Packers 1st round selection, #12 overall: Rashan Gary, DE

[gbgary]

I defended the Gary pick when it has happened and have continued to defend him against critics. If anything, I am biased in his favor. But I timed it because I saw 6 seconds out there, and that seemed wrong. 4.2 still isn't great, but it's much better than 6.

And yes, that does matter. Because most of the time that a QB has over 4 seconds to get rid of the ball, he will. A 2.5 second sack is a great feat. And yet, I was still careful to highlight the aspects of that play that were exceptional.

me too but how many 3+, 4+ second sacks has rodgers given up? i'm sure whoever got them was being praised for their tenacity. let's do the same for gary. if gary had gone unblocked and got the sack in 1.5 seconds would that have been better?

 

[Dantés]

me too but how many 3+, 4+ second sacks has rodgers given up? i'm sure whoever got them was being praised for their tenacity. let's do the same for gary. if gary had gone unblocked and got the sack in 1.5 seconds would that have been better?

I praised what I found praiseworthy and critiqued what I found critique worthy.

 

[GleefulGary]

me too but how many 3+, 4+ second sacks has rodgers given up? i'm sure whoever got them was being praised for their tenacity. let's do the same for gary. if gary had gone unblocked and got the sack in 1.5 seconds would that have been better?

Yes, it would have been more impressive.

 

[GleefulGary]

Process > Results.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

me too but how many 3+, 4+ second sacks has rodgers given up? i'm sure whoever got them was being praised for their tenacity. let's do the same for gary. if gary had gone unblocked and got the sack in 1.5 seconds would that have been better?

Nope, the offense messing up (if he's unlocked) just shows that a guy can run straight and tackle Flacco (though it might be impressive for Pettine if it was the scheme that left him unblocked). Regarding the discussion on his sack, some, like me, just prefer context. If Trubisky throws a three yard dump off that the RB takes 55 yards for a TD, should ppl just celebrate the amazing 58 yard TD pass from Trubisky or should they look a little deeper?

There was concern about Gary's level of refinement and his ability to translate his athletic skills to the field. It's a big positive that he's earning more playing time, but looking at his first sack and trying to discover if it was a result of great pass rush moves or him not giving up and the coverage forcing the QB to hold the ball seems pretty fair.

 

[Mondio]

And the first person to get a hand on Flacco for Smiths strip sack was also Gary. He’s showing good stuff on the field and we have the luxury of bringing him along as he earns it. I see no problems with it.

 

[RRyder]

me too but how many 3+, 4+ second sacks has rodgers given up? i'm sure whoever got them was being praised for their tenacity. let's do the same for gary. if gary had gone unblocked and got the sack in 1.5 seconds would that have been better?

Uhmmm we criticize Rodgers for holding on to the ball too long all the freaking time and it's also part of the discussion on whether the oline is at fault or is it on Rodgers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yes, it would have been more impressive.

How would going unblocked and getting a sack be more impressive than fighting off 2 guys and getting a sack? Because it took less time? Really? Sign me up to play in the NFL, just don't let anyone block me and make sure that QB is a 90 year old woman, I got this!

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[AmishMafia]

How would going unblocked and getting a sack be more impressive than fighting off 2 guys and getting a sack?

Or a guy who is so quick, no blockers were able to set up on him is more impressive than a guy who 2 guys were able to get a chip on him. Lots of ways to spin this.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Or a guy who is so quick, no blockers were able to set up on him is more impressive than a guy who 2 guys were able to get a chip on him. Lots of ways to spin this.

Yeah, I guess I consider "being unblocked", is when the offense just screws up their assignments and leaves you an unabated path to the QB. Tomato-Tomatoe

 

[GleefulGary]

How would going unblocked and getting a sack be more impressive than fighting off 2 guys and getting a sack? Because it took less time? Really? Sign me up to play in the NFL, just don't let anyone block me and make sure that QB is a 90 year old woman, I got this!

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I'll be honest, I completely missed the "unblocked" part, only read the 1.5 seconds part, lol.

So yeah, my bad.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Watching a play like this, gives me hope that Gary is the quick athletic guy that the Packers drafted him for. His ability to take the correct angle, get there and make the tackle is impressive here.

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[gopkrs]

Watching a play like this, gives me hope that Gary is the quick athletic guy that the Packers drafted him for. His ability to take the correct angle, get there and make the tackle is impressive here.

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Very nice play and he just smothered him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Very nice play and he just smothered him.

I think the most impressive thing about that play is his quick decision as to what angle to take, he took the perfect angle through traffic and met Sanders right at the first spot he could get to for the tackle. A lot of players, especially young ones, might have pursued at a much different angle or even given up pursuit.

Just watched the play a few more times with an eye on other Packers. Will Redmond (#25) took a terrible angle and actually ended up taking out his own player, Tyler Lancaster. Although, one might say Redmond got enough of the runner to trip him up slightly.

 

[gopkrs]

Yeah, it looked to me like Redmond just over-reacted (did not keep his head on during the play) and so got juked when actually the ball carrier had nowhere else to go except where he did.

 

[greengold]

Well, gotta love LB Coach Mike Smith... "You can't be half pregnant."
https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/no-worries-for-gary-its-time-to-cut-it-loose/

Release the hounds!!!!!

 

[RepStar15]

What are your thoughts on trying Gary at ILB? He has freakish athletic ability.

 

[Dantés]

What are your thoughts on trying Gary at ILB? He has freakish athletic ability.

I would not even consider it.

 

[gopkrs]

What are your thoughts on trying Gary at ILB? He has freakish athletic ability.

It seems possible to me. I wonder if he has the mental toughness that it would take to play there. Middle linebackers are a special breed imho. I remember Pittsburgh had a 290 pounder at inside linebacker and he was an all star. Maybe all pro.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It seems possible to me. I wonder if he has the mental toughness that it would take to play there. Middle linebackers are a special breed imho. I remember Pittsburgh had a 290 pounder at inside linebacker and he was an all star. Maybe all pro.

I can think of no Steeler ILB or MLB of note who tipped the scales at more than 240 lbs., give or take.

The key characteristic you look for in an MLB/ILB is read-and-react, or instincts if you prefer that term. Players don't pop out of the womb with it. That ability is honed over years. While you might look at Gary's size/strength/speed combination and see a guy who can play the position, you'd suffer a lot of pain for a long time from all those wrong first steps. We've already seen him misread a play doing something as simple as a short drop and end up chasing down the field.

If all a guy has done is play the line or the edge, his knowledge of the field is what's in front of him. Experience in coverage concepts and developing "feel" in a position that demands 360 degree awareness is limited or entirely foreign. You can even look at some top college prospects and wonder how they'll transition. With some of those guys you can go through an entire game tape and not see them straying far from the line of scrimmage. And it's hard enough for college ILB/MLB transitioning from a bunch of read-option/spread/RPO/whatnot to defending pro offenses with greater speed and sophistication.

In short, no, never.

 

[GleefulGary]

What are your thoughts on trying Gary at ILB? He has freakish athletic ability.

This isn't Madden.

 

[gopkrs]

I can think of no Steeler ILB or MLB of note who tipped the scales at more than 240 lbs., give or take.

The key characteristic you look for in an MLB/ILB is read-and-react, or instincts if you prefer that term. Players don't pop out of the womb with it. That ability is honed over years. While you might look at Gary's size/strength/speed combination and see a guy who can play the position, you'd suffer a lot of pain for a long time from all those wrong first steps. We've already seen him misread a play doing something as simple as a short drop and end up chasing down the field.

If all a guy has done is play the line or the edge, his knowledge of the field is what's in front of him. Experience in coverage concepts and developing "feel" in a position that demands 360 degree awareness is limited or entirely foreign. You can even look at some top college prospects and wonder how they'll transition. With some of those guys you can go through an entire game tape and not see them straying far from the line of scrimmage. And it's hard enough for college ILB/MLB transitioning from a bunch of read-option/spread/RPO/whatnot to defending pro offenses with greater speed and sophistication.

In short, no, never.

I exaggerated on accident. Levon Kirkland was 6' 1" and 270. pro bowl 2x and all pro 1x. Quite a bit less poundage but shorter also. Don't know who is faster/quicker. With a complimentary inside backer that was good against the pass; I could see a possibility. Not that I would be planning this next year on it as far as free agency and draft. I could be wrong, but I thought Gary backed away from the line of scrimmage quite a bit at Michigan.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I can think of no Steeler ILB or MLB of note who tipped the scales at more than 240 lbs., give or take.

The key characteristic you look for in an MLB/ILB is read-and-react, or instincts if you prefer that term. Players don't pop out of the womb with it. That ability is honed over years. While you might look at Gary's size/strength/speed combination and see a guy who can play the position, you'd suffer a lot of pain for a long time from all those wrong first steps. We've already seen him misread a play doing something as simple as a short drop and end up chasing down the field.

If all a guy has done is play the line or the edge, his knowledge of the field is what's in front of him. Experience in coverage concepts and developing "feel" in a position that demands 360 degree awareness is limited or entirely foreign. You can even look at some top college prospects and wonder how they'll transition. With some of those guys you can go through an entire game tape and not see them straying far from the line of scrimmage. And it's hard enough for college ILB/MLB transitioning from a bunch of read-option/spread/RPO/whatnot to defending pro offenses with greater speed and sophistication.

In short, no, never.

Gary is too big and too slow for today’s ILB position. In addition to the attributes you list above, they need sideline-to-sideline speed and no matter how athletic a guy is, that tells me max weight is around 250, TOPS. Today’s ILB looks more like a strong S, and some of them top out at 230, 235 lbs. So I don’t think Gary would cut it.

He could evolve to be a player like Z, roaming behind the DL, but still an Edge player or pure DL.

If there is an answer for GB this year at ILB, I think it comes from FA and not the draft (unless they could get Simmons, which they can’t).

 

[HardRightEdge]

I exaggerated on accident. Levon Kirkland was 6' 1" and 270. pro bowl 2x and all pro 1x. Quite a bit less poundage but shorter also. Don't know who is faster/quicker. With a complimentary inside backer that was good against the pass; I could see a possibility. Not that I would be planning this next year on it as far as free agency and draft. I could be wrong, but I thought Gary backed away from the line of scrimmage quite a bit at Michigan.

Kirkland measured 240 lbs. at the Combine and ran a 4.92 in the 40. I don't think he got faster after putting on another 30 lbs. That doesn't make him a bad player in his day, quite the contrary. It's just the game has changed a lot in the last 20 - 30 years.

Gary ran a 4.58 in underwear. I seem to recall somebody saying that was the fastest time ever run by a guy at his weight (277 lbs.) or greater. That's certainly plenty fast. However, if you put a guy in a position where he doesn't have a clue what he's looking at his quickness goes out of the window and his field speed drops like a rock.

 

[OldSchool101]

Another aspect that makes it tough to transition is an ILB has to be able to cover sideline to sideline and rush and drop. That takes an elite level of stamina and guys over around 260+ rarely have the endurance level needed. Gary is closer to 280 and that’s just too heavy

If he was going to make a change, a more realistic one would be to add 10-15 pounds and play 3T. Yes got the large frame to easily carry that weight at just over 6’4.75. He’s already got the lower body explosion and upper strength (was it 26 reps?) and with some good specific Pro-level training he could play next to or opposite Kenny. We spent too much draft resource wise to be using him only in a relief capacity. You get a guy weighing 295 that penetrate into the backfield and disrupt, plus hold the point of attack or can still chase a QB across the field in that 4.7 sec range? Let him do what he did at MI and be a disruptor and let the Smiths get the accolades. I’ll stand down and let everyone just look at pure stats and degrade him and never say a word about it. I just wanna Win

I do know he needed refining at this level, so they knew they had a project. But let’s integrate him more, he needs to be in a capacity where’s he’s up around that 50%+ snap count going forward. Anything under that is either poor utilization or a gross lack of confidence in his ability.