Packers 1st round selection, #12 overall: Rashan Gary, DE

[Pokerbrat2000]

While I like most of your posts, you do sometimes take a bit of a post and when quoting it lose the total context. You did this here. My point being (in the entire post I made) was that taking just stats for a point can be misleading. I follow the Badgers every game, loved JJ and knew what he was. But if you only went on his stats, you would have no idea how much he impacted every game. Our FO obviously feels similar here. But stats do not tell you everything about a player, Brady being a 6th rounder.
TL;DR, I think you just agreed with me.

On Wisconsin! My guess is there are not many here that have followed the Pack and Bucky longer than me, although I am happy that there is a larger number than I would have thought here that have.

Next up, Brat, T.J.? Can you outlove me on him? J/K. But Derek? J/K, he is one of the few reasons I watch the Chargers if the Pack is not on. Badger homer here and not ashamed to say it.

I guess we were both trying to make the same point, I think somewhere along the way I didn't make myself clear enough or misunderstood your intentions. We are in full agreement on JJ, I too have been following Badger Football, Basketball and Hockey way too many years and actually spent a ton of time on the "inside" as Bucky himself. The Watt Brothers are all awesome and maybe I am a homer, but I wanted all 3 brothers in Green Bay.

Anyway, yes JJ as we both pointed out "only" had 10.5 sacks at Wisconsin, but I thought it was fair to point out the fact that he only played 2 years there and really it wasn't until his second and final year that he started to show a ton of promise as a DE. So I think we are both correct in saying "it wasn't just his sack stats that made him a high pick and an eventual FHOF player, but many other factors."

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

Your a (I assume) guy I would like to have a few drinks with when I go to Green Bay (again assuming you live there) Brat. I really like your passion for Wisconsin football.

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

I guess we were both trying to make the same point, I think somewhere along the way I didn't make myself clear enough or misunderstood your intentions. We are in full agreement on JJ, I too have been following Badger Football, Basketball and Hockey way too many years and actually spent a ton of time on the "inside" as Bucky himself. The Watt Brothers are all awesome and maybe I am a homer, but I wanted all 3 brothers in Green Bay.

Anyway, yes JJ as we both pointed out "only" had 10.5 sacks at Wisconsin, but I thought it was fair to point out the fact that he only played 2 years there and really it wasn't until his second and final year that he started to show a ton of promise as a DE. So I think we are both correct in saying "it wasn't just his sack stats that made him a high pick and an eventual FHOF player, but many other factors."

I actually had to do some thinking when I posted my post, because of the two years, but I decided to post anyway because if we just went off of stats, JJ would look less than stellar. I have no idea if Gary will even turn out to be really good, let alone great, but just want to see if he can get his unreal ability ( like we saw with J.J.) come to fruition. But I will enjoy watching his development, unless I don’t! I think we have very similar feelings on our teams. Now I need the hockey team to get back to where I have always seen them. It is unusual for the BB team to do better than the skaters. I like the BB team to be good, but I played hockey and grew up in north western Wisconsin, so hockey is in my blood too. Hard for me to see us not being in the upper tiers. On Wisconsin.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Your a (I assume) guy I would like to have a few drinks with when I go to Green Bay (again assuming you live there) Brat. I really like your passion from Wisconsin football.

I am all male or at least that is what the tags on my clothes say.

I am actually near Madison, was born and raised in Madison, as well as went to school at the UW. But yeah, beer in Green Bay, sounds awesome. Was just up their for the Viking game and I think I am going back next Thursday for the Eagles game.

I used to have season tickets for both Badger Football and Hockey, but life got busy, seat license's got pricey and now I just pick and choose the games I want to see. Michigan is going to be a good one!

#OnWisconsin

 

[PackerDNA]

Gary's snaps have been extremely limited. Why not? We have the Smith Bros. tearing it up completely. Let the guy learn from some guys who know their way around opposing OL... I like that they are moving him along slowly, and, man, he's had big production on the pressures side of the ledger, with somewhere around 10 snaps total...

All well and good. However, the point remains. Do you want the Smiths doing over 90% of the snaps every week? How long until their performance declines, or worse yet, they end up out injured?

 

[greengold]

PackerDNA, that's nuts. They are bringing him along the way they want to. Maybe talk to Mike Pettine if you want him to get more snaps. What, you're questioning Pettine, or Gary? Take a breath and just enjoy this. Gary will develop just fine, the way they want him to develop. He's entering into a new position in a new scheme as a rookie, and we are talking about the first 2 games? Seriously?

Did you see he had 2 QB pressures in just 6 snaps v. CHI?

Did you see he was the one who pressured Trubisky on the Adrian Amos game changing INT?

 

[PackerDNA]

PackerDNA, that's nuts. They are bringing him along the way they want to. Maybe talk to Mike Pettine if you want him to get more snaps. What, you're questioning Pettine, or Gary? Take a breath and just enjoy this. Gary will develop just fine, the way they want him to develop. He's entering into a new position in a new scheme as a rookie, and we are talking about the first 2 games? Seriously?

Did you see he had 2 QB pressures in just 6 snaps v. CHI?

Did you see he was the one who pressured Trubisky on the Adrian Amos game changing INT?

What the hell are you talkin about? Whats nuts about the basic point that I made?
I'm not questioning anybody. it's a simple fact that their improvement and play time has to increase quickly because you can't have your two top players on the field every play every week. Their production will decline. And tired players get injured. Getting to the point here if you just say hello or the sun comes up in the morning you get slammed.

 

[greengold]

What the hell are you talkin about? Whats nuts about the basic point that I made?
I'm not questioning anybody. it's a simple fact that their improvement and play time has to increase quickly because you can't have your two top players on the field every play every week. Their production will decline. And tired players get injured. Getting to the point here if you just say hello or the sun comes up in the morning you get slammed.

Wasn't intending to bust your balls on that, but I could have used more tact. My apologies.

It is just week 3. Gary has had a total of 20 snaps in the first two games. Maybe Pettine wanted to see his new Smith Bros. a bit more? Those were both important games, and, looking at the way LaFleur and Pettine stuck with their MOST trusted players through both games I found to be quite telling in the importance of coming out with Ws. There are many reasons the staff makes the moves that we see on the field that we are completely unaware of as fans. While Gary hasn't lit up the board, who does in 20 snaps?

Don't forget, the Smith Bros. are new! I'm assuming Pettine wanted to see what he's got to work with. As a DC, who wouldn't??? I'm sure both Fackrell and Gary will get more reps along the way here, probably very soon.

 

[PackerDNA]

Wasn't intending to bust your balls on that, but I could have used more tact. My apologies.

It is just week 3. Gary has had a total of 20 snaps in the first two games. Maybe Pettine wanted to see his new Smith Bros. a bit more? Those were both important games, and, looking at the way LaFleur and Pettine stuck with their MOST trusted players through both games I found to be quite telling in the importance of coming out with Ws. There are many reasons the staff makes the moves that we see on the field that we are completely unaware of as fans. While Gary hasn't lit up the board, who does in 20 snaps?

Don't forget, the Smith Bros. are new! I'm assuming Pettine wanted to see what he's got to work with. As a DC, who wouldn't??? I'm sure both Fackrell and Gary will get more reps along the way here, probably very soon.

Appreciated GreenGold. I think the thing is that we're talking about two different things here. I have no problem with Pettine or how things are being done or how they're gone so far. Simply that Gary and others are going to have to play well enough to give the Smiths some breathers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Appreciated GreenGold. I think the thing is that we're talking about two different things here. I have no problem with Pettine or how things are being done or how they're gone so far. Simply that Gary and others are going to have to play well enough to give the Smiths some breathers.

While I agree with your concern, it is what it is until Gary gets a bit more seasoned. I am more worried about what happens if either Smith or both go down with injuries. With Fackrell, I think Pettine is doing a good job rotating him in and as Gary improves, I think he will see even more snaps. At this point, it would appear Fackrell is 3rd on the depth chart if one of the Smiths goes down.

Snap Count %'s after 2 games:

P. Smith: 93%
Z. Smith: 89%
K. Fackrell: 32%
R. Gary: 15%

So yes, both Smith's are going to need more breathers and I think the eventual goal would be to get them both around 80% or even less.

I have an even better solution, lets get the offense rolling, so the defense doesn't have to be out there so much.

 

[PackerDNA]

While I agree with your concern, it is what it is until Gary gets a bit more seasoned. I am more worried about what happens if either Smith or both go down with injuries. With Fackrell, I think Pettine is doing a good job rotating him in and as Gary improves, I think he will see even more snaps. At this point, it would appear Fackrell is 3rd on the depth chart if one of the Smiths goes down.

Snap Count %'s after 2 games:

P. Smith: 93%
Z. Smith: 89%
K. Fackrell: 32%
R. Gary: 15%

So yes, both Smith's are going to need more breathers and I think the eventual goal would be to get them both around 80% or even less.

I have an even better solution, lets get the offense rolling, so the defense doesn't have to be out there so much.

Spot on. I'd like to see a 30 point lead early in the fourth quarter and then bench The Smiths the rest of the game.

 

[gbgary]

Gary's going to be taking khalil frackrell's snaps by mid season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Gary's going to be taking khalil frackrell's snaps by mid season.

I thought gbgary was taking Rodgers place?

 

[gbgary]

I thought gbgary was taking Rodgers place?

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no. our turnover ratio would be in the minus, double-digit, range before you could say "bring in the back up."

 

[Mondio]

I don't remember well probably, but it seems 10-20 years ago your studs played almost every down. How often did Reggie white come off the field? I would need someone to look that up, I don't know.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't remember well probably, but it seems 10-20 years ago your studs played almost every down. How often did Reggie white come off the field? I would need someone to look that up, I don't know.

I think that is becoming less and less with the front 7 on defense, maybe in an attempt to keep them as fresh as possible but probably more importantly, down and distant dependent on who is out there. Meanwhile, Amos, Savage, Alexander and Martinez on Defense and Rodgers, Bahk, Linsley, Turner and Bulaga have played 100% of their possible snaps.

 

[greengold]

Not to mention, Preston and Z are known for their durability. That's a big factor in Gutes getting them both signed, they are always available. They know how to take care of themselves and take pride in being ready.

 

[RRyder]

I don't remember well probably, but it seems 10-20 years ago your studs played almost every down. How often did Reggie white come off the field? I would need someone to look that up, I don't know.

And 10-20 years ago NBA players played 82 games if they were healthy. Today teams realize fresher legs are better then tired ones

 

[Mondio]

And 10-20 years ago NBA players played 82 games if they were healthy. Today teams realize fresher legs are better then tired ones

There's enough stoppage in an NFL game, I don't think it's quite the same comparison. They play 1 side of the ball and are resting more than they're moving. I don't think having your best paid and best performing players on the field 90% of the time should become an anomaly.

 

[RRyder]

I think that is becoming less and less with the front 7 on defense, maybe in an attempt to keep them as fresh as possible but probably more importantly, down and distant dependent on who is out there. Meanwhile, Amos, Savage, Alexander and Martinez on Defense and Rodgers, Bahk, Linsley, Turner and Bulaga have played 100% of their possible snaps.

Items mainly a in the trenches thing on D because of the energy that gets expended (versus o linemen or the secondary on d) and it's mainly done because once a guy gets fatigued in the trenches during a game it takes a LONG time to get that energy back.

To use an arbitrary points scale you can keep a guy at a 8-9 energy level all game by rotating him out a couple snaps every series but if a guy say gets to a 5 on the fatigue scale he probably isnt getting back to a 7 even if you sit him a quarter or two

 

[RRyder]

There's enough stoppage in an NFL game, I don't think it's quite the same comparison. They play 1 side of the ball and are resting more than they're moving. I don't think having your best paid and best performing players on the field 90% of the time should become an anomaly.

See my post right above this one.

Also the comparison is times change when the people in charge understand a better way of operating

 

[AmishMafia]

There's enough stoppage in an NFL game, I don't think it's quite the same comparison. They play 1 side of the ball and are resting more than they're moving. I don't think having your best paid and best performing players on the field 90% of the time should become an anomaly.

There are abut 75 plays per side on average NFL game. Each play last 4 sec on average. That 300 seconds of activity or 5 min spread over 3 hrs. That sounds a lot less than what it is.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Items mainly a in the trenches thing on D because of the energy that gets expended (versus o linemen or the secondary on d) and it's mainly done because once a guy gets fatigued in the trenches during a game it takes a LONG time to get that energy back.

To use an arbitrary points scale you can keep a guy at a 8-9 energy level all game by rotating him out a couple snaps every series but if a guy say gets to a 5 on the fatigue scale he probably isnt getting back to a 7 even if you sit him a quarter or two

Agreed and I think in the case of defensive players that are expending a lot of energy pushing through other guys, making tackles etc. they might be the players who benefit the most from getting to rest every once in awhile. OL are engage in blocking, but they aren't tackling anyone.

I have to think the goal with drafting Gary was to eventually have 3 solid OLB/EDGE players, that to me is a much smarter plan than just having 1 or 2.

 

[RRyder]

There are abut 75 plays per side on average NFL game. Each play last 4 sec on average. That 300 seconds of activity or 5 min spread over 3 hrs. That sounds a lot less than what it is.

Anyone that's ever wrestled should understand just how much energy it takes to try an maneuver another person all while expending extra energy creating to where the play is going

 

[RRyder]

Agreed and I think in the case of defensive players that are expending a lot of energy pushing through other guys, making tackles etc. they might be the players who benefit the most from getting to rest every once in awhile. OL are engage in blocking, but they aren't tackling anyone.

I have to think the goal with drafting Gary was to eventually have 3 solid OLB/EDGE players, that to me is a much smarter plan than just having 1 or 2.

Dont forget that you expend much more energy reacting (like on the D line) versus executing a single assignment (like on the o line). Its why defenses get tired when offenses dont.

I didnt like the Gary pick, and still dont, but yeah that was definitely the plan to have 3 guys at minimum to rotate