Mike McCarthy's Future

[GreenBaySlacker]

McCarthy is going to be a hall of fame coach some day. He is young. Another ten years at least... and another Superbowl.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

OK Mr genius, please do tell us how many games Bellicheck would've won if he'd have had to roll with Garropolo and Brissett all season long last year.

Better yet please tell me how many games the new fan favorite here Sean Payton would win if Brees went down. How many games would Jim Caldwell win without Stafford, Pete Carroll without Russell Wilson, Del Rio without Derek Carr or Dan Quinn without Matt Ryan.

This silly reasoning on MM's record without Rodgers has no grounds.

Only coach I could think of at the moment who might win (longshot) with his backup is Andy Reid in KC due to having Kelce, Hunt and Hill.

I just provided examples of several teams who were nowhere near as impacted by the loss of their QB. Maybe you'd care to actually look at facts instead of diving into hypotheticals?

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

Only the truest of homers could excuse a coach for only winning 1/4 of their games for such a reason. What is the point of even having a backup QB if you are incapable of winning without your starter? The job of a coach is to win games, not have one player win games for him.

Was the offense in Indy not built around Luck? The one in Miami built around Tannehil? The one in NE built around Brady? Surely you don't think those first two teams have much more talent than we do. Why have these coaches been so much better without these guys? Homer talk defending a loser coach.

Well, as Meatloaf sang, 2 out of three ain’t bad. Indy however is 2-5 with their wins over winless Cleveland and 0-7 San Fran.

I hope with two weeks before the next game the new Brett can improve. Lots to improve on. He did not connect on any of his longer throws and as several have pointed out, seemed to just loft them. However, with two weeks to develop a game plan around his skill set and Jones ability, maybe all is not lost yet. There are few coaches better than McCarthy.
BB is the only one I would say for sure right now. There are a couple of others I like but none of them are available so we wouldn’t be getting them if we fired MM. And sure as flies on you know what MM would be unemployed for exactly as lo

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Well, as Meatloaf sang, 2 out of three ain’t bad. Indy however is 2-5 with their wins over winless Cleveland and 0-7 San Fran.

I hope with two weeks before the next game the new Brett can improve. Lots to improve on. He did not connect on any of his longer throws and as several have pointed out, seemed to just loft them. However, with two weeks to develop a game plan around his skill set and Jones ability, maybe all is not lost yet. There are few coaches better than McCarthy.
BB is the only one I would say for sure right now. There are a couple of others I like but none of them are available so we wouldn’t be getting them if we fired MM. And sure as flies on you know what MM would be unemployed for exactly as lo

Indy went 6-3 without Luck in 2015. How was McCarthy's previous stint without Rodgers?

 

[Sanguine camper]

People keep bringing up the record without Rodgers like it means something. You can't make a judgement about the coach when the team is built around someone like Rodgers and then when Rodgers goes down say... "see the coach sucks". Now I will say that not having at least a decent backup on the team to account for that eventuality is short sighted and the coach does need to take some blame for that.

The games when AR is out is a perfect example of how a coach can adjust his team to the skills of their players. The good coaches find a way to fit the game towards the skills of their players while the stubborn ones stick to their formula even when they dont have the personnel to run it. AR would make any coach look good. Its the games when AR is out that shine the light on MM's ability.

 

[rodell330]

McCarthy is going to be a hall of fame coach some day. He is young. Another ten years at least... and another Superbowl.

24 yrs of head coaching and only 2 SB's?? Well that's not that good haha

 

[Half Empty]

OK Mr genius, please do tell us how many games Bellicheck would've won if he'd have had to roll with Garropolo and Brissett all season long last year.

Maybe as many as with Cassell?

 

[easyk83]

MM has his strongpoints but his loyalty to his staff might be his and the team's undoing.

 

[easyk83]

I'm going to say this though. I think this time ... even if MM is the one responsible for keeping Capers as long as he has, I do believe this time he's going to axe him if this nonsense on defense keeps up, and here's why:

I know between the playoff loss in SF in 2012 and the bad season of 2013 he was predicted to get fired, but you had two things at play at the time which were it was the first season Rodgers missed as significant time as he did, and the Superbowl year was still very fresh at the time, plus we still ended up making the playoffs that year. Then 2014 and 2015 in which our D got marginally better, esp in 2015 when the offense was struggling, I think some good will with Mark Murphy had been bought back. But I think between his defensive disaster of 2016 and this year, his clock is running out. 2016 he was smitten with injuries. This year though our starters on D have still been healthy enough despite Burnett, Rollins and Thomas being out that I think he can be held accountable. If we do miraculously make the playoffs, his bacon might be saved again. But if not, I suspect MM is going to finally let the axe fall and make wholesale changes on that side of the ball. i really feel this is the year the Packer brass says enough is enough with Capers.

His loyalty to Capers, and his subordinates, suggests that he thinks the players are where the fault lies. So if you're Ted Thompson do you take the blame for the defense's shortcomings? At what point do you get sick of shoveling free agents and draft picks into a unit that just doesn't get better? Ahmad Brooks Quinton Dial Davon House, every first round pick dating back to 2011 and oh yeah a majority of the second rounders during that time as well. Meanwhile your same FO keeps finding gems on the offensive side of the ball despite being shorthanded because of all those defensive draft picks. Our secondary still sucks but btw Micah Hyde and Casey Hayward are suddenly pro bowl caliber players in other defenses despite being average at best in Capers' secondary.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

His loyalty to Capers, and his subordinates, suggests that he thinks the players are where the fault lies. So if you're Ted Thompson do you take the blame for the defense's shortcomings? At what point do you get sick of shoveling free agents and draft picks into a unit that just doesn't get better? Ahmad Brooks Quinton Dial Davon House, every first round pick dating back to 2011 and oh yeah a majority of the second rounders during that time as well. Meanwhile your same FO keeps finding gems on the offensive side of the ball despite being shorthanded because of all those defensive draft picks. Our secondary still sucks but btw Micah Hyde and Casey Hayward are suddenly pro bowl caliber players in other defenses despite being average at best in Capers' secondary.

Hayward was pretty darn good when healthy here. Hyde has improved as a starter at safety in Buffalo but you think the Packers should have benched Burnett or Dix for Hyde? The issue for Hyde in Green Bay was that the team already had competent safeties (at least Dix looked like he might be competent last year). The issue with Hayward was that the front office misjudged what he would get paid, I still think it was a complete joke that the team let him walk for $5m per year, that's on Thompson, not Capers. Capers isn't the best but he's far from the worst. Just look at the success he's had with Burnett, Shields, Daniels, Matthews, Woodson, etc. The problem on defense is that the team has wasted high round picks on defensive players that haven't lived up to the billing. First round defensive players should be elite at their positions. In the last six drafts Thompson looks to have wasted that on Jones and Randall and Perry, while good now, is injury prone and was not good for the majority of his rookie deal meaning that he was effectively an "at-market" price free agent signing. Clinton Dix looked like he might be a good pick last year but this year he's regressed so much that it's no longer a certain thing that he'll be worth that first round pick. Those misses in the first round build up. That's not even accounting for the misses on guys like Worthy, Thornton, Rollins, and Fackrell in the second and third rounds.

Those gems on the offensive side of the ball might not be as gem-like without Rodgers under center. The QB is the only position in all of football that can single-handedly raise the performance of every other player on one side of the ball. That kind of impact doesn't exist on the defensive side of the ball. recent history has shown that the front office talent drain has robbed the packers of their edge in drafting.

 

[easyk83]

Hayward was pretty darn good when healthy here. Hyde has improved as a starter at safety in Buffalo but you think the Packers should have benched Burnett or Dix for Hyde? The issue for Hyde in Green Bay was that the team already had competent safeties (at least Dix looked like he might be competent last year). The issue with Hayward was that the front office misjudged what he would get paid, I still think it was a complete joke that the team let him walk for $5m per year, that's on Thompson, not Capers. Capers isn't the best but he's far from the worst. Just look at the success he's had with Burnett, Shields, Daniels, Matthews, Woodson, etc. The problem on defense is that the team has wasted high round picks on defensive players that haven't lived up to the billing. First round defensive players should be elite at their positions. In the last six drafts Thompson looks to have wasted that on Jones and Randall and Perry, while good now, is injury prone and was not good for the majority of his rookie deal meaning that he was effectively an "at-market" price free agent signing. Clinton Dix looked like he might be a good pick last year but this year he's regressed so much that it's no longer a certain thing that he'll be worth that first round pick. Those misses in the first round build up. That's not even accounting for the misses on guys like Worthy, Thornton, Rollins, and Fackrell in the second and third rounds.

Those gems on the offensive side of the ball might not be as gem-like without Rodgers under center. The QB is the only position in all of football that can single-handedly raise the performance of every other player on one side of the ball. That kind of impact doesn't exist on the defensive side of the ball. recent history has shown that the front office talent drain has robbed the packers of their edge in drafting.

Dom Capers is the most brilliant and innovative defensive mind in the game right now, and he's a terrible defensive coordinator. In this business there is such a thing as being too clever and dare I say too brilliant. Consider that top 2010 defense which really was a dominant unit throughout the season. That was not a true Capers defense. Because of injuries and it being only his second year Dom relied on a much simpler scheme. Mostly it was just single high safety with a safety in the box and a more limited number of checks and reads. In the following year we went to more of a two deep shell scheme and even before Collins was knocked out at Carolina our defense was notably worse, why? IMO a simpler scheme would allow our players to play faster and likely play better. BTW why do our corners play a lot of outside leverage with 2 high safety shells? Why do Capers' defenses show remarkable turnarounds when he first takes up his job and then steadily regress into mediocrity or worse? IMO it's because he tries to do too much with scheme and concepts. As he has more time in a system or with a team the more and more complicated his unit tends to become.

Thornton btw has turned into a good backup in Detroit and apart from one great year Hayward never looked like more than an able nickelback here. Now playing in a simpler zone defense he looks like a genuine star.

 

[easyk83]

BTW Rodgers isn't making Aaron Jones look like a budding star and he didnt make Linsley or Bakhtiari look as good as they do, not with Aaron's penchant for aggressive play. He also isn't responsible for Davante Adams' roundly praised route running, ability to adjust to the football or his lightning quick release. Yes Aaron does cover up for a lot, most of it on the Defensive side of the ball.

 

[Reggie White Cheese]

Who else is out there to take over and help... We need a complete overhaul, defense first. It is not that easy to just replace McCarthy. It is either keep what we have or, clean house. That simple.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Maybe as many as with Cassell?

I'm going to say no because of what happened in their home game against Buffalo that year.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

24 yrs of head coaching and only 2 SB's?? Well that's not that good haha

What the hell are you smoking? Last I checked this is his 12th year as head coach.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Indy went 6-3 without Luck in 2015. How was McCarthy's previous stint without Rodgers?

Means nothing, they went 8-8 and missed the playoffs. McCarthy's previous stint without Rodgers 8-7-1 and did make the playoffs. Point moot.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

BTW Rodgers isn't making Aaron Jones look like a budding star and he didnt make Linsley or Bakhtiari look as good as they do, not with Aaron's penchant for aggressive play. He also isn't responsible for Davante Adams' roundly praised route running, ability to adjust to the football or his lightning quick release. Yes Aaron does cover up for a lot, most of it on the Defensive side of the ball.

Every team has good players, yet you see plenty of 0 to 2 win teams around the league.

The problem is that the team did not play a bad game at all. The defense caused two big turnovers early, one which put them in scoring position, and Jones once again looked unstoppable and averaged nearly 8 YPC. Yet McCarthy was unable to put points on the board or sustain a drive because he called a bad game otherwise.

Means nothing, they went 8-8 and missed the playoffs. McCarthy's previous stint without Rodgers 8-7-1 and did make the playoffs. Point moot.

You either have no idea what you are talking about, or are completely ignoring the fact that 6 of those wins came with Rodgers. McCarthy won a whopping 2 out of 8 games without him.

I'm going to say no because of what happened in their home game against Buffalo that year.

Very convenient to leave out the two previous blowout victories over playoff teams prior to a Buffalo game where they were down to their third string rookie QB. You seem to have a habit of leaving out facts which hurt your argument.

 

[Poppa San]

What the hell are you smoking? Last I checked this is his 12th year as head coach.

Do you actually comprehend what you read? He was responding to a post that mentioned in 10 years McCarthy will have earned a 2nd SuperBowl. 10 + 12 = close enough for me.

 

[Carl 2]

Can we finally accept that McCarthy isn't good? Case in point:

Indy had their GM and head coach constantly on the hot seat over the past few years for being unable to surround Luck with enough talent to win, and for being unable to get to the playoffs. They have been 8-9 without Luck with what is viewed as a poor HC and incompetent GM.

We are now 3-8-1 without Rodgers. We need a better GM to obtain a SB roster, but McCarthy cannot win without Rodgers. The playoff games ended because of the defense not showing up at the end of games, or at all. Hayward and Hyde immediately elevated their level of play once they found new teams. Time to start anew. I have no idea how anyone can argue at this point.

McCarthy has won a Super Bowl. Bad coaches don't do that.

It's ridiculous to suggest MM hasn't been a good coach.

Yes, he probably should have more titles, but he clearly has been a good coach.

Yup.
He is wasting the best and prime years of his million dollar QB with the golden arm.
Rodgers should have at least one more ring by now.
And your right. Win against OK or worse teams then us.
Get into playoffs.
Don't pass when the run doesn't work. Just keep trying the run even though they get stopped.
Lose.
Repeat.

I'll probably get disagreement on that but if there is, then why hasn't McMoron taken us to another SB by now?
He refuses to change his formula that just isn't working anymore or will not adjust during games.

What games can you point too in which he didn't adjust?

 

[Carl 2]

Every team has good players, yet you see plenty of 0 to 2 win teams around the league.

The problem is that the team did not play a bad game at all. The defense caused two big turnovers early, one which put them in scoring position, and Jones once again looked unstoppable and averaged nearly 8 YPC. Yet McCarthy was unable to put points on the board or sustain a drive because he called a bad game otherwise.

You either have no idea what you are talking about, or are completely ignoring the fact that 6 of those wins came with Rodgers. McCarthy won a whopping 2 out of 8 games without him.


Very convenient to leave out the two previous blowout victories over playoff teams prior to a Buffalo game where they were down to their third string rookie QB. You seem to have a habit of leaving out facts which hurt your argument.

What were the bad calls that caused them to not score more points?

Think the point total had something to do with the QB being very inaccurate, or is it all on MM?

 

[Carl 2]

Only the truest of homers could excuse a coach for only winning 1/4 of their games for such a reason. What is the point of even having a backup QB if you are incapable of winning without your starter? The job of a coach is to win games, not have one player win games for him.

Was the offense in Indy not built around Luck? The one in Miami built around Tannehil? The one in NE built around Brady? Surely you don't think those first two teams have much more talent than we do. Why have these coaches been so much better without these guys? Homer talk defending a loser coach.

Um...the Colts have been awful without Luck... They are 2-5.

 

[Carl 2]

It's worth noting that Bill Belichick had 4 of 5 losing seasons in Cleveland and was fired.

And before Brady in NE, he was 5-13.

That makes him 41-57 before Brady.

Of course, nobody arguing against MM ever takes that into account.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

It's worth noting that Bill Belichick had 4 of 5 losing seasons in Cleveland and was fired.

And before Brady in NE, he was 5-13.

That makes him 41-57 before Brady.

Of course, nobody arguing against MM ever takes that into account.

You are talking his first stint with the freaking Browns 20 years ago. He was 11-5 with an average backup on his best day in Matt Cassell in a much more recent season, and 3-1 last year with a 3rd stringer playing most of the time. That's far more relevant than anything that you brought up. A coach is allowed to improve their craft over the years. Belichick has clearly evolved his game to a higher level than anyone else around, while we are still reminiscing about that one time we won a SB with our coach.

Um...the Colts have been awful without Luck... They are 2-5.

They were 6-3 in 2015 without him. They are bad this year, but that roster is definitely worse than our own. I'd hate to see McCarthy's record on a team like that.

 

[Carl 2]

You are talking his first stint with the freaking Browns 20 years ago. He was 11-5 with an average backup on his best day in Matt Cassell in a much more recent season, and 3-1 last year with a 3rd stringer playing most of the time. That's far more relevant than anything that you brought up. A coach is allowed to improve their craft over the years. Belichick has clearly evolved his game to a higher level than anyone else around, while we are still reminiscing about that one time we won a SB with our coach.

They were 6-3 in 2015 without him. They are bad this year, but that roster is definitely worse than our own. I'd hate to see McCarthy's record on a team like that.

So only some of BB's games without Brady count?

More relevant is to look at all of his games without Brady, not just the ones that fit your point of view.

The reality is that Belichick was not a successful head coach at all until Bledsoe got hurt and Brady came in.

Not to take anything away from. The best coaches off all time tended to have a great QB too - Lombardi and Starr, Walsh and Montana, Noll and Bradshaw.

 

[Half Empty]

It's worth noting that Bill Belichick had 4 of 5 losing seasons in Cleveland and was fired.

And before Brady in NE, he was 5-13.

That makes him 41-57 before Brady.

Of course, nobody arguing against MM ever takes that into account.

Certainly possible that I've been missing something in the discussion, but I always thought the point was that, WITH a HOF QB, the Pats under BB have been in the SB about half the time and won it about a third of the time, while our guy has one ring to show for it.