. Built a helluva roster

Not even WRs, but how about Nick Collins, Finley(again), TJ Lang, Josh Sitton, Morgan Burnett, Mike Daniels, Linsley and Tretter, etc .. lots of good picks in the later rounds....

Totally agree. Gute has done pretty well in Free Agency and has been so-so with his drafts. Besides Jaire, Gutes 2018 draft is all but out of football or with another team (MVS, Burks and EQ). Despite Jaire being a stud and MVS being good for a 5th rounder, the rest of his draft sucked. Gutes 2019 draft, was good for Gary, Savage and Jenkins, the rest...meh.

With very little cap space, Gute is going to really have to rely on hitting on a few rookies and/or have a few 2nd and 3rd year guys step up.

 

[gopkrs]

Totally agree. Gute has done pretty well in Free Agency and has been so-so with his drafts.

This is the year for him to turn that around. I think it is better not to swing for the fences this year and just make sure you get very good ballplayers especially with those early picks (1-3). I'm sure they have all those receivers graded. I have said it before that I would not mind (assuming two are available) taking receivers with the first round picks. Kind of depends on what we do in free agency.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Gutekunst traded up in the first round to select a quarterback that will most likely not play any meaningful snaps over his entire rookie deal. I think that qualifies as his biggest mistake.

Thanks Cap. I know these things are subjective, but in a year when the draft was flush with WR talent, and GB needed another WR, Gluten gives up a 4th round pick to take a guy who will likely never start as a rookie except in relief. Hindsight is 20/20, but I think at the time, a significant majority of Packer fans were thinking "WTF!" And then he takes zero WRs in that draft. Project to now, where we basically have no #1 through #3 WRs (OK maybe Lazard is a #3), and the mistake is compounded.

That doesn't mean I'm a Gluten hater, quite the contrary. He's done other good things in FA that TT never would have done, drafted some incredible talent - Alexander, Gary, Stokes, Dillon and at least from me gets a solid grade of B or B+, especially after last year's mid-season acquisitions. But picking Love was a doozy, with consequences.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I know that you and a few other fans seem to really want that to be the case. While that is a distinct possibility, it hasn't fully played out yet. At this point I would say Josh Jackson was a bigger drafting mistake.

Poker! Yeah Josh Jackson was a reach but he's a CB. Love plays QB, the most important position in the draft. And Jackson was round 2 and didn't require a trade up. No comparison. And having the occasional round two dud is common. Messing up round 1 happens (I keep thinking of Tony Mandarich or Ryan Leaf) but it is rare.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Poker! Yeah Josh Jackson was a reach but he's a CB. Love plays QB, the most important position in the draft. And Jackson was round 2 and didn't require a trade up. No comparison. And having the occasional round two dud is common. Messing up round 1 happens (I keep thinking of Tony Mandarich or Ryan Leaf) but it is rare.

Joe!

Like I said, Love very well COULD end up being Gute's worst pick, but do we really know that yet? Those of you speculating that Love is basically a bust, really need to convince me that you know that for sure and how you know it.

At this point I would still say the Josh Jackson pick to date, was his worst. Maybe that will change in the coming months or years. BTW...at the time Jackson was not a reach, he was mocked by several people to go first round. He just ended up not being a good pick. Which I can say with confidence today, with what he has done while a Packer.

The Packers used their 30th pick and 4th round to grab Love. No comparison at all to using the #2 pick in the draft on Tony Mandarich.

 

[tynimiller]

Joe!

Like I said, Love very well COULD end up being Gute's worst pick, but do we really know that yet? Those of you speculating that Love is basically a bust, really need to convince me that you know that for sure and how you know it.

At this point I would still say the Josh Jackson pick to date, was his worst. Maybe that will change in the coming months or years. BTW...at the time Jackson was not a reach, he was mocked by several people to go first round. He just ended up not being a good pick. Which I can say with confidence today, with what he has done while a Packer.

The Packers used their 30th pick and 4th round to grab Love. No comparison at all to using the #2 pick in the draft on Tony Mandarich.

Couldn’t agree more. Jackson was no reach but simply did not work out at all in the NFL like essentially everyone thought; and I don’t mean fans but I mean GMs, scouts, guys like Kiper and others.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Joe!

Like I said, Love very well COULD end up being Gute's worst pick, but do we really know that yet? Those of you speculating that Love is basically a bust, really need to convince me that you know that for sure and how you know it.

At this point I would still say the Josh Jackson pick to date, was his worst. Maybe that will change in the coming months or years. BTW...at the time Jackson was not a reach, he was mocked by several people to go first round. He just ended up not being a good pick. Which I can say with confidence today, with what he has done while a Packer.

The Packers used their 30th pick and 4th round to grab Love. No comparison at all to using the #2 pick in the draft on Tony Mandarich.

Oh yeah Tony Mandarich was the worse Packers' pick ever.

I see your point on Love and will concede for now that the jury is technically still out. Personally I don't think he'll ever make it in the NFL, as a starter or backup, but no one can say that for sure right now. (And really he's already made it as a backup for Rodgers. I just don't see him playing past is rookie contract. GB will have paid him a ton of money to stay in shape.)

So in the world of the known, yeah Josh Jackson was probably Gluten's biggest misfire. Although that was a case where I, and probably a lot of other fans, thought Jackson was a steal in Round 2. He was big, fast, and physical and had a great college career at Iowa, i think with a lot of INTs. A good example that while it's more likely a Round 1, 2, or 3 guy will make it at some level, it's not close to a guarantee.

To be continued.........

 

[Pkrjones]

Oh yeah Tony Mandarich was the worse Packers' pick ever.

Going back to 1980... Bruce Clark was THE WORST pick by GB, ever. 1st round, #4... NEVER played a down for GB. What a waste, when GB could've REALLY used a talent infusion. Bart Starr wanted him to play 3-4 NT (6'2, 264 lbs!) and Clark was coming off a knee injury. Clark knew that NT's regularly got doubled (high/low) and had a career span of 3-8 yrs. and chose to play in the CFL until allowed back into the NFL with another team.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Going back to 1980... Bruce Clark was THE WORST pick by GB, ever. 1st round, #4... NEVER played a down for GB. What a waste, when GB could've REALLY used a talent infusion. Bart Starr wanted him to play 3-4 NT (6'2, 264 lbs!) and Clark was coming off a knee injury. Clark knew that NT's regularly got doubled (high/low) and had a career span of 3-8 yrs. and chose to play in the CFL until allowed back into the NFL with another team.

I'm surprised I don't remember this. I'm guessing Starr the coach at the time. But yeah, a first round pick that never played a down? That would qualify in the "worst ever" category. Thanks for the reminder from the bad ol days! They were truly bad.

 

[sschind]

Going back to 1980... Bruce Clark was THE WORST pick by GB, ever. 1st round, #4... NEVER played a down for GB. What a waste, when GB could've REALLY used a talent infusion. Bart Starr wanted him to play 3-4 NT (6'2, 264 lbs!) and Clark was coming off a knee injury. Clark knew that NT's regularly got doubled (high/low) and had a career span of 3-8 yrs. and chose to play in the CFL until allowed back into the NFL with another team.

While I agree with you some point out that the pick GB eventually recouped for Clark (The Saints first rounder in 1982) makes up for it.

Couldn’t agree more. Jackson was no reach but simply did not work out at all in the NFL like essentially everyone thought; and I don’t mean fans but I mean GMs, scouts, guys like Kiper and others.

in the same vein Mandarich was not a reach, he just didn't work out. You didn't say he was but people criticize the pick when many people agreed it was the right pick at the time. Honestly that's not something I pin on the GM. At least not completely.

Do you differentiate between picks that were thought to be very good picks at the time that just didn't pan out and picks that were just bad? I'm not sure how you would even do that. Taking a player that had said he wouldn't play for you (Clark is said to have told the Packers he wouldn't play NT) is probably a good representation of the latter but how do you judge the former.

Was Jamarcus Russel a bad pick? Ryan Leaf? or any number of other players who were thought of very highly by very many people. I guess that's why you don't judge a pick for several years but even then can you really blame a GM for not seeing that a highly touted player will be a bust. No one has a crystal ball.

That's why I prefer to judge a GM on his success or failure to build an overall winning team and not based on specific draft picks. Gute has missed on several picks and Poker is right, his 2018 was pretty bad but despite that he has built or at least maintained a very competitive team so so far he receives pretty high marks from me. If Love never takes a meaningful snap for the Packers it won't really affect my grade of Gute if the Packers can win another SB or two in the next few years.

 

[Heyjoe4]

While I agree with you some point out that the pick GB eventually recouped for Clark (The Saints first rounder in 1982) makes up for it.


in the same vein Mandarich was not a reach, he just didn't work out. You didn't say he was but people criticize the pick when many people agreed it was the right pick at the time. Honestly that's not something I pin on the GM. At least not completely.

Do you differentiate between picks that were thought to be very good picks at the time that just didn't pan out and picks that were just bad? I'm not sure how you would even do that. Taking a player that had said he wouldn't play for you (Clark is said to have told the Packers he wouldn't play NT) is probably a good representation of the latter but how do you judge the former.

Was Jamarcus Russel a bad pick? Ryan Leaf? or any number of other players who were thought of very highly by very many people. I guess that's why you don't judge a pick for several years but even then can you really blame a GM for not seeing that a highly touted player will be a bust. No one has a crystal ball.

That's why I prefer to judge a GM on his success or failure to build an overall winning team and not based on specific draft picks. Gute has missed on several picks and Poker is right, his 2018 was pretty bad but despite that he has built or at least maintained a very competitive team so so far he receives pretty high marks from me. If Love never takes a meaningful snap for the Packers it won't really affect my grade of Gute if the Packers can win another SB or two in the next few years.

It's all about winning. There are no awards for the best drafter, or the best acquirer in FA. It comes down to building a cohesive team starting each year with 90 different personalities and motivations, honing that to 53, and then maintaining it or improving it for the rest of the season. That's why the job of GM and HC are best separated. It's not that one person shouldn't do both jobs, it's that they can't - or at least not very well.