Mock Offseason

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not familiar with Kline, but I would assume he can't/hasn't played at RT.

Kline hasn't played a single snap at tackle during his NFL career.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The appeal with Billy Turner is that he can play RT as well. He's a bit more versatile, which is really important for us because Bulaga will probably get hurt again.

I'm not familiar with Kline, but I would assume he can't/hasn't played at RT.

Think you are correct on all accounts here. I only brought Kline up because he is someone that MLF is very familiar with. I definitely will take a versatile OL over one who can only play one position. I haven't read a whole lot on Turner, but I thought I read that while he can play Tackle, he wasn't overly successful doing it and played much better as a G.

 

[GleefulGary]

Think you are correct on all accounts here. I only brought Kline up because he is someone that MLF is very familiar with. I definitely will take a versatile OL over one who can only play one position. I haven't read a whole lot on Turner, but I thought I read that while he can play Tackle, he wasn't overly successful doing it and played much better as a G.

He wasn't very good in Miami. This past year when he played RT (spot starting) in Denver, he seemed to do well.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I'm not convinced that to be true. While Packers fans might think that way because Thompson struck gold selecting Bakhtiari in the fourth round most of the best tackles in the league were drafted early.

Oline is so dependent on QB that if you have a great QB (like Rodgers) then late round guys can excel. Look at the Packers current oline. Or the Pats oline.

 

[GleefulGary]

Oline is so dependent on QB that if you have a great QB (like Rodgers) then late round guys can excel. Look at the Packers current oline. Or the Pats oline.

Rodgers actually makes his OL's job incredibly difficult. They have to constantly block for longer than other teams, and often in multiple directions because he extends plays so often.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Two things.

1) I am not just talking about "olinemen." Centers and guards are not the same as tackles.

2) You most certainly do not find a lot of above average tackles who were drafted late. Here are the top tackles in the league at the moment in terms of average annual salary, and their draft round:

1. Trent Brown, OAK- 7th Rd
2. Taylor Lewan, TEN- 1st Rd
3. Nate Solder, NYG- 1st Rd
4. Jake Matthews, ATL- 1st Rd
5. Donovan Smith, TB- 2nd Rd
6. Trent Williams, WAS- 1st Rd
7. Russell Okung, LAC- 1st Rd
8. Terron Armstead, NO- 3rd Rd
9. Ja'Wuan James, DEN- 1st Rd
10. Tyron Smith, DAL- 1st Rd
11. Eric Fisher, KC- 1st Rd
12. Cordy Glenn, CIN- 1st Rd
13. David Bakhtiari, GB- 4th Rd
14. Riley Reiff, MIN- 1st Rd
15. Duane Brown, SEA- 1st Rd
16. Lane Johnson, PHI- 1st Rd
17. Andrew Whitworth, LAR- 2nd Rd
18. Matt Kalil, CAR- 1st Rd
19. Anthony Castonzo, IND- 1st Rd
20. Ricky Wagner, DET- 2nd Rd
21. Donald Penn, OAK- UDFA
22. Charles Leno, CHI- 7th Rd
23. Rob Havenstein, LAR- 2nd Rd
24. Kelvin Beachum, NYJ- 7th Rd
25. Joe Staley, SF- 1st Rd

So of the 25 players that the league has termed most valuable in terms of salary, you have 5 that were originally found outside of the top 3 rounds. 15 were 1st round picks.

Even if you think about good tackles still on rookie deals, you have Mike McGlinchey (Rd 1), Jack Conklin (Rd 1), Cam Robinson (Rd 1), Ryan Ramczyk (Rd 1), Taylor Moton (Rd 2), Laremy Tunsel (Rd 1), Dion Dawkins (Rd 2), Ronnie Stanley (Rd 1)...

So I would say, evidentially, that no you most certainly do not find more good tackles later in the draft than most other positions. If you need one, and there's a good one on the board, you're best served taking said player early.

Appreciate the research. While I agree with many you have listed I don't know that ranking by salary is the best method. That being said, I would love to see a list of dlinemen and edge rushers by round in a similar fashion to what you have done here; not trying to have you "defend" your list by spending more time looking up my argument I just don't have the time right now to do so but, anecdotally, I just think it's more rare to hear of a great pass rusher or coverage corner that came late in the draft (more so the pass rusher).

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Rodgers actually makes his OL's job incredibly difficult. They have to constantly block for longer than other teams, and often in multiple directions because he extends plays so often.

I completely disagree. He is a master of setting up his blocks with his movement and how he manipulates the pass rush.

 

[Dantés]

Appreciate the research. While I agree with many you have listed I don't know that ranking by salary is the best method. That being said, I would love to see a list of dlinemen and edge rushers by round in a similar fashion to what you have done here; not trying to have you "defend" your list by spending more time looking up my argument I just don't have the time right now to do so but, anecdotally, I just think it's more rare to hear of a great pass rusher or coverage corner that came late in the draft (more so the pass rusher).

Shooting more from the hip, edge rushers are going to be similar in this regard to OT's-- it's a premium position. The trend at iDL and CB won't be quite so pronounced, but still present.

My bottom line point is that if you're banking on finding good OT play late in the draft with any kind of consistency, you're going to be disappointed.

 

[Dantés]

I completely disagree. He is a master of setting up his blocks with his movement and how he manipulates the pass rush.

It's hard to get around the fact that Rodgers has one of the longest time to throw rates in the NFL. He moves well in the pocket and outside of it, but the bottom line is still that he asks his line to hold blocks longer than almost anyone else.

 

[brandon2348]

I've been against getting a TE at 12 but this scenario would set the Packers offense off. Talk about an all out infusion of speed too the middle of the offense. A TE that can stretch the seam at 4.50 along with a slot who runs 4.31.

MVS/Moore/Allison would be fine added to this.

This would be absolutely Amazing.

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2019/03/15/doug-farrars-mock-draft-3-0-post-free-agency-edition/

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[Pokerbrat2000]

How come I knew Paris Campbell was going to the Packers in that Mock?

Come clean Brandon, you are really Paris's sister aren't you?

 

[sschind]

Shooting more from the hip, edge rushers are going to be similar in this regard to OT's-- it's a premium position. The trend at iDL and CB won't be quite so pronounced, but still present.

My bottom line point is that if you're banking on finding good OT play late in the draft with any kind of consistency, you're going to be disappointed.

Its difficult to argue with people on this point because at every position you have late round guys that turn out to be studs. On the other hand for every fourth round gem like Bakhtiari there are probably a dozen who don't make it past their 2nd season much less to their second contract.

 

[Dantés]

Its difficult to argue with people on this point because at every position you have late round guys that turn out to be studs. On the other hand for every fourth round gem like Bakhtiari there are probably a dozen who don't make it past their 2nd season much less to their second contract.

It isn't perfect, but salaries is probably the best way to do it. You take the guys who the league has told us with their wallets that they value the most and find out where they came from. In the case of offensive tackles, 80% of the top 25 came from day one or day two.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Anyone keeping an eye on any of the running back prospects? I'm not saying we need one early, but I think we need to hedge our bests since a good running back core is essential to LeFleur's system. Guys like Montgomery, Singletary, Henderson, Gaskin, or Snell could add another body to the committee which I think would be rather useful.

 

[AmishMafia]

Anyone keeping an eye on any of the running back prospects? I'm not saying we need one early, but I think we need to hedge our bests since a good running back core is essential to LeFleur's system. Guys like Montgomery, Singletary, Henderson, Gaskin, or Snell could add another body to the committee which I think would be rather useful.

Miles Sanders or Hill in the 3rd or maybe Trayveon Williams in the 4th are the guys I am pulling for. I would be happy with Josh Jacobs at 30 as well. All of those, except Williams, would be great value and plausible.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Anyone keeping an eye on any of the running back prospects? I'm not saying we need one early, but I think we need to hedge our bests since a good running back core is essential to LeFleur's system. Guys like Montgomery, Singletary, Henderson, Gaskin, or Snell could add another body to the committee which I think would be rather useful.

A guy I really like at RB is LJ Scott who played at Michigan State. He got injured last season and could have come back on a redshirt, but declared. I think he is going to be under the radar and might be available in the 5th/6th. He has great lower body strength, but could drop a few pounds to lighten the load a bit. The title of the video is a bit "hyped" but hey, who knows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=44&v=IFM28abK-ak

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Shooting more from the hip, edge rushers are going to be similar in this regard to OT's-- it's a premium position. The trend at iDL and CB won't be quite so pronounced, but still present.

My bottom line point is that if you're banking on finding good OT play late in the draft with any kind of consistency, you're going to be disappointed.

The one factor that I think some overlook is how much a great QB helps the oline while that assistance doesn't exist for pass rushers. A great QB (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc.) can help their oline look a lot better than they really are.

 

[Dantés]

The one factor that I think some overlook is how much a great QB helps the oline while that assistance doesn't exist for pass rushers. A great QB (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc.) can help their oline look a lot better than they really are.

Rodgers does not belong in that group. He stresses his OL more than normal. He doesn't make them look better a la Brady and Manning.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Rodgers does not belong in that group. He stresses his OL more than normal. He doesn't make them look better a la Brady and Manning.

Again, I, and most analysts that I read/listen to, disagree on this. Yes, he holds the ball, but he's also the best in the NFL at setting up blocks for his oline. His ability to help the olinemen is one of the reasons that the Green Bay oline is consistently one of the best in the NFL.

 

[Dantés]

Again, I, and most analysts that I read/listen to, disagree on this. Yes, he holds the ball, but he's also the best in the NFL at setting up blocks for his oline. His ability to help the olinemen is one of the reasons that the Green Bay oline is consistently one of the best in the NFL.

I know that he brings an escapability factor and his pocket presence is excellent, but none of that changes that his OL has to hold blocks longer than most, which makes their jobs harder.

Can you share said analysis?

 

[gbgary]

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1730140/nfl-mock-draft-4-0-free-agent-frenzy-leads-to-big-changes

 

[AmishMafia]

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1730140/nfl-mock-draft-4-0-free-agent-frenzy-leads-to-big-changes

That one is really out there.

 

[morango]

That one is really out there.

Amish it’s true that I have a hard time telling when you’re being sarcastic, but outside of the packers pick of DK Metcalf at #12, this draft seems really realistic to me. Like, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a high percentage of those players going off the board very near those slots.

 

[AmishMafia]

Amish it’s true that I have a hard time telling when you’re being sarcastic, but outside of the packers pick of DK Metcalf at #12, this draft seems really realistic to me. Like, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a high percentage of those players going off the board very near those slots.

On 2nd glance, it's not too bad. I had stopped at #12, most of the rest is plausible. I think Sweat is now round 2 with the heart condition. Gary turned off more than a few with his personality. I think he goes 20ish. And Metcalf goes at the end of the first. He is only fast. He should have had much more production in college but for nagging injuries. Suspect he will bust fairly quickly.

Collier at 30? Thought he was 4th round material.

We shall ser.

 

[gbgary]

here's joel klatt's mock: joel klatt 1.0 (wait for it)