Kevin King & Quentin Rollins

[HardRightEdge]

I really cant wait to see Kevin King develop. He could be something really special. The next Charles Woodson?

Not the next Woodson. He's not that physical. Not to mention the fact Woodson is probably a first ballot HOFer, which is a pretty high bar I do believe.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Whitt on 2016: "You lose your best player in Sam, your 2nd-best player goes somewhere else, and your 3 young guys, 2 of them have surgery."

What a WHINER!

Is Whitt referring to Hayward being their 2nd best player going elsewhere? Maybe if he is using hindsight and looking at his ability in San Diego, but not while in GB.

By using logic the Packers made the right moves in the 2015 draft, using high draft picks on both Randall and Rollins, they had to know that with Sam Shields concussion history, he was a ticking time bomb and they needed capable corners. Sadly, the bad part of the plan happened as predicted, Shields was lost for good. The other part of the plan hasn't worked out so well (yet), 2 second year corners marred in injury and poor play. I would like to say injury was 100% the reason for the 2 of them playing poorly in 2016, but realistically I have to consider they just aren't that good, at least 1st/2nd round good, or Whitt and Capers just haven't been able to coach them. I also think this year's draft was a definite indication that even TT himself isn't so confident that his best laid plans made in 2015, for the CB position, are still a work in progress.

If Randall and Rollins both can stay healthy in 2017, this is the year for them, Whitt and Capers to put up or shut up and TT to some extent as well, since he drafted them.

 

[Dantés]

Is Whitt referring to Hayward being their 2nd best player going elsewhere? Maybe if he is using hindsight and looking at his ability in San Diego, but not while in GB.

By using logic the Packers made the right moves in the 2015 draft, using high draft picks on both Randall and Rollins, they had to know that with Sam Shields concussion history, he was a ticking time bomb and they needed capable corners. Sadly, the bad part of the plan happened as predicted, Shields was lost for good. The other part of the plan hasn't worked out so well (yet), 2 second year corners marred in injury and poor play. I would like to say injury was 100% the reason for the 2 of them playing poorly in 2016, but realistically I have to consider they just aren't that good, at least 1st/2nd round good, or Whitt and Capers just haven't been able to coach them. I also think this year's draft was a definite indication that even TT himself isn't so confident that his best laid plans made in 2015, for the CB position, are still a work in progress.

If Randall and Rollins both can stay healthy in 2017, this is the year for them, Whitt and Capers to put up or shut up and TT to some extent as well, since he drafted them.

I think Hayward was easily the 2nd best corner on the team coming off of 2015.

 

[MiamiBeachPacker]

There's absolutely no reason to put too much stock into reports from practice.



The Ravens have already lost Dennis Pitta, their #1 tight end who caught 86 passes last season, to a career ending injury as well as Crockett Gilmore (#2 TE) and fourth round OL Nico Siragusa (torn ACL, MCL and PCL) for the 2017 season while Joe Flacco is out several weeks with a back injury.

Yet Packers fans complain about the team's first selection in this year's draft being held out of practice as a precaution. And people still wonder why I get tired about injuries being used as an excuse.

Ravens also lost Kenneth Dixon, who was supposed to be their starting RB this season

 

[Dantés]

There's absolutely no reason to put too much stock into reports from practice.



The Ravens have already lost Dennis Pitta, their #1 tight end who caught 86 passes last season, to a career ending injury as well as Crockett Gilmore (#2 TE) and fourth round OL Nico Siragusa (torn ACL, MCL and PCL) for the 2017 season while Joe Flacco is out several weeks with a back injury.

Yet Packers fans complain about the team's first selection in this year's draft being held out of practice as a precaution. And people still wonder why I get tired about injuries being used as an excuse.

Dude... you need to get over it.

A poster can't say that they "hope a trend" doesn't continue of players missing time with injuries without you going on a rant about how you don't like that kind of talk? Let's calm down here.

Yes, a very small minority of posters might use injuries as a means to excuse every fault of the players, staff, and front office. Those people are called homers and they exist in every single fan community in the world.

The overwhelming majority consider injuries one factor among many and lie along a spectrum in terms of how much they think injuries should be considered.

You don't seem to ever want to consider them. That's your prerogative. But do you expect no one to talk about it because it bothers you? Because you might be overestimating how much people care about what you perceive as appropriate forum material.

 

[OldSchool101]

Dude... you need to get over it.

A poster can't say that they "hope a trend" doesn't continue of players missing time with injuries without you going on a rant about how you don't like that kind of talk? Let's calm down here.

Yes, a very small minority of posters might use injuries as a means to excuse every fault of the players, staff, and front office. Those people are called homers and they exist in every single fan community in the world.

The overwhelming majority consider injuries one factor among many and lie along a spectrum in terms of how much they think injuries be considered.

You don't seem to ever want to consider them. That's your prerogative. But do you expect no one to talk about it because it bothers you? Because you might be overestimating how much people care about what you perceive as appropriate forum material.

Agreed. Members of all levels of the coaching staff and many of the players themselves have alluded to injuries as one of several key factors that had an impact specifically in the GB secondary in 2016.
Sports injuries are one of the top reasons why athletes performance varies and have cost a plethora of Championship level athletes to fall short in a variety of sports. Track, Tennis, Golf, Basketball, Boxing... the list is endless.
Maybe we should call the NFL and tell them that PUP and injury designations need to be relabeled weekly as varying degrees of the "PRE" list each week. " Players Ridiculous Excuses"!

 

[Zartan]

Not the next Woodson. He's not that physical. Not to mention the fact Woodson is probably a first ballot HOFer, which is a pretty high bar I do believe.

I set the bar high as my optimistic is high on him. If hes a bust hes a bust.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think Hayward was easily the 2nd best corner on the team coming off of 2015.

Not sure the Packers agreed with that or they may have seen to it that he was resigned. Not attempting to reopen the Casey Hayward debate either. At that time, I was under the impression the Packers loved what they had with Shields, Randall and Rollins and that was what made Hayward expendable. Which is why I found Witt's comments about losing his second best CB to another team, somewhat said using perfect hindsight.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I set the bar high as my optimistic is high on him. If hes a bust hes a bust.

I do detect some middle ground between bust and first ballot HOFer. I'll make the bold prediction King will find it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Personally, I am disgusted that they have kept their medical/athletic training staff with recurrent injuries. They have an old school mind set in the field and treat injured athletes opposed to work more on injury prevention.

The Packers medical and training staff is widely considered to be one of the best in the league though.

Dude... you need to get over it.

A poster can't say that they "hope a trend" doesn't continue of players missing time with injuries without you going on a rant about how you don't like that kind of talk? Let's calm down here.

Yes, a very small minority of posters might use injuries as a means to excuse every fault of the players, staff, and front office. Those people are called homers and they exist in every single fan community in the world.

The overwhelming majority consider injuries one factor among many and lie along a spectrum in terms of how much they think injuries be considered.

You don't seem to ever want to consider them. That's your prerogative. But do you expect no one to talk about it because it bothers you? Because you might be overestimating how much people care about what you perceive as appropriate forum material.

I fully understand that injuries can derail a team's season but for sure don't consider missing a single week 1 starter on defense entering the NFCCG as a valid excuse for the unit giving up 44 points.

The 2010 squad was able to overcome 15 players being put on injured reserve because the roster was extremely deep. That definitely doesn't hold true for last year's team and should be considered as the main reason the Packers came up short.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

don't consider missing a single week 1 starter on defense entering the NFCCG as a valid excuse for the unit giving up 44 points.

I agree to an extent, but that is a highly antiquated mindset on the "week 1 starter" thing. Of course, we've been through that already, so /shrug.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree to an extent, but that is a highly antiquated mindset on the "week 1 starter" thing.

Aside of Shields the other Packers defensive players that missed the NFCCG because of injury have combined to start a total of five games over their respective careers.

There's no other way to look at it than that the team only missed a single starter on that side of the ball at Atlanta.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

Aside of Shields the other Packers defensive players that missed the NFCCG because of injury have combined to start a total of five games over their respective careers.

There's no other way to look at it than that the team only missed a single starter on that side of the ball at Atlanta.

I wasn't referring to that in terms of that game, but rather to the idea of starter vs non starter as a whole. Poorly interjected on my part.

 

[Dantés]

The Packers medical and training staff is widely considered to be one of the best in the league though.



I fully understand that injuries can derail a team's season but for sure don't consider missing a single week 1 starter on defense entering the NFCCG as a valid excuse for the unit giving up 44 points.

The 2010 squad was able to overcome 15 players being put on injured reserve because the roster was extremely deep. That definitely doesn't hold true for last year's team and should be considered as the main reason the Packers came up short.

Sure, OK.

It's just bizarre that someone can't say "hope this recent string of injuries doesn't continue" without a rant centered around your personal frustration.

 

[RRyder]

I think Hayward was easily the 2nd best corner on the team coming off of 2015.

Hayward lost his starting job to Randell and was losing playing time to Rollins in the slot.

No doubt he had a great year last year but when he was surpassed by one rookie on the depth chart and losing playing time to another rookie it's hard to argue he was "easily" the 2nd best anything that year

 

[HardRightEdge]

The Packers medical and training staff is widely considered to be one of the best in the league though.

First it was hamstrings. Then it was knees. Now it's feet. They're working their way down to where there won't be anymore body parts. I guess we could still have a rash of turf toes.

There was that story about a hot shot orthopedist moving to Green Bay. I guess he followed the prescription, "go where the jobs are".

 

[Dantés]

Hayward lost his starting job to Randell and was losing playing time to Rollins in the slot.

No doubt he had a great year last year but when he was surpassed by one rookie on the depth chart and losing playing time to another rookie it's hard to argue he was "easily" the 2nd best anything that year

Well... he led the team in snaps at cornerback by a decent margin and I thought he provided the best coverage after Shields.

This isn't meant to be a shot at the FO. I know Capers never got out of him what he showed in San Diego last year.

But I do think that the decision to move on was based more on the projection of the young players than their actually being better than him in 2015.

So to Whitt's point-- you let the guy go because of the youth movement, Shields goes down early, and then both of the youngsters need surgery. Not a good situation.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Well... he led the team in snaps at cornerback by a decent margin and I thought he provided the best coverage after Shields.

This isn't meant to be a shot at the FO. I know Capers never got out of him what he showed in San Diego last year.

But I do think that the decision to move on was based more on the projection of the young players than their actually being better than him in 2015.

So to Whitt's point-- you let the guy go because of the youth movement, Shields goes down early, and then both of the youngsters need surgery. Not a good situation.

Hayward always impressed me as a zone corner which is not a good fit in a Capers defense. Anybody know what San Diego plays?

 

[Dantés]

Hayward always impressed me as a zone corner which is not a good fit in a Capers defense. Anybody know what San Diego plays?

My understanding is that Pagano called as much or more man as Capers.

Having grown up in San Diego and watched the Chargers faithfully every year, I observed a lot of man-- both from the off and press techniques.

 

[HardRightEdge]

My understanding is that Pagano called as much or more man as Capers.

Having grown up in San Diego and watched the Chargers faithfully every year, I observed a lot of man-- both from the off and press techniques.

Well, I suppose Capers couldn't find a way to use him properly. I seem to recall his rookie picks came mostly from jumping routes in zone.

I guess I'm supposed to say "Los Angeles Chargers" now.

 

[Yogididit]

I set the bar high as my optimistic is high on him. If hes a bust hes a bust.

Didn't you just compare JJ to Woodson as well?

 

[RepStar15]

The Packers medical and training staff is widely considered to be one of the best in the league though.



I fully understand that injuries can derail a team's season but for sure don't consider missing a single week 1 starter on defense entering the NFCCG as a valid excuse for the unit giving up 44 points.

The 2010 squad was able to overcome 15 players being put on injured reserve because the roster was extremely deep. That definitely doesn't hold true for last year's team and should be considered as the main reason the Packers came up short.

By what metric are they considered the best medical/training staff in the league? Because the players like them? Did you see any other team last year that scarce at one position? It's from a lack of practical and functional conditioning. I am an athletic trainer myself. Two players, in the same position, suffering from the same injury tells me one thing: I am not doing my job. There is no explanation as to why multiple groin strains should occur on a professional football team. Hell, when I worked at a college, high school and interned for a season with the pats I cannot recall a single groin strain. At least not one that required missing multiple weeks. That is one of the most preventable injuries there are. I do agree that the packers should have been able to prevail in the NFC championship and in my opinion they would have beat any team in the league besides the Falcons and the Steelers. Those offenses were way too much for our defense (as weak as it was) to prevail. I'm certain they would have beat the patriots in the super bowl though. Loved that match up for us.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

By what metric are they considered the best medical/training staff in the league? Because the players like them? Did you see any other team last year that scarce at one position? It's from a lack of practical and functional conditioning. I am an athletic trainer myself. Two players, in the same position, suffering from the same injury tells me one thing: I am not doing my job. There is no explanation as to why multiple groin strains should occur on a professional football team. Hell, when I worked at a college, high school and interned for a season with the pats I cannot recall a single groin strain. At least not one that required missing multiple weeks. That is one of the most preventable injuries there are. I do agree that the packers should have been able to prevail in the NFC championship and in my opinion they would have beat any team in the league besides the Falcons and the Steelers. Those offenses were way too much for our defense (as weak as it was) to prevail. I'm certain they would have beat the patriots in the super bowl though. Loved that match up for us.

I was wondering just what exactly this training staff ranking was based off as well

 

[rmontro]

So to Whitt's point-- you let the guy go because of the youth movement, Shields goes down early, and then both of the youngsters need surgery. Not a good situation.

Whatever some might think of Hayward and how he fit into Capers system, I liked what I saw of him and felt comfortable with him out there. At one point I thought we actually had a pretty decent secondary, with Tramon Williams, Davon House, and Casey Hayward. I thought it was a mistake to let all three of them go, in fact I couldn't believe it. And if I could have kept one it would have been Hayward. I was not happy when Hayward left, so it is not hindsight.

I think Ted let him go because he didn't want to pay him, and as a result (along with the losses of Williams and House) we were left with a secondary that
a) was not very deep, and
b) did not have much experience.
Then Shields got hurt and the bottom fell out.

 

[Dantés]

Whatever some might think of Hayward and how he fit into Capers system, I liked what I saw of him and felt comfortable with him out there. At one point I thought we actually had a pretty decent secondary, with Tramon Williams, Davon House, and Casey Hayward. I thought it was a mistake to let all three of them go, in fact I couldn't believe it. And if I could have kept one it would have been Hayward. I was not happy when Hayward left, so it is not hindsight.

I think Ted let him go because he didn't want to pay him, and as a result (along with the losses of Williams and House) we were left with a secondary that
a) was not very deep, and
b) did not have much experience.
Then Shields got hurt and the bottom fell out.

It's hard for me to fault the FO for not keeping Hayward when he hadn't emerged as the ground boundary corner he is now until after he left. I'm more frustrated that the coaching staff didn't get that out of him beforehand.