MM and AR Rift

[swhitset]

Well I can't fix a transmission either, but I know when one is broken. Kind of like how people were calling for Capers to be fired years ago when management was sitting on their hands, until it became painfully obvious. And they obviously think something is wrong with the offense, if Philbin was brought in.

I actually like your analogy.... because you know what? I have never torn down and rebuilt a transmission.... BUT I have done enough DIY stuff including some auto mechanic work that I'm fairly confident that I could get it figured out given some time and the right tools and resources. If this were not the case, while I might suspect that mine was broken, I wouldn't be yelling at my mechanic telling him how to fix it.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

What exactly do you hope to accomplish by these posts? There are a few in her that agree with you, others that don't. I happen to be one that doesn't. Nothing you have sad is likely to sway me. If Rodgers were to leave, and another decent QB came in, and after giving him time to retool and build his team around that situation McCarthy was unable to be successful... then you would have a point. At this point all you have is unsubstantiated speculation trying to mask itself as fact.

Something is off with our organization. There seem to be others in which the GM, HC, and team are all on the same page, but our situation seems fragmented. The QB subtly throws the HC under the bus, the HC subtly throws the GM under the bus, the organization goes into damage control and "promotes" the GM and forces the DC out and a new OC in. It just seems like we are trying to make several odd pieces fit together. A change is necessary. I would keep the QB over McCarthy 10 out of 10 times, but it's up to the GM to decide whose side he is on, because we are going nowhere until this disfunction is gone. I just believe that Rodgers is the generational talent, and McCarthy is JAC, so I'd make sure that he is happy with the way everything is going. He clearly isn't.

 

[McKnowledge]

Might be time to move on from Mike McCarthy. Keep Mike Pettine in the same role, and hire a new Offensive Minded Head Coach. Here are some candidates:

Aaron Kromer (Los Angeles Rams)

Eric Bieniemy (Kansas City Chiefs)

Joe Philbin (Green Bay Packers)

Bill Lazor (Cincinnati Bengals)

Jim Bob ****** (Detroit Lions)

Todd Monken (New Orleans Saints)

 

[brandon2348]

I'm not worried at all about any of this or some rift. Rodgers has been playing with a bad wheel which changes everything and the offense has gotten off to slow starts before only to get red hot later.

Were gonna be just fine. Talent is there. Get a couple W's heading into the bye and give Rodgers a chance to heal the knee up more with some of the younger talent to develop and get more in sync.

 

[Werts]

Lol you beat me to it!!! I love Aaron Rodgers presser! He knows just like any REAL football person knows...and that’s the offensive scheme and game plan sucked! You guys get upset with me because I criticize MM ALL the time because of his playcalling and scheme! But I’m not looking at the game just as a fan! As a football person and coach I analyze the game from that point of view. He said exactly what I said before his presser...and that is the Packers should’ve put 40 plus points up on Buffalo! Against someone like the Patriots or Rams the Packers probably lose this game because they are kick FGs and stalling out on drives wayyy to often. Packers need younger more innovative guys calling the offense instead of MM living off past glory of 6-7 yrs ago calling the same plays.

I agree. Regardless of what Mike McCarthy says about revamping the playbook, the offense is old and stale. It isn't appreciably different than the stuff they were running 10 years ago. Offenses and defenses continually evolve - it is the nature of the game. Mike McCarthy's offensive scheme is not evolving.

 

[Mondio]

Having a QB not play preseason and then hurt himself in the 1st quarter of the 1st game and not practice for 3 weeks surely has nothing to do with it. rotating offensive lineman doesn't either. Dropped passes and turnovers sure don't. Then missing Cobb and now probably Gmo and Adams banged up and not practicing wouldn't affect things either. These guys don't need to practice together or play together. They would all be great if MM just ran an "innovative" offense LOL

 

[swhitset]

laughing my *** off at the fact that the Pack won their last game 22-0 and this is the nonsense we are talking about.

 

[PackerFanLV]

Lol you beat me to it!!! I love Aaron Rodgers presser! He knows just like any REAL football person knows...and that’s the offensive scheme and game plan sucked! You guys get upset with me because I criticize MM ALL the time because of his playcalling and scheme! But I’m not looking at the game just as a fan! As a football person and coach I analyze the game from that point of view. He said exactly what I said before his presser...and that is the Packers should’ve put 40 plus points up on Buffalo! Against someone like the Patriots or Rams the Packers probably lose this game because they are kick FGs and stalling out on drives wayyy to often. Packers need younger more innovative guys calling the offense instead of MM living off past glory of 6-7 yrs ago calling the same plays.

I agree with you 100 percent

 

[PackerFanLV]

I dont have the stats but can someone tell me when was the last game we scored on the first drive of a game?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Tennessee and Arizona had much better winning percentages with Blaine Gabbert. Gabbert is not better than Hundley. Indianapolis also had a winning record with a backup a few years ago, and were roughly as successful as GB last year with a QB who flew into town a week before the season began.

The Cardinals went 2-3 with Gabbert as their starter last season and while the Titans won both games with him this season it's too small of a sample size. In addition you have to realize that he was a first round pick and Tennessee still has its starting quarterback on a rookie deal which makes it significantly easier to put a competitive team around him. Once again, the Colts had a much more talented backup QB than Hundley in Hasselbeck while going 5-3 with him playing eight games in 2015.

MM has had a terrible record the past few years without Rodgers. Anything said to the contrary is just an excuSe. Losing one player is no excuse for your team becoming crap. Rodgers certainly didn't need an excuse when he won games despite injuries to other players.

The Packers went 3-7 with Hundley playing the majority of snaps. While that is definitely not good enough the lack of talent with him was the main reason for it. You have to understand that the Packers roster wasn't built in a way to succeed without Rodgers with his massive cap hit being one of the reasons for it.

Well, apparently I DO get it. This is the NFL, supposedly the best coaches in the world. If you tell me he's one of the best in the business then that means he's one of the, what, top-7 offensive play callers on Earth? That qualifies as genius in my book. Don't start hedging now...

McCarthy is definitely one of the top 7 offensive
minds in the league.

I would keep the QB over McCarthy 10 out of 10 times, but it's up to the GM to decide whose side he is on, because we are going nowhere until this disfunction is gone.

Of course the Packers would have to hold on to Rodgers in case of having to decide for either one of them. They couldn't go in any other direction with the way his new deal is structured.

Might be time to move on from Mike McCarthy. Keep Mike Pettine in the same role, and hire a new Offensive Minded Head Coach. Here are some candidates:

Aaron Kromer (Los Angeles Rams)

Eric Bieniemy (Kansas City Chiefs)

Joe Philbin (Green Bay Packers)

Bill Lazor (Cincinnati Bengals)

Jim Bob ****** (Detroit Lions)

Todd Monken (New Orleans Saints)

Kromer (Bears offensive coordinator from 2013-14), Lazor (Dolphins OC 2014-15, Bengals last year), ****** (Lions OC since 2015) and Monken (way too small sample size of four games) haven't had anywhere close to the success McCarthy has enjoyed over the past 12+ seasons. There's no reason to believe any of them would be an upgrade.

I dont have the stats but can someone tell me when was the last game we scored on the first drive of a game?

The Packers haven't scored on their last seven opening drives with a touchdown at Cleveland last season being the last one ending up with points.

 

[gopkrs]

I dont have the stats but can someone tell me when was the last game we scored on the first drive of a game?

Well, I am going to beat the dead horse a little again. If we win the toss; MM chooses to kick off. I don't like it as I think if all things are equal; we should put our best foot forward. That said, if you have a choice...make a choice. Based on who you are playing. Maybe wind conditions etc. I don't think he should automatically choose to kick off. And I really don't like to start off in a hole.

 

[Poppa San]

Well, I am going to beat the dead horse a little again. If we win the toss; MM chooses to kick off. I don't like it as I think if all things are equal; we should put our best foot forward. That said, if you have a choice...make a choice. Based on who you are playing. Maybe wind conditions etc. I don't think he should automatically choose to kick off. And I really don't like to start off in a hole.

He doesn't choose to kick off and the first half kickoff is not related to the 2nd half. The three options on the coin toss are receive the ball, pick direction, or make the decision in the 2nd half. Deferring means he chooses to make his choice in the 2nd half. The other team then chooses to receive. If he chose to kick for the first half, he would most likely have to kick off in the 2nd as the other team would have 1st choice in the 2nd half.


ETA: Technically there are 2 choices on the coin toss, heads or tails. After winning the toss or the other team losing it, you get to the three choices. You get two of three. First is to defer or not. Then you get to the receive / direction option.

 

[gopkrs]

Technically you are right about the definition of defer. But I don't believe the other team has a choice. I guess the other team has to take the ball or not open either half with it. So though you are probably right...nobody would likely do that. And I think the choice still remains for MM. And I just don't agree with deferring no matter what.

 

[McKnowledge]

Kromer (Bears offensive coordinator from 2013-14), Lazor (Dolphins OC 2014-15, Bengals last year), ****** (Lions OC since 2015) and Monken (way too small sample size of four games) haven't had anywhere close to the success McCarthy has enjoyed over the past 12+ seasons. There's no reason to believe any of them would be an upgrade.

There is also no reason to believe these coordinators would not be an upgrade. Everyone deserves an opportunity if qualified. One Super Bowl win along with only one appearance in 12+ years is not good enough considering expectations. Might be time for a new perspective. A new voice. New leadership along the sidelines.

 

[rmontro]

Having a QB not play preseason and then hurt himself in the 1st quarter of the 1st game and not practice for 3 weeks surely has nothing to do with it. rotating offensive lineman doesn't either. Dropped passes and turnovers sure don't. Then missing Cobb and now probably Gmo and Adams banged up and not practicing wouldn't affect things either.

And that's not even talking about the defense. I guess the Packer injury bug has officially struck this year.

laughing my *** off at the fact that the Pack won their last game 22-0 and this is the nonsense we are talking about.

Rodgers thought there was reason to complain.

I dont have the stats but can someone tell me when was the last game we scored on the first drive of a game?

Remember when you could pretty much bet your house that the Packers would score on the first drive of the game? Doesn't seem all that long ago, or maybe it does.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

McCarthy is definitely one of the top 7 offensive
minds in the league.



Of course the Packers would have to hold on to Rodgers in case of having to decide for either one of them. They couldn't go in any other direction with the way his new deal is structured.



Kromer (Bears offensive coordinator from 2013-14), Lazor (Dolphins OC 2014-15, Bengals last year), ****** (Lions OC since 2015) and Monken (way too small sample size of four games) haven't had anywhere close to the success McCarthy has enjoyed over the past 12+ seasons. There's no reason to believe any of them would be an upgrade.

That says more about the league I think...

I don't think the deal should matter at all. For any team with a great QB who can still play at a high level for years, you pick the QB over the coach. Deal or not, best QB in NFL history is more valuable to any team than the coach.

You pointed out some OCs yet none of those guys have had a QB anywhere near the caliber of Rodgers. I mean, that's kind of what makes this debate about MM's actual ability so much fun; how much credit to coach and how much credit to QB? No coaching change is a guaranteed upgrade (unless the Packers trade a first round pick for Belichick, that would be totally worth it) but having a great QB does make it a little easier to make the change.

 

[PackerFanLV]

And that's not even talking about the defense. I guess the Packer injury bug has officially struck this year.


Rodgers thought there was reason to complain.


Remember when you could pretty much bet your house that the Packers would score on the first drive of the game? Doesn't seem all that long ago, or maybe it does.

Yea man it was almost a for sure touchdown on our first drive of the game. We dont scare teams like we used to offensively. Seeing drew brees and shawn payton continue to light teams up kinda makes me wonder about MM a lot.

 

[rmontro]

Yea man it was almost a for sure touchdown on our first drive of the game. We dont scare teams like we used to offensively. Seeing drew brees and shawn payton continue to light teams up kinda makes me wonder about MM a lot.

All those years of trying to fix our defense by making that the priority in the draft hasn't helped the offense either. We could have a few more weapons. Next year will probably be more of the same, with us needing a safety and pass rusher. It's like we're on a never ending treadmill going nowhere.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And I just don't agree with deferring no matter what.

Yeah, why consider the facts when you believe for some random reason that it's a bad idea.

There is also no reason to believe these coordinators would not be an upgrade. Everyone deserves an opportunity if qualified. One Super Bowl win along with only one appearance in 12+ years is not good enough considering expectations.

I agree that winning only a single Super Bowl while having Favre and Rodgers as starting quarterbacks isn't good enough but I mostly attribute that to a lack of overall talent on the roster. It's possible one of the coaches you mentioned present an upgrade over McCarthy but with him being one of the best offensive minds in the game I wouldn't bet on it.

You pointed out some OCs yet none of those guys have had a QB anywhere near the caliber of Rodgers. I mean, that's kind of what makes this debate about MM's actual ability so much fun; how much credit to coach and how much credit to QB?

It's possible that none of these offensive coordinators are capable of developing a quarterback as well as McCarthy though resulting in them not having an elite QB like Rodgers. There's no way to figure it out as long as he's the Packers head coach though.

Yea man it was almost a for sure touchdown on our first drive of the game. We dont scare teams like we used to offensively. Seeing drew brees and shawn payton continue to light teams up kinda makes me wonder about MM a lot.

The current drought on opening drives ties the longest one since Rodgers became the starter. The Packers went without scoring a point on their opening drives for seven games as well during the 2010 season. Maybe a good omen

 

[longtimefan]

Mm adjusted the offense to accommodate the knee injury..

Someone here mentioned that already.

I didn't see this posted yet..

https://amp.packersnews.com/amp/1538586002

McCarthy said he understood why Rodgers was so frustrated after the 22-0 victory over the Buffalo Bills that he called the offensive performance “terrible” and suggested the game plan was no good. But he said it’s his job to look at the big picture and that picture needs to feature a healthy Rodgers supported by a healthy run game and a healthy offensive line.

McCarthy has had to come up with game plans that fit what Rodgers can do physically. Against Minnesota and Washington, Rodgers had to take all the snaps in shotgun or pistol.

As a result, the running game wasn’t as effective because without the quarterback ever being under center, the defense has a pretty good idea which direction the run is going. In addition, some of the effective play-action schemes he has in the offense, like what the Los Angeles Rams, Atlanta Falcons and San Francisco 49ers are using, were out the window.

Against Minnesota, McCarthy said on the first deep ball he called, Rodgers got sacked. The second one he called also resulted in a sack. He said he couldn’t keep letting Rodgers get hit, so he backed off on those lower-percentage “shot” plays

Please read this article..

I posted more than I normally would to show the reasons why things look like they do.

MM goes into more detail and reasons why this new offense they tweaked, looks vanilla.

Hoping this week gets the offense to use more wrinkles.

But this does give SOME answers to some questions people have

 

[Mondio]

And those reasons should be fairly obvious. But since when has hobbled offensive line, coupled with a Gimpy Quarteback with one good leg plus other setbacks ever made a difference to a fan asssessing what he or she sees?

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

A change is necessary. I would keep the QB over McCarthy 10 out of 10 times

For the record, Rodgers has said repeatedly he has MM's back.

You people and the fake news ESPN media need to quit calling this a him or me situation when it isn't.

 

[gopkrs]

Yeah, why consider the facts when you believe for some random reason that it's a bad idea.

I really don't know how you can say that. I am saying that the decision should take into consideration the strengths and weaknesses of your team as well as the opponent. Not good to get off to a bad start! Good to start off well. And you talk about facts when the other side of the coin is not displayed. There are so many variables involved in decision making and you think you can just look at a past fact sheet and you know the answer. Things change/evolve. Are you saying The Pack has scored more often with the 1st series of the 2nd half than with the start of the game? And how can you know about the calming effect having the ball 1st has on the opponent's offense? Don't laugh.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I really don't know how you can say that. I am saying that the decision should take into consideration the strengths and weaknesses of your team as well as the opponent. Not good to get off to a bad start! Good to start off well. And you talk about facts when the other side of the coin is not displayed. There are so many variables involved in decision making and you think you can just look at a past fact sheet and you know the answer. Things change/evolve. Are you saying The Pack has scored more often with the 1st series of the 2nd half than with the start of the game? And how can you know about the calming effect having the ball 1st has on the opponent's offense? Don't laugh.

Once again, I have posted that the Packers have a better winning record when they win the coin toss but choose to receive the ball in the second half than in other games.

That's good enough for me not to be upset about it.

 

[gopkrs]

They have a winning record regardless. I don't like that he does not mix it up. But I respect your opinion.