Mike Pettine's Defence

[Dantés]

I find it difficult to assess Pettine right now because the biggest problem on defense is not schematic, and it's not start/sit decisions-- it's the actual play of the guys who ought to be the Packers' best performers.

Alexander is having a good year, and honestly that's about it. Clark was hurt and hasn't gotten going yet. Z. Smith had a great game against Atlanta, but has been quiet otherwise. P. Smith has been invisible. The safeties have been up and down. Gary had some good moments early and then hurt his ankle.

So you can't say that Pettine doesn't have any talent to work with, because he does. But that talent isn't performing the way that it should.

It’s possible that he’s to blame for that, but is also possible that he’s not. So judging him from the outside is next to impossible.

And if it is his fault that guys like the Smiths, Clark, our safeties, etc. aren’t playing their best ball right now, then what was going on last year when those guys were playing well? Did he forget how to get the best out of those guys? That doesn't really hold water for me.

So I totally accept the possibility that Pettine isn't the best answer and they need to move on in the offseason. But I view it as that-- a possibility. It's also possible that the real issue right now lies elsewhere.

But I will say one thing— fans who think that he just doesn’t understand scheme and he’s a dope are way off base. Pettine has done this professionally for a long time and he’s had a lot of success at it too. It never ceases to amaze me how fans will so casually decide that guys like this are clueless. I realize NFL fans are emotional, but come on...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

https://www.packersnews.com/videos/...butler-9-21-20-difference-blitzes/3721528001/

Not sure how many of you watch the Weekly "X's and O's" with Tom and LeRoy. This weeks was interesting in that they broke down the Bucs Blitz and the Packers Blitz on 2 specific plays. While I think they needed to talk more "in general" and state that one can't conclude a lot from just watching a single play, I came away with a few observations and am interested in hearing what others think.

First, the Bucs Blitz. The speed of their linebackers on this particular play did us in. Jamaal Williams totally took the wrong angle to try and block the first guy and even if he blocks him the second LB uses his speed to get by Bahk and gets the sack. Further, during the play, none of the Packer receivers had sufficiently worked themselves open.

Second, Packers Blitz. Our linebackers seem to rely more on power and finesse (stunts), but on this particular play, neither worked. If Gary was running a stunt to the inside, he never got home and while this play might work if coverage is solid, Brady found Gronk pretty quick. I also enjoy listening to LeRoy talk about what Amos and Savage should have done on the play, as well as them point out that 2 other receivers were open. I always enjoy listening to LeRoy and have wondered why he isn't coaching.

Again, I realize that this was just 2 plays during an entire game. But much like the outcome of the game, we saw an offense that not only couldn't handle the blitz, but couldn't get their receivers open quick enough, even if Aaron had a bit more time. Whereas the Bucs not only picked up our blitz, their receivers did a good job of getting themselves open.

 

[Dantés]

Per PFF, the Packers defense created 304 total pressures last year, and this year they're on pace for 169. The Smith's only have 20 between them so far this year.

In the first five games last year, they had 128, with five players in the double digits.

Through five games this year, they have 53, with one player in the double digits.

This basically illustrates the problem. Players who were winning last year are not winning this year.

 

[Dantés]

In case anyone was wondering why Pettine is a dope, his game plan was atrocious yesterday. A good DC would try to pressure an old, immobile QB like Brady, but instead opted to rush only three or four most of the game and drop eight in coverage. Remember the 3rd and goal play from the eight yard line? You're pretty much asking Brady to throw a TD pass on you. Just pathetic.

FYI-- Pettine called 13 blitzes on Sunday, which is the most he's called in any game this season. The coverage didn't hold up.

 

[Mavster]

30th in DVOA so far through 2020.

It's looking more and more like 2019 was an outlier.

 

[PackerDNA]

FYI-- Pettine called 13 blitzes on Sunday, which is the most he's called in any game this season. The coverage didn't hold up.

Maybe it was more a case of the blitzes weren't getting there.

 

[Dantés]

Maybe it was more a case of the blitzes weren't getting there.

Brady got the ball out way too fast.

For instance, on the Gronkowski touchdown, Pettine sent six guys and Brady had the ball in the air before the stunt could even happen.

Coverage and pressure has to be symbiotic.

 

[PackerDNA]

Brady got the ball out way too fast.

For instance, on the Gronkowski touchdown, Pettine sent six guys and Brady had the ball in the air before the stunt could even happen.

Coverage and pressure has to be symbiotic.

I agree with your points, it just seems to me like too many times are blitzers are just running into blockers and flailing around.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

30th in DVOA so far through 2020.

It's looking more and more like 2019 was an outlier.

Sounds like 2020 is a great year for offenses, so who knows how it really compares to 2019 or how it will shake out by the end. All I know is we need help on the DL and more skill and speed at ILB. We also can't hold on to Pettine for as long as they held on to Capers if they think he isn't the guy. Not sure who said it in another post, but I agree, just because you make a change with soemthing, it doesn't automatically translate into being "better".

 

[gopkrs]

Per PFF, the Packers defense created 304 total pressures last year, and this year they're on pace for 169. The Smith's only have 20 between them so far this year.

In the first five games last year, they had 128, with five players in the double digits.

Through five games this year, they have 53, with one player in the double digits.

This basically illustrates the problem. Players who were winning last year are not winning this year.

I don't know about tampa but Preston Smith has not been rushing a lot. He is backing off into coverage with an eye on flat area. Doubt that is the best way to use one of our best rushers.

 

[Dantés]

I don't know about tampa but Preston Smith has not been rushing a lot. He is backing off into coverage with an eye on flat area. Doubt that is the best way to use one of our best rushers.

He has replaced Fackrell in that way, yes. But he’s still rushing far more than dropping, and he isn’t producing.

 

[Dantés]

Is it really that hard to find a good defensive coach? Must be.

It is really hard to find a defensive coach, or any coach, who consistently rises above the level of the talent that they're given to work with. And most guys who can do that, offense or defense, don't stay coordinators for a really long time.

Even just look at Mike Zimmer. It seems a number of Packer fans would like him at DC if he were to get fired in Minnesota. And with good reason! But consider what we've seen from him for a minute.

When his defense was really, really good in Minnesota, these were his starters.

Danielle Hunter
Sheldon Richardson
Linval Joseph
Everson Griffen

Eric Kendricks
Anthony Barr

Trae Waynes
Xavier Rhodes
Mackensie Alexander
Harrison Smith
Anthony Harris

That's an 11 man defense with like 9 pro bowlers on it.

This year, his talent has been largely decimated. 7 of those players are gone. And his unit stinks.

The current Packers' defense is more talented that what Minnesota has to work with in 2020. And they're not playing like it. And maybe that's on Pettine, and maybe it isn't. But if they were to hire Zimmer in the future, they shouldn't expect an elite defense until they provide him with the elite personnel that he was working with during the high points with the Vikings.

 

[Mavster]

It's hardly a revelation that coaches with great players are able to put together great units.

The fact is, Pettine is doing horribly with a lot more than most teams.

 

[Dantés]

It's hardly a revelation that coaches with great players are able to put together great units.

The fact is, Pettine is doing horribly with a lot more than most teams.

You think the Packers have a lot more talent on defense than most teams? I'm not sure I agree with that.

Based on past history of the players on the roster, I'd say he has 5 guys who we should reasonably expect to be better than average (Clark, Smith, Smith, Alexander, and Amos) and three who should be playing at a pro bowl level (Clark, Z. Smith, and Alexander).

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Just pointing out that draft position doesn't really matter on the field. Ppl that point out the number of first round defenders the Packers have need to understand that the NFL doesn't give high round players any benefits during games.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just pointing out that draft position doesn't really matter on the field. Ppl that point out the number of first round defenders the Packers have need to understand that the NFL doesn't give high round players any benefits during games.

You are correct, draft position doesn't guarantee anything on the field, but I think you would have to agree that there quite often is some correlation between where a player is picked in the draft and how well he does in the NFL?

 

[Dantés]

Just pointing out that draft position doesn't really matter on the field. Ppl that point out the number of first round defenders the Packers have need to understand that the NFL doesn't give high round players any benefits during games.

That's right, people could point to other high picks on defense (King, Savage, Gary, etc.) that are to this point mediocre NFL players and say they ought to be better. And maybe they should be better and their lack of consistent play is on the coaching staff. Or maybe this is who they would be anywhere, and it's really on the FO. Without them moving on and playing elsewhere, or Pettine moving on and them having a new coaching staff to work with, we can't really know.

 

[gopkrs]

I just hate 3 man rushes and playing off receivers when it is 3rd and short. I actually don't have to see anything else to know that I don't want that coordinator. His use of Preston Smith is just bizarre.

 

[Mondio]

That's right, people could point to other high picks on defense (King, Savage, Gary, etc.) that are to this point mediocre NFL players and say they ought to be better. And maybe they should be better and their lack of consistent play is on the coaching staff. Or maybe this is who they would be anywhere, and it's really on the FO. Without them moving on and playing elsewhere, or Pettine moving on and them having a new coaching staff to work with, we can't really know.

I think King has been fine, just too injured and his play suffers from lack of continuity, lost practice, or lack of physicality to play like he can. When he's healthy for a few games in a row, he's definitely good enough. Savage is surprising me, I had him pegged for much more than he's done this far. Looks like he's regressed some. thinking too much? confused? just won't be as good as I thought? who knows.

 

[Dantés]

I just hate 3 man rushes and playing off receivers when it is 3rd and short. I actually don't have to see anything else to know that I don't want that coordinator. His use of Preston Smith is just bizarre.

You hit disagree on the post about him rushing more than dropping. Are you saying he's spending more snaps in coverage than rushing the QB?

 

[Dantés]

I think King has been fine, just too injured and his play suffers from lack of continuity, lost practice, or lack of physicality to play like he can. When he's healthy for a few games in a row, he's definitely good enough. Savage is surprising me, I had him pegged for much more than he's done this far. Looks like he's regressed some. thinking too much? confused? just won't be as good as I thought? who knows.

Both of those players are uneven to the point of being average, in my opinion. They're not bad, but they're also not guys I would say are markedly above mediocrity.

 

[gopkrs]

You hit disagree on the post about him rushing more than dropping. Are you saying he's spending more snaps in coverage than rushing the QB?

That is what it looks like to me though I did not watch him much against tampa

 

[PackerDNA]

Saw a couple of things in the last week about Preston Smith .One said last year he dropped into coverage 19.7%, so far this year 18.6%. Another said through four games last year he had dropped back 51 times, and through four games this season also 51 times. No appreciable difference. Smith is not getting the job done rushing the passer for whatever reason, but I don't think overusing him dropping into coverage is the culprit.

 

[Dantés]

That is what it looks like to me though I did not watch him much against tampa

I don't know of any stats to confirm, but I would be absolutely shocked.

By the way, I've seen numerous people balk at Pettine using three many rushes in that game. He sent 5+ rushers a season high 13 times on Sunday. A willingness to send extra guys was not the problem. And really, the defense in general was not the main problem.

 

[Dantés]

Having an OLB drop into the flat is not unusual in this defense. It's just that Fackrell did it last year and he's now gone.