Packers 1st round selection, #12 overall: Rashan Gary, DE

[easyk83]

My bad for pulling us off topic. Yeah they're molding Gary into something he wasn't at Michigan. I like what I see, and admit I was skeptical last year.

Check this site out,

https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=27414

Gary ranked above average for the position in arm length and broad jump and was in elite company in his 10, 20 40 yard and vertical. The results were even more impressive once you factor in his size. Not many 6'4 275 pound players run a 4.58 40 ,put up a 120 inch broad jump and throw up 26 reps on the bench despite those 34 inch arms. Size speed length and strength there aren't that many players with his natural talent. Now it looked like a workout warrior, but he's looking not only like he could be a really good player for us but a dominant one too.

 

[sschind]

Check this site out,

https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=27414

Gary ranked above average for the position in arm length and broad jump and was in elite company in his 10, 20 40 yard and vertical. The results were even more impressive once you factor in his size. Not many 6'4 275 pound players run a 4.58 40 ,put up a 120 inch broad jump and throw up 26 reps on the bench despite those 34 inch arms. Size speed length and strength there aren't that many players with his natural talent. Now it looked like a workout warrior, but he's looking not only like he could be a really good player for us but a dominant one too.

But he was the #12 pick and didn't do squat last year so that automatically makes him a bust. Picks that high should come in and dominate from day one and if they don't it was a wasted pick. It doesn't matter what he does from here on out he took a couple of years to develop so as the 12th pick that makes him an overwhelming failure. Anybody should be able to see that.

 

[PikeBadger]

Well to be fair, the Packers were so pathetically desperate that we spent $118M on Smith & Smith to bridge the gap until Gary was ready.

Gary was drafted after the Smith’s had signed.

 

[thequick12]

When preston smith is released well get to see what Gary is over the 2021 season as a starter in his 3rd year...then you can say bust or not and I'm thinking not he looks like he's primed for a break out year

 

[Heyjoe4]

Gary was drafted after the Smith’s had signed.

Good point. And I didn't hear anyone complaining about the Smiths last year. Z continues to produce. Preston's role has either changed with the ascension of Gary, or he's simply having a sub-par year. My biggest complaint with this D is the coaching, up and down the coaching lineup, starting with Pettine. If Rodgers and Co. weren't putting up 30 plus points this year, this would be a 7-6 team at this point. With Gary's ascension, my guess is that Preston is gone next year anyway.

 

[Half Empty]

Good point. And I didn't hear anyone complaining about the Smiths last year. Z continues to produce. Preston's role has either changed with the ascension of Gary, or he's simply having a sub-par year. My biggest complaint with this D is the coaching, up and down the coaching lineup, starting with Pettine. If Rodgers and Co. weren't putting up 30 plus points this year, this would be a 7-6 team at this point. With Gary's ascension, my guess is that Preston is gone next year anyway.

For fans, is there anything wrong with the "what have you done for me lately?" position? Of course, we were fine with the Smiths last year, because they did what they were paid to do. Preston is still getting paid to do that, but he's not (regardless of whether it's scheme/effort/injury/fill in the blank. Was there any way of knowing that Adams' 2nd year was the anomaly, so what was wrong with being disappointed after a good first year? If the D suddenly catches fire, do we all get our fingers slapped for being down on the coaching as it's been? We're not privy to inside information, so we can only go with what we see now. If, for example, the Pack had said they were drafting Gary for his physical abilities but that it'd take a year or two for him to fit in and dominate, some would have been more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, the only acceptable time for evaluation of players, coaches, and teams would be when they're done and can no longer rise or fall.

 

[PikeBadger]

For fans, is there anything wrong with the "what have you done for me lately?" position? Of course, we were fine with the Smiths last year, because they did what they were paid to do. Preston is still getting paid to do that, but he's not (regardless of whether it's scheme/effort/injury/fill in the blank. Was there any way of knowing that Adams' 2nd year was the anomaly, so what was wrong with being disappointed after a good first year? If the D suddenly catches fire, do we all get our fingers slapped for being down on the coaching as it's been? We're not privy to inside information, so we can only go with what we see now. If, for example, the Pack had said they were drafting Gary for his physical abilities but that it'd take a year or two for him to fit in and dominate, some would have been more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, the only acceptable time for evaluation of players, coaches, and teams would be when they're done and can no longer rise or fall.

Agree however, it’s the cut Adams, he’s a bust and fire Gute comments that smack of short sighted stupidity. Very few players have an even and steady growth trajectory. Fans tend to be very impatient and unrealistic in their expectations IMO.

 

[tynimiller]

Fans tend to be very impatient and unrealistic in their expectations IMO.

That was very politely put, I'd have just said fans tend to be "ignorant fools" LOL

 

[Heyjoe4]

You're right. Fans are never gonna be happy enough, and that includes me. It's just that I look at the D and I see quite a few good players - Alexander, Clark, Z, Gary and then guys like Amos, Savage, Keke, and King - not to mention a few others like Raven Greene. And I wonder why does this D commit four D-holding penalties on one drive? Why can't a team with this talent stop the run consistently?

If the players are there, about the only thing left is the coaching. Pettine's been there three years (or two)? Plenty of time to get the job done, and yet the D ranks 22nd. I'd be happy with a top 15 D, and that's all this offense really needs. I just don't want to see 6 years of Capers, although I doubt MLF would ever let that happen.

Finally, I like your point about Gary. If they did draft him, even at #12, as a development player, they wouldn't announce that. Seems that's the way it's playing out. And yeah, Adams had a terrible sophomore year, and look at him now. Maybe I should "just" be happy with a 10-3 record and a #1 seed!

 

[PikeBadger]

That was very politely put, I'd have just said fans tend to be "ignorant fools" LOL

Thank you. I try to keep in mind that I’m a moderator even though I still see myself as just a regular run of the mill poster and very seldom post as a moderator.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Agree however, it’s the cut Adams, he’s a bust and fire Gute comments that smack of short sighted stupidity. Very few players have an even and steady growth trajectory. Fans tend to be very impatient and unrealistic in their expectations IMO.

Correct, and injuries come into play too. But yeah I've heard the fire Gluten comments and to put it politely, those are just stupid. That said, I will admit to being worried about Pettine. Not a ton, but enough talent on that D to be better than 22nd. And would a run stop be too much to ask. The unit does seem to be getting better as December wears on, pretty typical of a good playoff team.

 

[tynimiller]

Correct, and injuries come into play too. But yeah I've heard the fire Gluten comments and to put it politely, those are just stupid. That said, I will admit to being worried about Pettine. Not a ton, but enough talent on that D to be better than 22nd. And would a run stop be too much to ask. The unit does seem to be getting better as December wears on, pretty typical of a good playoff team.

Likewise with Pettine here too. However, I'll gladly take a unit that surges in December and on through the playoffs and Pettine redeems his job for yet another year LOL Mainly because that would mean at minimum we made it to the Super Bowl.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

One might be able to argue that Z-Dog has had a bit of a down year as well. Sure, he has quietly accumulated 10 1/2 sacks, but for me, he doesn't seem to be as big of a presence as he was last season. Possibly its the energy that I feel is lacking from him, Preston and pretty much the whole defense. Sure, they get excited (for themselves) when they get a sack, pick, etc. but otherwise, this Packer defense just seems to lack energy and enthusiasm. I put that mostly on coaching.

 

[tynimiller]

The defensive energy overall is not the same as 2019...honestly its like the sides of the ball have switched. It is crazy how fun the offensive squad as a whole is having together this year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The defensive energy overall is not the same as 2019...honestly its like the sides of the ball have switched. It is crazy how fun the offensive squad as a whole is having together this year.

This pretty well sums up how I feel:

"At this point, Green Bay’s defensive issues might entirely fall on their coach. Stud defensive tackle Kenny Clark is heating up, safeties Darnell Savage and Adrian Amos are on fire. Meanwhile, cornerback Jair Alexander is playing at an All-Pro level and this pass rush has 14 sacks and the third-highest sack rate (11.02%) in the past three games. If Green Bay could find a solid defensive coordinator, this would easily be the NFC’s best team. In terms of talent, this unit deserves to be higher in our NFL defense rankings."

NFL defense rankings: Los Angeles Rams surge into No. 1 spot, Pittsburgh Steelers fall into Week 15 : Sportsnaut

 

[Dantés]

The defensive energy overall is not the same as 2019...honestly its like the sides of the ball have switched. It is crazy how fun the offensive squad as a whole is having together this year.

I agree that the defense has been pretty flat at times this year, but the biggest factor in their decline has been interception regression. In my thread before the season in projecting records in the NFCN, I noted that the Packers' heavy INT figure in 2019 was probably due to come down. That just isn't a very stable stat, year over year. They're on pace to be +5 in TO margin, as opposed to +12.

One thing I noted that could offset that negative regression was that Green Bay's really low giveaway number was likely to hold steady. Rodgers' not throwing interceptions is a feature of his game, rather than a volatile stat based more on chance. And that's held true. The giveaway numbers are great, but the takeaway numbers have plummeted.

Hopefully the defense gets back on a hot streak in the playoffs. There's no structural reason why they can't.

2019: Takeaways:

• INT: 17 (3rd, TIE)
• FUM: 8 (21st, TIE)
• TOT: 25 (3rd)

2019 Giveaways:

• INT: 4 (1st)
• FUM: 9 (15th, TIE)
• TOT: 13 (2nd)

2019 Differential:

• +12
• RANK: 3rd

2020 Takeaways:

• INT: 8 (24th, TIE)
• FUM: 5 (23rd, TIE)
• TOT: 13 (27th, TIE)

2020 Giveaways:

• INT: 4 (1st)
• FUM: 5 (7th, TIE)
• TOT: 9 (1st, TIE)

2020 Differential:

• +4
• RANK: 10th (TIE)

 

[sschind]

One might be able to argue that Z-Dog has had a bit of a down year as well. Sure, he has quietly accumulated 10 1/2 sacks, but for me, he doesn't seem to be as big of a presence as he was last season. Possibly its the energy that I feel is lacking from him, Preston and pretty much the whole defense. Sure, they get excited (for themselves) when they get a sack, pick, etc. but otherwise, this Packer defense just seems to lack energy and enthusiasm. I put that mostly on coaching.

I put it on Rodgers.

 

[easyk83]

This pretty well sums up how I feel:

"At this point, Green Bay’s defensive issues might entirely fall on their coach. Stud defensive tackle Kenny Clark is heating up, safeties Darnell Savage and Adrian Amos are on fire. Meanwhile, cornerback Jair Alexander is playing at an All-Pro level and this pass rush has 14 sacks and the third-highest sack rate (11.02%) in the past three games. If Green Bay could find a solid defensive coordinator, this would easily be the NFC’s best team. In terms of talent, this unit deserves to be higher in our NFL defense rankings."

NFL defense rankings: Los Angeles Rams surge into No. 1 spot, Pittsburgh Steelers fall into Week 15 : Sportsnaut

I cant reload the article but there is one from three days ago on Packernews.com about the Packers turning to Krys Barnes for the Mic due to communication and alignment breakdowns which have been happening whenever the duties have been assigned to Kirksey. Is it possible that our problem, or some of it, is on field leadership?

 

[easyk83]

I put it on Rodgers.

Aaron's body language and facial expressions no doubt.

With respect to Z lest we forget Kenny Clark was absent for a couple of games and then limited with his nagging groin injury and appears to be just getting to his old self. I wonder how the increased sack production tracks with his improved play, presence and the commit he demands from opposing offenses.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Is it possible that our problem, or some of it, is on field leadership?

Possible, but when you consider we were having a lot of the same issues with Martinez being the "mic or QB of the defense", I start to think its coaching. I will admit, I really like when the Packers gave the DC job to Pettine, but a lot of that might of had to do with the "anyone is better than Capers" I was feeling. Pettine has been given quite a bit of Free Agent and draft talent to work with, yet his units seem to play undisciplined, uninspired and underwhelming football most of the time. If I am Murphy and Gute, at the end of the season I am saying "We found our head coach and offensive mind in MLF, now we just have to do the same with the defense and special teams."

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I put it on Rodgers.

I blame Crosby, overpaid jerk!

 

[easyk83]

Possible, but when you consider we were having a lot of the same issues with Martinez being the "mic or QB of the defense", I start to think its coaching. I will admit, I really like when the Packers gave the DC job to Pettine, but a lot of that might of had to do with the "anyone is better than Capers" I was feeling. Pettine has been given quite a bit of Free Agent and draft talent to work with, yet his units seem to play undisciplined, uninspired and underwhelming football most of the time. If I am Murphy and Gute, at the end of the season I am saying "We found our head coach and offensive mind in MLF, now we just have to do the same with the defense and special teams."

For me the grace period is over but if the unit finishes well this season I would give him another year with the understanding that the defense needs to turn into a consistently good unit or thats unit with an in season firing possible. We've invested too much draft and FA capital into the unit for anything less than say a top ten scoring unit. The reason for my thinking is that the player development pipeline seems to be working its just the overall unified product, which very well could be due to Pettine's deficiencies.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

For me the grace period is over but if the unit finishes well this season I would give him another year with the understanding that the defense needs to turn into a consistently good unit or thats unit with an in season firing possible.

I hope I am wrong, but I think our defense will continue to struggle against average and above offenses. When the Packers get in trouble is when the offense runs up against a really good defense and can't put as many points on the board and the defense can't give them the support by keeping the score close.

While I understand what you are saying, "IF, the defense improves in the next 6-7 games, Pettine might have another season in Green Bay". I just don't expect to see a big enough improvement to warrant giving Pettine a 4th season.

 

[jetfixer]

Even though everyone wanted a WR, just imagine a good DL or ILB with those first picks.

 

[tynimiller]

Even though everyone wanted a WR, just imagine a good DL or ILB with those first picks.

At that position, and with what Gary is illustrating, there is zero reason to imagine another player picked instead. Dude is straight making us better.