Might as well trade Rodgers....

[GleefulGary]

FWIW, there is no such thing as a high % Super Bowl. We’ve been 15-1 and lost. We’ve been a wild card team and won.

The best overall team doesn’t usually win the Super Bowl.

 

[GleefulGary]

The Green Bay Packers are 7th in yards per game. 3rd in scoring per game.

And somehow, I’m supposed to believe that the offense isn’t good enough?! Is it a flawed roster? Yes! It it still good enough? Yes!

You don’t mortgage your future for a player who has never had more than 700 yards in a season!

 

[Dantés]

We didn't need a primary game changer player....just a supporting #2 player who can give us that slight push from where we were before. A couple of good LBs and WRs were on the board who could have give us that. If there ever was a draft for us to be aggressive, 2020 was it.

I think it's fine to argue that they should have drafted Michael Pittman or Patrick Queen, but again-- if you think that players like that are the difference between "probably won't win a SB" and "probably would win a SB" then you are grossly overestimating the value of rookies and making an absurd argument.

 

[swhitset]

The notion that the 30th overall pick is the difference between a high % shot at a Super Bowl and a low % shot at a Super Bowl is absurd.

I also find it funny how many people are so insistent that the 2019 Packers played ahead of their capabilities when they are currently 6-2 with the second best scoring differential in the NFC. At a certain point, people still upset about the draft are going to have to accept that the Packers are good.

I think you just argued against yourself. The point to me, is that (especially when you look at the rest of the NFC this year) The Packers already have that high percentage shot at the Super bowl this year. That, to me, is the time to double down and go for it... not draft a potential starting QB for 3 years from now. I agree that pick 30 is not going to greatly elevate the team.... but that’s not what they needed. They just needed a little improvement in a couple of key areas. That being said, I do not endorse crippling the team for next year by making trades like the one that several people are claiming we should have done for Fuller etc... apparently the price was too high and I get that. The bottom line is that the draft and trade deadline are both over. I have to say that I have lost some confidence in Gute after this last draft... but am trying to keep an open mind.

 

[swhitset]

FWIW, there is no such thing as a high % Super Bowl. We’ve been 15-1 and lost. We’ve been a wild card team and won.

The best overall team doesn’t usually win the Super Bowl.

You might want to read up a little on how statistics work.

 

[Dantés]

I think you just argued against yourself. The point to me, is that (especially when you look at the rest of the NFC this year) The Packers already have that high percentage shot at the Super bowl this year. That, to me, is the time to double down and go for it... not draft a potential starting QB for 3 years from now. I agree that pick 30 is not going to greatly elevate the team.... but that’s not what they needed. They just needed a little improvement in a couple of key areas. That being said, I do not endorse crippling the team for next year by making trades like the one that several people are claiming we should have done for Fuller etc... apparently the price was too high and I get that. The bottom line is that the draft and trade deadline are both over. I have to say that I have lost some confidence in Gute after this last draft... but am trying to keep an open mind.

I did not argue against myself, because I am not arguing that taking Love was the right thing to do.

I favored them taking a WR and have stated many, many times that I wish they had done so.

But the assertion made here was that in taking Love, the Packers went from "probably will win the SB" to "probably won't win the SB."

That is ridiculous as it grossly overstates the importance and value of a rookie drafted at the end of the first round.

As for confidence in Gutekunst, that will be gained or lost for me as we get further along and have the chance to assess his body of work with the benefit of hindsight. I am not going to base it on whether he fulfilled my wishes on any particular draft day.

 

[Dantés]

You might want to read up a little on how statistics work.

You might want to read up a little on the discussion you've decided to join.

"We've effectively traded a high % probability for SB this year..." was the statement that was made. Gary's response makes sense.

 

[swhitset]

You might want to read up a little on the discussion you've decided to join.

"We've effectively traded a high % probability for SB this year..." was the statement that was made. Gary's response makes sense.

Don’t be so obtuse as to think that a public discussion is somehow private simply because others haven’t bothered to chime in... as for your response ... I disagree. Gary’s statement was definitive and overstating obvious facts.

 

[Dantés]

Don’t be so obtuse as to think that a public discussion is somehow private simply because others haven’t bothered to chime in... as for your response ... I disagree. Gary’s statement was definitive and overstating obvious facts.

It's not private... that's the point. You should read it so that you understand what's going on instead of making comments and criticisms that fail to understand what's being discussed.

 

[swhitset]

I did not argue against myself, because I am not arguing that taking Love was the right thing to do.

I favored them taking a WR and have stated many, many times that I wish they had done so.

But the assertion made here was that in taking Love, the Packers went from "probably will win the SB" to "probably won't win the SB."

That is ridiculous as it grossly overstates the importance and value of a rookie drafted at the end of the first round.

As for confidence in Gutekunst, that will be gained or lost for me as we get further along and have the chance to assess his body of work with the benefit of hindsight. I am not going to base it on whether he fulfilled my wishes on any particular draft day.

i think you are paraphrasing the actual argument to better suit your point. I actually mostly agree with you, but certainly understand those that believe that any pick that would have helped the team this year would have been preferable to drafting Love.

 

[swhitset]

It's not private... that's the point. You should read it so that you understand what's going on instead of making comments and criticisms that fail to understand what's being discussed.

Lol I have no problem understanding what is being discussed nor have I failed to read the preceding material. Nothing you have said makes Gary’s statement correct. I didn’t need your explanation... I understood what he meant... but his statement is simply wrong on its face .... don’t care what he meant.

 

[Dantés]

i think you are paraphrasing the actual argument to better suit your point. I actually mostly agree with you, but certainly understand those that believe that any pick that would have helped the team this year would have been preferable to drafting Love.

Lol. I literally quoted it for you.

 

[GleefulGary]

You might want to read up a little on how statistics work.

I took a college class on it years ago. I think I’m okay.

 

[GleefulGary]

Lol I have no problem understanding what is being discussed nor have I failed to read the preceding material. Nothing you have said makes Gary’s statement correct. I didn’t need your explanation... I understood what he meant... but his statement is simply wrong on its face .... don’t care what he meant.

Me: You’re not understanding right!

You: Oh I understand it just fine!

Me: No you don’t!

You: Yes I do!



There, I just saved us a good 10 minutes of arguing. You’re welcome! Have a great day!

 

[XPack]

So who would you have taken at the original draft spot, without the benefit of hindsight?

Best available LB or WR.

 

[gopkrs]

if we keep drafting low; the chances of coming up with a franchise QB there is not good. You have to be lucky in fact. Obviously our graders think Love has a chance. If Love becomes that guy he was way worth it imho.

 

[GleefulGary]

Best available LB or WR.

Name names. You’ve got it all figured out, certainly you should be able to name names. Best available is a cop out.

 

[XPack]

Name names. You’ve got it all figured out, certainly you should be able to name names. Best available is a cop out.

Wouldn't have traded up. Picked Chinn or Queen. I thought Chinn was similar to Raven Greene but better.

 

[Dantés]

Wouldn't have traded up. Picked Chinn or Queen. I thought Chinn was similar to Raven Greene but better.

So in your opinion, the Packers without, say, Patrick Queen have a low % chance to win a ring, but with him they would have had a high % chance? Seriously?

Patrick Queen has sucked by the way. Which is not at all a criticism of you, but rather just an illustration that rookies don't often make a huge difference.

 

[GleefulGary]

Wouldn't have traded up. Picked Chinn or Queen. I thought Chinn was similar to Raven Greene but better.

Well, if you wouldn’t have traded up, you wouldn’t have gotten Queen either. He was off the board.

I like Chinn. Think he’s a good player. He’s not the difference between a SB or not this year.

I’m not a huge PFF fan, but they work in certain cases. So just for perspective, Chinn’s PFF rating is a 54.6. Raven Greene is a 57.9.

Now I have no idea how Carolina is using him, haven’t watched a bit, so it’s not a fair comparison. I’m just trying to point out that he wouldn’t have been the difference between a high % chance at the SB and a low % chance. Very few rookies are.

 

[GleefulGary]

So in your opinion, the Packers without, say, Patrick Queen have a low % chance to win a ring, but with him they would have had a high % chance? Seriously?

Patrick Queen has sucked by the way. Which is not at all a criticism of you, but rather just an illustration that rookies don't often make a huge difference.

Patrick Queen PFF: 36.5 (his coverage has been really bad)

Krys Barnes PFF: 41.8

 

[swhitset]

Name names. You’ve got it all figured out, certainly you should be able to name names. Best available is a cop out.

Nonsense. I don’t need to have access to Gute’s draft board to know that it would have had names of players on it that would have had a more likely chance of helping this year. Furthermore I don’t need to know who they are without researching it. We are fans, not NFL GMs. That is why in general, I trust their decisions more than I would my own. That being said, there wouldn’t be much point in this forum if we didn’t question a few things. Simply saying we’d rather have a player in a position of need rather than another QB should not immediately trigger the “you must name exactly who nonsense.

 

[Dantés]

Nonsense. I don’t need to have access to Gute’s draft board to know that it would have had names of players on it that would have had a more likely chance of helping this year. Furthermore I don’t need to know who they are without researching it. We are fans, not NFL GMs. That is why in general, I trust their decisions more than I would my own. That being said, there wouldn’t be much point in this forum if we didn’t question a few things. Simply saying we’d rather have a player in a position of need rather than another QB should not immediately trigger the “you must name exactly who nonsense.

No one expects any poster on this forum to have the expertise or knowledge of the front office.

But it ain’t nonsense to ask someone what they would have done when they are so certain that the FO screwed up.

But this is how it typically goes. People implicitly claim enough knowledge to be able to criticize the GM or the coach, and then decide to play the fool when they’re asked for alternative solutions.

Both of those things are fine, but in conjunction they’re pretty silly.

 

[swhitset]

No one expects any poster on this forum to have the expertise or knowledge of the front office.

But it ain’t nonsense to ask someone what they would have done when they are so certain that the FO screwed up.

But this is how it typically goes. People implicitly claim enough knowledge to be able to criticize the GM or the coach, and then decide to play the fool when they’re asked for alternative solutions.

Both of those things are fine, but in conjunction they’re pretty silly.

i already stated above why it’s nonsense... Frankly, I’m sure as usual, your ego is going to require you to get the last word so... go ahead, but I won’t see it.. i’ve decided to follow the lead of a few others on here and put you on ignore.

 

[Dantés]

i already stated above why it’s nonsense... Frankly, I’m sure as usual, your ego is going to require you to get the last word so... go ahead, but I won’t see it.. i’ve decided to follow the lead of a few others on here and put you on ignore.

Probably for the best. We don’t need any more hurt feelings around here.