Our porous secondary

[Cory]

First off I quit watching Star Wars along time ago Gakk, so please explain what that means?


Secondly Cory I didn't hear he was the "talk of the defense". Provide me a link please.

I also was using the "you don't know jack**** comment as a comeback to his little childish rant.


You want to debate it thats fine but Gakk would rather resort to childish comments instead, par for the course on here.

I ask you when the last time you saw Underwood play well? Not what you heard, what you saw. I eagerly await your response

Well here's the funny part, Pyle. I'm not the one who said he was the talk of the defense, but his marked improvement was part of the storylines. I'm just going by what the coaches who see him play every day say about him as a player. Oh, but that's not good because it's all just positive spin right? Of course you know he looked terrible because of a limited scrimmage for the fans. Riiiiiggghhhttt.

 

[porky88]

First off I quit watching Star Wars along time ago Gakk, so please explain what that means?


Secondly Cory I didn't hear he was the "talk of the defense". Provide me a link please.

I also was using the "you don't know jack**** comment as a comeback to his little childish rant.


You want to debate it thats fine but Gakk would rather resort to childish comments instead, par for the course on here.

I ask you when the last time you saw Underwood play well? Not what you heard, what you saw. I eagerly await your response

Well here's the funny part, Pyle. I'm not the one who said he was the talk of the defense, but his marked improvement was part of the storylines. I'm just going by what the coaches who see him play every day say about him as a player. Oh, but that's not good because it's all just positive spin right? Of course you know he looked terrible because of a limited scrimmage for the fans. Riiiiiggghhhttt.

I am the one who said he was the talk of the defense before he got hurt. It was close between him and Hodge.

It was the Packers training Camp Report on Fox 11 at 10. You can Google it and try to find a video. Majority of the play of the days that were on defense seemed to involve Underwood and there was a lot of talk about him on the show.

Check the Green Bay Press Gazette archives on it as well. Underwood was getting a lot PT with Manuel out and the general consensus is that he was doing quite well. Exceeding expectations by a lot is from what I gathered. That is why Green Bay was pretty let down with the injury and why he had to go on IR.

 

[pyledriver80]

I couldn't find it Porky. Not saying you are lying but the coaching staff said Boerighter was "playing great" early as well.


I'm going on what I saw with my own two eyes both last year and in the scrimmage. I tend to trust them over what coaches say.I just wasn't impressed. He may be good someday but the main point was he wasn't any better than Roman.

 

[Cory]

I was pretty upset myself when Underwood got injured. If he didn't start he would at least offer a good rotational player and dime package player along with his possible special teams contributions. He would also push manuel for the job.

 

[Cory]

I couldn't find it Porky. Not saying you are lying but the coaching staff said Boerighter was "playing great" early as well.


I'm going on what I saw with my own to eyes both last year and in the scrimmage. I just wasn't impressed. He may be good someday but the main point was he wasn't any better than Roman.

Actually from what I read boerichter was disapointing and I even heard MM say that in a PC once. I know orignally at the start they were happy to have him, but he disapointed a great deal and got cut. Quite a different story than Underwood. Are you seriously judging him off a televised scrimmage though? I can't get over that....

 

[pyledriver80]

I was pretty upset myself when Underwood got injured. If he didn't start he would at least offer a good rotational player and dime package player along with his possible special teams contributions. He would also push manuel for the job.

I agree, he could have gave us another option at least. However Manual is pretty darn bad, worse than Roman bad. Hopefully Culver is the answer and hopefully MM can make the change instead of making the same mistake over andover again like Poppinga

 

[Cory]

I was pretty upset myself when Underwood got injured. If he didn't start he would at least offer a good rotational player and dime package player along with his possible special teams contributions. He would also push manuel for the job.

I agree, he could have gave us another option at least. However Manual is pretty darn bad, worse than Roman bad. Hopefully Culver is the answer and hopefully MM can make the change instead of making the same mistake over andover again like Poppinga

See, I agree about Manuel but not about how you wish to go about things. You have to give these guys a chance. Poppinga has been poor in pass coverage, but good against the run. Why dump him after 3 games? At least give him til the bye week.

 

[porky88]

I couldn't find it Porky. Not saying you are lying but the coaching staff said Boerighter was "playing great" early as well.


I'm going on what I saw with my own two eyes both last year and in the scrimmage. I tend to trust them over what coaches say.I just wasn't impressed. He may be good someday but the main point was he wasn't any better than Roman.

The Media was impressed with him as well. Drew Smith and Jonnie Gray host the show. Havel and Snydney on the radio talked about him as well.

In the end though you can look great in practices all you want but come gameday you have to step it up. Poppinga was getting some late praise as well because of his attitude and healing so you definately can't think this guy would of been the savior of our secondary.

Like stated in this thread. Just another body would be nice.

 

[Cory]

I couldn't find it Porky. Not saying you are lying but the coaching staff said Boerighter was "playing great" early as well.


I'm going on what I saw with my own two eyes both last year and in the scrimmage. I tend to trust them over what coaches say.I just wasn't impressed. He may be good someday but the main point was he wasn't any better than Roman.

The Media was impressed with him as well. Drew Smith and Jonnie Gray host the show. Havel and Snydney on the radio talked about him as well.

In the end though you can look great in practices all you want but come gameday you have to step it up. Poppinga was getting some late praise as well because of his attitude and healing so you definately can't think this guy would of been the savior of our secondary.

Like stated in this thread. Just another body would be nice.

I think it would take Jesus right now to be the savior of our secondary. Holy smokes is it bad. I actually thought this would be the strength of the D coming into the year.

 

[pyledriver80]

I couldn't find it Porky. Not saying you are lying but the coaching staff said Boerighter was "playing great" early as well.


I'm going on what I saw with my own two eyes both last year and in the scrimmage. I tend to trust them over what coaches say.I just wasn't impressed. He may be good someday but the main point was he wasn't any better than Roman.

The Media was impressed with him as well. Drew Smith and Jonnie Gray host the show. Havel and Snydney on the radio talked about him as well.

In the end though you can look great in practices all you want but come gameday you have to step it up. Poppinga was getting some late praise as well because of his attitude and healing so you definately can't think this guy would of been the savior of our secondary.

Like stated in this thread. Just another body would be nice.

I think it would take Jesus right now to be the savior of our secondary. Holy smokes is it bad. I actually thought this would be the strength of the D coming into the year.

As did I, funny how things change.

 

[Cory]

That was one hire that I was ticked off about. Hiring Schott back...I didn't understand it then and I still don't. Sounds like a bit of cronism.

 

[all about da packers]

Well then is it possible to have a sort of quick fix?

The way I see it:
- Get Culver starting. He is young, and will make rookie mistakes that will lead to big plays. Plus he isn't as strong against the run.

- Leave Manuel in there and hope he improves (again there isn't any sign of that yet).

- Sign a FA, wait until he understands the D system and plays, then have him start.

IMO none of these are real viable options for the moment. Culver would make most sense for the future, but if that move was made then would it imply the Packers are getting the young players more PT to get ready for the future?

 

[Cory]

Well then is it possible to have a sort of quick fix?

The way I see it:
- Get Culver starting. He is young, and will make rookie mistakes that will lead to big plays. Plus he isn't as strong against the run.

- Leave Manuel in there and hope he improves (again there isn't any sign of that yet).

- Sign a FA, wait until he understands the D system and plays, then have him start.

IMO none of these are real viable options for the moment. Culver would make most sense for the future, but if that move was made then would it imply the Packers are getting the young players more PT to get ready for the future?

Culver is adequate against the run, but that's not what would be needed of him. He has to speed to play center field and defend the pass. Collins is very good against the run.

 

[warhawk]

When I look into the secondary I find that:

Four of the seven are new. Poppy, Hawk, Woodson, Manuel.

Only Barnett, Harris, and Collins were with this group a year ago.

Manuel and Poppinga did not get to work with this group until virtually the beginning of the season due to injuries. Woodson and Harris(which still ticks me off) opted out of every voluntary practice before the season and even Hawk missed time due to that Ohio St thing.

Now we all know that the coverages are going to change, sometimes several times, right up until the ball is snapped depending on what the offense ulitimately does.

Many big plays allowed have resulted in missed assignments out of the zone coverages, or, when guys didn't make the right read and were out of position sometimes leaving the second back picking up coverage on an island.

Many in here want MORE CHANGES or feel the coaching stinks or whatever.

The coaches are leaving the group INTACT giving them the time to work together and come together as a unit.

I think I'll go along with the coaches.

 

[pyledriver80]

When I look into the secondary I find that:

Four of the seven are new. Poppy, Hawk, Woodson, Manuel.

Only Barnett, Harris, and Collins were with this group a year ago.

Manuel and Poppinga did not get to work with this group until virtually the beginning of the season due to injuries. Woodson and Harris(which still ticks me off) opted out of every voluntary practice before the season and even Hawk missed time due to that Ohio St thing.

Now we all know that the coverages are going to change, sometimes several times, right up until the ball is snapped depending on what the offense ulitimately does.

Many big plays allowed have resulted in missed assignments out of the zone coverages, or, when guys didn't make the right read and were out of position sometimes leaving the second back picking up coverage on an island.

Many in here want MORE CHANGES or feel the coaching stinks or whatever.

The coaches are leaving the group INTACT giving them the time to work together and come together as a unit.

I think I'll go along with the coaches.

I guess thats why we are struggling so mightily while first year coaches like Sean Payton are having success. Payton can make the changes needed to win ball games and MM can't. It was evident when we played the Saints.

I don't know why you guys think it is a must for units to struggle to become good. This isn't how it works at this level. Sometimes guys just don't fit and the sooner you recognize it and make the proper changes the better.


Thats what practice is for. You don't come into a game situation and let guys get toasted and hope they will learn from it and gain experience. If you are not ready to be on the football field than get the hell off and get someone on there that is.

 

[Cory]

When I look into the secondary I find that:

Four of the seven are new. Poppy, Hawk, Woodson, Manuel.

Only Barnett, Harris, and Collins were with this group a year ago.

Manuel and Poppinga did not get to work with this group until virtually the beginning of the season due to injuries. Woodson and Harris(which still ticks me off) opted out of every voluntary practice before the season and even Hawk missed time due to that Ohio St thing.

Now we all know that the coverages are going to change, sometimes several times, right up until the ball is snapped depending on what the offense ulitimately does.

Many big plays allowed have resulted in missed assignments out of the zone coverages, or, when guys didn't make the right read and were out of position sometimes leaving the second back picking up coverage on an island.

Many in here want MORE CHANGES or feel the coaching stinks or whatever.

The coaches are leaving the group INTACT giving them the time to work together and come together as a unit.

I think I'll go along with the coaches.

I guess thats why we are struggling so mightily while first year coaches like Sean Payton are having success. Payton can make the changes needed to win ball games and MM can't. It was evident when we played the Saints.

I don't know why you guys think it is a must for units to struggle to become good. This isn't how it works at this level. Sometimes guys just don't fit and the sooner you recognize it and make the proper changes the better.


Thats what practice is for. You don't come into a game situation and let guys get toasted and hope they will learn from it and gain experience. If you are not ready to be on the football field than get the hell off and get someone on there that is.

I sincerely don't know why you don't feel there is any kind of a learning curve. It isn't just show up day 1 and be great. It doesn't work that way in the NFL for the most part. Payton is doing a great job with the Saints and their biggest difference is getting a QB that knows how to play that position. That and they have one of the best Dlines in football.

 

[pyledriver80]

When I look into the secondary I find that:

Four of the seven are new. Poppy, Hawk, Woodson, Manuel.

Only Barnett, Harris, and Collins were with this group a year ago.

Manuel and Poppinga did not get to work with this group until virtually the beginning of the season due to injuries. Woodson and Harris(which still ticks me off) opted out of every voluntary practice before the season and even Hawk missed time due to that Ohio St thing.

Now we all know that the coverages are going to change, sometimes several times, right up until the ball is snapped depending on what the offense ulitimately does.

Many big plays allowed have resulted in missed assignments out of the zone coverages, or, when guys didn't make the right read and were out of position sometimes leaving the second back picking up coverage on an island.

Many in here want MORE CHANGES or feel the coaching stinks or whatever.

The coaches are leaving the group INTACT giving them the time to work together and come together as a unit.

I think I'll go along with the coaches.

I guess thats why we are struggling so mightily while first year coaches like Sean Payton are having success. Payton can make the changes needed to win ball games and MM can't. It was evident when we played the Saints.

I don't know why you guys think it is a must for units to struggle to become good. This isn't how it works at this level. Sometimes guys just don't fit and the sooner you recognize it and make the proper changes the better.


Thats what practice is for. You don't come into a game situation and let guys get toasted and hope they will learn from it and gain experience. If you are not ready to be on the football field than get the hell off and get someone on there that is.

I sincerely don't know why you don't feel there is any kind of a learning curve. It isn't just show up day 1 and be great. It doesn't work that way in the NFL for the most part. Payton is doing a great job with the Saints and their biggest difference is getting a QB that knows how to play that position. That and they have one of the best Dlines in football.

Cory, there is a learning curve, I never said there was not. However, a NFL game is not where you learn it. Young players a groomed in practice and garbage time of NFL games. Thats how most young guys are brought along. You play 16 games a year, all are valuable. Like it or not, it is a Win or be out of a job league. Thats why its the highest competition level. If you aren't cutting it there will be 2-3 players behind you that will step up. It's not some high school program.

Furthermore, Payton is having success, not because he has a better team, but because as of now he is perhaps more NFL ready than MM. Drew Brees isn't Brett Favre and thier DLine is not all that great. THe Saints were worse than we were last year. Payton took control and made changes after the first half of the Packers game and MM couldn't counter it. Perhaps MM will be able to do so in time, butas of now Payton is getting a 10X better effort out of his guys than MM. On top of that I believe he is the better overall coach by a longshot

 

[Cory]

Cory, there is a learning curve, I never said there was not. However, a NFL game is not where you learn it. Young players a groomed in practice and garbage time of NFL games. Thats how most young guys are brought along. You play 16 games a year, all are valuable. Like it or not, it is a Win or be out of a job league. Thats why its the highest competition level. If you aren't cutting it there will be 2-3 players behind you that will step up. It's not some high school program.

Furthermore, Payton is having success, not because he has a better team, but because as of now he is perhaps more NFL ready than MM. Drew Brees isn't Brett Favre and thier DLine is not all that great. THe Saints were worse than we were last year. Payton took control and made changes after the first half of the Packers game and MM couldn't counter it. Perhaps MM will be able to do so in time, butas of now Payton is getting a 10X better effort out of his guys than MM. On top of that I believe he is the better overall coach by a longshot

Practice of course is the first place you learn what you need to know to compete, but it doesn't mean anything until you get game experience as a unit. Andy Reid was 5-11 his first season. Bill Bellichek(sp?) was 5-11 his first season with the Patriots. Mike Holmgren started out 1-2 in his first three games just as Mike McCarthy has...Jack Del Rio went 5-11 his first season. That's just off the top of my head.

Will Smith and Charles Grant, btw, are about as good a set of bookend DE's as you're going to get in this league and they have a good young DT in Brian Young. Their Dline is VERY good. Drew Brees isn't Brett Favre career wise, but he is 27 and about 100 times better than Aaron Brooks whom btw was helped into being a respectable QB by none other than Mike McCarthy.

I think McCarthy is doing a very good job considering how limited his team is at the moment. Our Pass game is as effective as anyone in the league and that's with having to take two options like the FB and the TE out of the passing game in order to help blitz pickup. Then he has to use primarily his shotgun package in order to keep Favre off his back. All of this with one proven reciever on the roster. Sure Jennings is an up and comer, but hasn't developed the chemistry needed with Favre as of yet. It's no wonder why Green is our second leading reciever right now. Our pass coverage is what is killing us right now. If that were stout, we'd be 2-1 right now. Has nothing to do with "MM not countering Payton" in the game. We frankly just can't stop the pass.

 

[Zombieslayer]

I think McCarthy is doing a very good job considering how limited his team is at the moment. Our Pass game is as effective as anyone in the league and that's with having to take two options like the FB and the TE out of the passing game in order to help blitz pickup. Then he has to use primarily his shotgun package in order to keep Favre off his back. All of this with one proven reciever on the roster. Sure Jennings is an up and comer, but hasn't developed the chemistry needed with Favre as of yet. It's no wonder why Green is our second leading reciever right now. Our pass coverage is what is killing us right now. If that were stout, we'd be 2-1 right now. Has nothing to do with "MM not countering Payton" in the game. We frankly just can't stop the pass.

Agree with every word here.

 

[Lare]

When I look into the secondary I find that:

Many big plays allowed have resulted in missed assignments out of the zone coverages, or, when guys didn't make the right read and were out of position sometimes leaving the second back picking up coverage on an island.

Many in here want MORE CHANGES or feel the coaching stinks or whatever.

The coaches are leaving the group INTACT giving them the time to work together and come together as a unit.

I think I'll go along with the coaches.

I agree. I mean, they're the 31st ranked pass defense in the NFL right now. It's not like they can get any worse, can they?