Overall Graft Grades, PF "experts"

[GleefulGary]

Newsflash!!! Mike McCarthy is not here anymore so that speculation is irrelevant.

So I will counter that speculation by saying Matt LaFleur would know how to utilize his talents.

1) I was using that as an example of how situations can determine whether a player succeeds or not, and is therefore a "good" or "bad" draft choice.

2) I was a proponent of adding Campbell to the roster, so I'm not sure what you're talking about?

3) Honest question. Are you Brandon's burner account?

 

[Ogsponge]

All I know is I hate the Steelers, Shazier, Watt, Bush...

 

[GleefulGary]

And there was no need to bring up that example because McCarthy is not here anymore.

I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse, or if you just don't get it.

 

[Mondio]

If you think an example clarifying a point is irrelevant then you don't understand anywhere close to perfectly.

Does that surprise you? I think the only thing he did was clarify once again, he had no clue what you were getting at. I'm not sure you could spell it out any more clearly, and i'm not sure it would matter.

 

[GleefulGary]

Of course we won't know for sure until it occurs. But whats the point of posting a draft grade of the draft 3 years ago? Nobody does it because everybody already knows. Do we need to be told by a draft analyst that Joey Bosa was a great pick or does everyone pretty much understand that?

I got into it about 10 years ago with a certain draft analyst on ESPN who's article titled 'Draft Grades' gave no draft grades but explained why you had to wait 3 years. My final post was 'if a stock broker had a stock analyst who told him 'some stocks go up and some go down, you never know. But, I can tell you which ones you should have bought 3 years ago. That's a pretty bad analyst.' My posting rights and posts were removed within an hour.

I think I get what you're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong), and I get it. I should have clarified further.

I have no issue with issuing grades right now. It's a fun exercise. What I meant was that we won't really have an accurate grade for a couple of years. Yes, it will probably be obvious by then, which some might call pointless, but I wouldn't. But I don't have any issue with current grades at all. I think it's good for people to put their money where their mouths are.

 

[GleefulGary]

One of the things I dislike about draft grades is that you see a few C's, more B's, and a lot of A's. People are always optimistic about the draft, I'm no different, but I'm going to try to be a little more realistic based on my standards.

I would say this draft is a solid C+. Just above average. That is more a reflection on what I view the drafts overall talent to be. I actually like all the guys we drafted.

What I viewed as the top tier was gone by the time we picked. I think we drafted a player with the best chance of becoming a top tier in Gary, but whether it's realized is anybody's guess. Gary played out of position and injured last year, taking a role that mainly had him double teamed and letting Winovich free. Incredibly rare athlete. Only player at 270+ to run a sub 4.6. His floor is a good run defender with pass rushing flashes. Ceiling is Jadaveon Clowney.

Savage is a good FS. Probably comes in as the best rookie on the team.

Jenkins will fight to start at LG, and can backup almost any position. His versatility is reminiscent of JC Tretter, but with better strength.

Sternberger seems like a solid H-Back/TE. I could see LaFleur playing him a little at "FB" his rookie year. Needs to improve his strength in all facets of the game. Should peak at around a 60 catch a game guy.

The other rounds I don't worry about too much. KeKe had a shot at becoming a starter someday, or just an ok rotational guy. The CB from Toledo is probably nothing more than ST's and spot depth. Dexter should be RB2 if he can learn how to pass block. Summer provides good ST play and depth. That's about all you can ask for in the 7th.

So yeah, overall just slightly above average. A C+ grade.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Of course we won't know for sure until it occurs. But whats the point of posting a draft grade of the draft 3 years ago? Nobody does it because everybody already knows. Do we need to be told by a draft analyst that Joey Bosa was a great pick or does everyone pretty much understand that?

I got into it about 10 years ago with a certain draft analyst on ESPN who's article titled 'Draft Grades' gave no draft grades but explained why you had to wait 3 years. My final post was 'if a stock broker had a stock analyst who told him 'some stocks go up and some go down, you never know. But, I can tell you which ones you should have bought 3 years ago. That's a pretty bad analyst.' My posting rights and posts were removed within an hour.

I think it really depends on what you plan on doing with that information (draft grades) and how you apply it. From the sounds of a few posters, Gute should be fired after this draft. That would be the people that I would say "don't grade a draft until you see the results". When in my head I am thinking "don't judge Gute on this draft, until you see the results. But yeah, grading the draft on perceived perceptions on how you may think it will go, great, as long as you keep in mind, you are just making your best educated guess.

Using your stock broker analysis, you probably wouldn't fire your stock broker if he gave you 8 stock tips, especially if he explained why he was suggesting them. Now if you took his advice and your portfolio went South over a 1-3 year period, you probably would fire him or think twice about what he suggests next time. If you hated his 8 tips right out of the gate, you probably should question why he was your broker to begin with. But just like a stock's performance over a 1 week period shouldn't lead you to the conclusion that its a total winner or loser, drafted players really shouldn't be fully judged until they have had a chance to prove whether they were a good or bad investment.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

1) I was using that as an example of how situations can determine whether a player succeeds or not, and is therefore a "good" or "bad" draft choice.

2) I was a proponent of adding Campbell to the roster, so I'm not sure what you're talking about?

3) Honest question. Are you Brandon's burner account?

1. Well fair enough, but might have been better to use an example of a coach not tied to the Packers like Jay Gruden or Bruce Arians which may have better illustrated the point

2. Glad that's settled

3. While I admit both Brandon and I have been super high on Campbell, I'd point some areas I disagreed with him on:

For example, last year I was high on Ridley, I don't believe he was. Also, pretty sure he was in the pro McDaniels camp when that discussion was going on, and I don't think I need to remind any posters that I practically took the lead role of the anti McDaniels brigade.

Anyway, I think this is all pretty cleared up.

 

[Schack2]

NFL.com states grade A for all rounds

Guess it’s all how you look at it.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...draft-final-quicksnap-grades-for-all-32-teams

 

[Heyjoe4]

With Bush and White gone in the top 10, along with Hockenson, I think Gluten made the best choice. A lot of people were clamoring for Brian Burns, but with his slim build, he’ll spend a lot of time in the trainer’s room. Gluten took the BPA on D.

 

[Fat Dogs]

We addressed O-line, Safety, and line-backer. We didn’t waste a pick on D.K. (Like a lot of these ding bats wanted to) and the temptation of Drew Lock being drafted 2 picks before Jenkins was a huge relief. Draft grade = SUCCESS!

 

[brandon2348]

Oh I understood perfectly what he was saying, and it's irrelevant because Mike McCarthy would not be utilizing him if we had drafted him. It would be Matt LaFleur.


I will say if MM was still the coach and we had gotten Campbell, I would be worried about him trying another Ty Montgomery type of experiment with him and ruining him in the process. That's something I'd have been adamantly against. But I'm pretty sure LaFleur would not do that.

Your wasting your time. They will never GET IT. All they have the ability to do is regurgitate Daniel Jerimiah or Zierlien. They live in some fantasy of trying to re-invent the Baltimore Ravens. They can’t project.

This appears to be national or even global fan base on here which is fine but people in Green Bay that I have talked too(many) are not happy with this draft overall. Many believe the 1st round was an F-D GRADE all things considered and I heard the name PARRIS CAMPBELL come out of several mouths without me even mentioning him. I can’t speak for other parts of Wisconsin but the mood here isn’t all that great. Nobody feels like we one anything when it comes to the draft. There are some that have a glimmering hope that Savage will become a premiere safety but temper expectations with that taking time.

The Packers late round picks IMO pushed this draft to a C GRADE but then it gets pushed down back to SOLID D for failing to address the biggest need which is get Aaron Rodgers some weapons. Something they did when this team was SUCCESSFUL. We truly missed a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY and it will be felt. Make no mistake about that.

 

[Dantés]

Your wasting your time. They will never GET IT. All they have the ability to do is regurgitate Daniel Jerimiah or Zierlien. They live in some fantasy of trying to re-invent the Baltimore Ravens. They can’t project.

This appears to be national or even global fan base on here which is fine but people in Green Bay that I have talked too(many) are not happy with this draft overall. Many believe the 1st round was an F-D GRADE all things considered and I heard the name PARRIS CAMPBELL come out of several mouths without me even mentioning him. I can’t speak for other parts of Wisconsin but the mood here isn’t all that great. Nobody feels like we one anything when it comes to the draft. There are some that have a glimmering hope that Savage will become a premiere safety but temper expectations with that taking time.

The Packers late round picks IMO pushed this draft to a C GRADE but then it gets pushed down back to SOLID D for failing to address the biggest need which is get Aaron Rodgers some weapons. Something they did when this team was SUCCESSFUL. We truly missed a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY and it will be felt. Make no mistake about that.

Sir, this is Wendy's.

 

[gopkrs]

Maybe off topic but what bugs me is when the experts on tv say something like..."I think the Raiders had the best draft." Or I think the Cardinals had the best draft." Well...duh. One of them had 3 picks in the first round and the other the 1st pick. I just think the best draft should be the team that did the best with what they had to work with and how they addressed their needs. Taking into consideration trades. But that is probably too many variables for the talking heads to deal with.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With Bush and White gone in the top 10, along with Hockenson, I think Gluten made the best choice.Gluten took the BPA on D.

Winner winner chicken dinner. The board didn't fall like a lot of Packer fans hoped it would. Gary may not be the "safe" pick that some think Wilkins or Lawrence might have been. However, I think his upside is so much bigger than either of theirs and besides those 2 guys, I didn't see anyone else available that right now, I would call better or a difference maker.

Let's face it, Gute swung for the fences with Gary. If Gary turns into the player that the Packers think he will be, mission accomplished. If he is a bust, well he will probably end up just like 5-10 other first rounders, some drafted ahead of him, some behind him.

When I hear people bit*h about the pick, I have to ask today and not in 3 years, who? Let's face it, the board fell in such a way that many of you that were unhappy with the Gary pick, would have been unhappy with any player the Packers picked at that point. Trade back you say? With what team and to obtain what player?

 

[OldSchool101]

The Packers late round picks IMO pushed this draft to a C GRADE but then it gets pushed down back to SOLID D for failing to address the biggest need which is get Aaron Rodgers some weapons. Something they did when this team was SUCCESSFUL. We truly missed a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY and it will be felt. Make no mistake about that.

Actually the Sternberger pick at #75 was solid. We also did good job getting a premier C/OG at #44. Where we missed was trading away both 4ths because that dramatically limited our leverage.
There was one silver lining. Although you didn’t get your guy and I missed mine (Singleterry). We got Dexter Williams who really should’ve been picked in the late 3rd early 4th but lasted until pick #196. In my mind we got our 4th rounder back at minimum. Jamaal Williams just got himself some stiff competition back there and I think he’ll eventually get bumped to our #3 and used more in passing situations

 

[gopkrs]

Actually the Sternberger pick at #75 was solid. We also did good job getting a premier C/OG at #44. Where we missed was trading away both 4ths because that dramatically limited our leverage.
There was one silver lining. Although you didn’t get your guy and I missed mine (Singleterry). We got Dexter Williams who really should’ve been picked in the late 3rd early 4th but lasted until pick #196. In my mind we got our 4th rounder back at minimum. Jamaal Williams just got himself some stiff competition back there and I think he’ll eventually get bumped to our #3 and used more in passing situations

Just gotta disagree. I think we got the Free Safety we needed. And having to give up the two 4ths was the price. We are talking 1st round and best on our board at a position of need vs 4th round. I have no problem with that whatsoever!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just gotta disagree. I think we got the Free Safety we needed. And having to give up the two 4ths was the price. We are talking 1st round and best on our board at a position of need vs 4th round. I have no problem with that whatsoever!

I know you were responding to oldschool, but I had to chime in, since we are old buddies I think he was just saying it would have been nice to still have had the 2 4th rounders, but getting Williams in the 6th kind of made up for the loss. But yeah, if that was the only way to get Savage, I'm pretty happy with it and realize, we will never know if Savage would have still been there at #30.

 

[OldSchool101]

Just gotta disagree. I think we got the Free Safety we needed. And having to give up the two 4ths was the price. We are talking 1st round and best on our board at a position of need vs 4th round. I have no problem with that whatsoever!

That’s fine we got a great player and worked the draft calculator to our favor, but the cost was still 3 players and that’s quite a bit of capital used on one player.

I had 2 personal wants in this draft.

1. Replenish the Offense for once this decade
A. Protect AR first and foremost
B. Attempt to supply AR with some tools to use before later day 3 (where the scraps get picked over at WR, TE, RB)

2. Get at least one dominant D player in a draft that is leaning Defensive top heavy in order to put this D over the top.
A. Get a few defenders for future competition and depth at needed D positions.

We got some of 1A accomplished and minimally covered some aspects of 1B plus fulfilled 2 above. But as a whole missed the point overall regarding 1 above.

However anyway you swing it, we still spent 7/10 picks on Defense including both 1sts. On a typical draft calculator that’s 1,993 points for D and 689 for Offense. That lopsidedness has been going on now for a decade.

While we certainly need to look at both sides of the equation and I don’t think Savage is a bad player, if this was a marriage the divorce papers would’ve been filed after spending a #12, #30, #114 and #119 on only Defense day 1.

Dont take it the wrong way, I still want Savage to be ultra successful. I’m not one who will want my team to fail in order to prove a point either.

 

[Fat Dogs]

Actually the Sternberger pick at #75 was solid. We also did good job getting a premier C/OG at #44. Where we missed was trading away both 4ths because that dramatically limited our leverage.
There was one silver lining. Although you didn’t get your guy and I missed mine (Singleterry). We got Dexter Williams who really should’ve been picked in the late 3rd early 4th but lasted until pick #196. In my mind we got our 4th rounder back at minimum. Jamaal Williams just got himself some stiff competition back there and I think he’ll eventually get bumped to our #3 and used more in passing situations

It’s funny that most were in agreeance that safety was a HUGE priority and Savage has been mentioned but my understanding was because he was supposed to be a steal a few rounds later. I agree that losing those picks hurt us and to be honest since we went FS. I would much rather have had Adderley and the 4ths. Especially since we wouldn’t have had to take him at #30 but thats an unfair hindsight. That being said, I like that Gute had his pick of the position and took his top guy.

I also would have taken A.J. Brown at #44 because it was to good to pass up. I think we are all surprised that they didn’t do more on O but it will be all forgot if our second year receivers impress and we field a top tier D. I’m very optimistic on both of these happening.

 

[Mondio]

Winner winner chicken dinner. The board didn't fall like a lot of Packer fans hoped it would. Gary may not be the "safe" pick that some think Wilkins or Lawrence might have been. However, I think his upside is so much bigger than either of theirs and besides those 2 guys, I didn't see anyone else available that right now, I would call better or a difference maker.

Let's face it, Gute swung for the fences with Gary. If Gary turns into the player that the Packers think he will be, mission accomplished. If he is a bust, well he will probably end up just like 5-10 other first rounders, some drafted ahead of him, some behind him.

When I hear people bit*h about the pick, I have to ask today and not in 3 years, who? Let's face it, the board fell in such a way that many of you that were unhappy with the Gary pick, would have been unhappy with any player the Packers picked at that point. Trade back you say? With what team and to obtain what player?

Exactly, Gute did 2 things people have been *****ing about for years and they're still complaining. #1, They took a guy with some risk (at least to us) and a very high ceiling to be a difference maker and 2nd, they identified a guy and went and got him. They didn't wait to see what was available when they picked etc, they made the decision that he was going to be a packer and made it happen.

Much of my lackluster opinion of Gary was that I never really considered him a candidate prior and then saw a bunch of the names I wanted go off the board one by one at around pick 6-7 right up until we picked. I had an overall feeling of "well ****" but i'm better now

 

[XPack]

Gary may not be the "safe" pick that some think Wilkins or Lawrence might have been.

This is reason why I disagree with our picks. We are at a stage in ARs career where we need to look at players who can perform immediately. Not really a time to be gambling on picks. If it's a boom, then all's well. But if a bust, we may have wasted one addition to get the SB when AR12 is here.

This year, I'd Definitely think less gambling may well be the way to go.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is reason why I disagree with our picks. We are at a stage in ARs career where we need to look at players who can perform immediately. Not really a time to be gambling on picks. If it's a boom, then all's well. But if a bust, we may have wasted one addition to get the SB when AR12 is here.

This year, I'd Definitely think less gambling may well be the way to go.

I would respectfully disagree that the Packers only keep Aaron Rodgers longevity in mind when building this team. There are no guarantees on how long Rodgers will be around, nor does drafting a "safer" pick, especially on defense change much in regards to the next 3-6 years. Anyone can bust and aren't people complaining that the reason we aren't competing for Super Bowls is because TT settled for "average"?

Also, I get the impression that people want to make Gary out as a complete project and not a plug and play guy, while thinking a few guys selected after him are going to be immediate full time producers. I am hopeful that Gary surprises those people in the fact that he will see immediate action and as Pettine, Jerry Montgomery and the rest of the Packer coaching staff works with him, his play will get even better, which by the way, is the hope for most rookies. I still don't see anyone that was selected after Gary that makes me say "OMG, the guy is a stud and long term is going to be much better than Gary."

 

[gopkrs]

I get the impression that some people on this board don't understand that Jenkins helps our offense.

 

[AmishMafia]

That’s fine we got a great player and worked the draft calculator to our favor, but the cost was still 3 players and that’s quite a bit of capital used on one player.

I had 2 personal wants in this draft.

1. Replenish the Offense for once this decade
A. Protect AR first and foremost
B. Attempt to supply AR with some tools to use before later day 3 (where the scraps get picked over at WR, TE, RB)

2. Get at least one dominant D player in a draft that is leaning Defensive top heavy in order to put this D over the top.
A. Get a few defenders for future competition and depth at needed D positions.

We got some of 1A accomplished and minimally covered some aspects of 1B plus fulfilled 2 above. But as a whole missed the point overall regarding 1 above.

However anyway you swing it, we still spent 7/10 picks on Defense including both 1sts. On a typical draft calculator that’s 1,993 points for D and 689 for Offense. That lopsidedness has been going on now for a decade.

While we certainly need to look at both sides of the equation and I don’t think Savage is a bad player, if this was a marriage the divorce papers would’ve been filed after spending a #12, #30, #114 and #119 on only Defense day 1.

Dont take it the wrong way, I still want Savage to be ultra successful. I’m not one who will want my team to fail in order to prove a point either.

While I agree with the balance on offense and defense, the nature of the draft is defensive players go early. You can still get good WRs, RBs and OL later in the draft. OLBs and DTs go sooner.

Offensively QBs and OTs are scooped up quickly, but lately OTs have slid. Not sure if it is a lack of talent available or a general trend.