Just another MM lost his touch, AR12 was subversive, we need Kolin thread.

[Zartan]

I dident move it.

 

[Jim Lite]

Kaepernick's overall stats are better than Rodgers last 3 games.

 

[Jim Lite]

Those are mutually exclusive? And, remember that one has an entire thread devoted to this https://www.packerforum.com/threads/disrespecting-our-national-anthem.75273/

That thread is a debate on the political/racist/free speech issue. The hope was for a discussion based solely on athletic talent, and ability of the QB, sans the jingoistic vitriol.

Still waiting for the answer...
Jim Lite said: ↑
What's more important ...a winning season, or whether a player conforms to a pre-game ritual?

 

[swhitset]

Kaepernick's overall stats are better than Rodgers last 3 games.

Which means pretty much nothing since Rodgers has not been playing very well anyway. Kaepernick was getting benched long before any of the political crap started.

 

[swhitset]

That thread is a debate on the political/racist/free speech issue. The hope was for a discussion based solely on athletic talent, and ability of the QB, sans the jingoistic vitriol.

Still waiting for the answer...
Jim Lite said: ↑
What's more important ...a winning season, or whether a player conforms to a pre-game ritual?

You do realize how odd your first two are sentences seem when followed by the second two don’t you?

 

[red4tribe]

I think Kaepernick would still be in the league if he hadn’t kneeled, but it would be as a backup. He was declining and had been benched well before he started kneeling. And, while I personally support Kaepernick’s protest, no NFL team is going to sign a backup QB (a guy who won’t even be on the field, barring injury) with all of the political and social issues he would bring.

 

[Half Empty]

That thread is a debate on the political/racist/free speech issue. The hope was for a discussion based solely on athletic talent, and ability of the QB, sans the jingoistic vitriol.

Still waiting for the answer...
Jim Lite said: ↑
What's more important ...a winning season, or whether a player conforms to a pre-game ritual?

As to the ability of the QB - not much there. A gifted athlete, but not with the skills necessary to be a consistent, successful NFL QB.

The quick answer to the question. Thought I'd done that the first time - well, maybe addressed as opposed to answered. Don't see how it's a legitimate query - a winning season is not dependent upon personal conduct.

A more involved answer. Would the question apply if it was a winning season or a player beating up his girlfriend or a player tweeting derisive comments about the team or a player not going through the pre-game ritual of warming up or a player not wearing all the approved uniform or...?

To summarize 'my' side of the other thread. No problem with free speech, on one's own time. Free speech is not an absolute right. Free speech is even less of an absolute right in many employment situations.

I will give you this much, though. Virtually everything is relative. If Rodgers had decided to do it at many stages prior to this year, I'm pretty sure some kind of arrangement would have been reached. Kap's problem is just that he's not anybody's key piece.

 

[longtimefan]

Surely the mod who moved could find a better name for this?

I moved it..

 

[Jim Lite]

Jim Lite said: ↑
That thread is a debate on the political/racist/free speech issue. The hope was for a discussion based solely on athletic talent, and ability of the QB, sans the jingoistic vitriol.

Still waiting for the answer...
Jim Lite said: ↑
What's more important ...a winning season, or whether a player conforms to a pre-game ritual?

You do realize how odd your first two are sentences seem when followed by the second two don’t you?

The overall concept should be clear:

Ignoring the political backlash, Kaepernick could be effective as a more healthy backup for an ailing Rodgers.

 

[swhitset]

Jim Lite said: ↑
That thread is a debate on the political/racist/free speech issue. The hope was for a discussion based solely on athletic talent, and ability of the QB, sans the jingoistic vitriol.

Still waiting for the answer...
Jim Lite said: ↑
What's more important ...a winning season, or whether a player conforms to a pre-game ritual?
The overall concept should be clear:

Ignoring the political backlash, Kaepernick could be effective as a more healthy backup for an ailing Rodgers.

Kapernick doesn’t fit with the Packers’ offense. And frankly, I’m not convinced he could succeed on any NFL Team anymore. he was a one dimensional player and defenses had figured him out. I suppose you are right that he might be able to serve as a backup... provided that he was not needed for multiple games. I think once it is known that he was going to be the starter the opposing team would be able to game plan for him... and he would continue to be ineffective.

 

[Jim Lite]

As to the ability of the QB - not much there. A gifted athlete, but not with the skills necessary to be a consistent, successful NFL QB.

The question is, could a gifted and healthy QB have done better than Rodgers,in his most recent games?

The quick answer to the question. Thought I'd done that the first time - well, maybe addressed as opposed to answered. Don't see how it's a legitimate query - a winning season is not dependent upon personal conduct.

Exactly my point: A winning season is not dependent upon personal conduct.

A more involved answer. Would the question apply if it was a winning season or a player beating up his girlfriend or a player tweeting derisive comments about the team or a player not going through the pre-game ritual of warming up or a player not wearing all the approved uniform or...?

Domestic violence is unacceptable--PERIOD.

Although it may seem politically correct, standing, with hand over heart is not the only way to show respect during the performing of the National Anthem. Not so benign if a player should raise his middle finger. Contrary to public opinion, Colin Kaepernick did nothing in disrespect of the flag, or us service veterans.

To summarize 'my' side of the other thread. No problem with free speech, on one's own time. Free speech is not an absolute right. Free speech is even less of an absolute right in many employment situations.

The employer could certainly be understanding and tolerant, in allowing the player free speech, as long as it isn't clearly disrespectful.

I will give you this much, though. Virtually everything is relative. If Rodgers had decided to do it at many stages prior to this year, I'm pretty sure some kind of arrangement would have been reached. Kap's problem is just that he's not anybody's key piece.

Political correctness aside, I still think Colin Kaepernick has the potential to be an effective backup QB for an ailing Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Jim Lite]

Kapernick doesn’t fit with the Packers’ offense.

And Aaron Rodgers--in his present state--does fit with the Packers' “offense” (as it were)?

​

And frankly, I’m not convinced he could succeed on any NFL Team anymore. he was a one dimensional player and defenses had figured him out. I suppose you are right that he might be able to serve as a backup... provided that he was not needed for multiple games. I think once it is known that he was going to be the starter the opposing team would be able to game plan for him... and he would continue to be ineffective.

Of Aaron Rodgers, it could also be said that defenses had figured him out. Of course the Packers offense would need to adjust to the strengths and weaknesses of any new QB. But the QB would need to be healthy. Aaron Rodgers needs to be replaced, until he--both physically and mentally--recovers from recent trauma.

 

[rmontro]

Aaron Rodgers needs to be replaced, until he--both physically and mentally--recovers from recent trauma.

I'd say mentally he needs to work through it. Physically he doesn't appear to be 100% but Favre played with much worse.
Are you seriously recommending we bench Rodgers so we can play Colin Kaepernick?

Rodgers isn't playing his best, and has some self reflecting to do. But the team as a whole right now either lacks talent or isn't gelling. We saw it last year, we're seeing it this year. Gute needs to add more pieces, and we need a new coach to come in and bring some positivity and fresh ideas.

 

[swhitset]

And Aaron Rodgers--in his present state--does fit with the Packers' “offense” (as it were)?

​

Of Aaron Rodgers, it could also be said that defenses had figured him out. Of course the Packers offense would need to adjust to the strengths and weaknesses of any new QB. But the QB would need to be healthy. Aaron Rodgers needs to be replaced, until he--both physically and mentally--recovers from recent trauma.

Your attempted rebuttal did not actually address what I said.

 

[Jim Lite]

Your attempted rebuttal did not actually address what I said.

Every liability you pin on Kaepernick, is more applicable to Rodgers, who, sad to say, has lost his mojo. Do you know of a potentially better replacement?

 

[Jim Lite]

Are you seriously recommending we bench Rodgers so we can play Colin Kaepernick?

It would be a really bold move to sign Kaepernick as backup QB. It could very well be the spark needed to re-energize the team.

The fact that Colin was born in Milwaukee may well be added impetus for him to really put his heart into performing at his best for Green Bay. He should at least be given a chance.

 

[Jim Lite]

Surely the mod who moved could find a better name for this?

I moved it..

Re: the thread header ...all due respect, but the correct spelling of his name is Colin

And what's the “AR12 was subversive” part all about?

 

[swhitset]

Every liability you pin on Kaepernick, is more applicable to Rodgers, who, sad to say, has lost his mojo. Do you know of a potentially better replacement?

That is a ridiculous assertion. I said Kaepernick was one dimensional and that defenses had figured that out. That most certainly does not apply to Rodgers... even this year. Rodgers has been called by some to be the best QB in the NFL over a very long period of time. He has proven his abilities over and over again. Do I think he is perfect? Of course not. I have been very critical of him this year... but that is based on judging him compared to the abilities he has been proven to be capable of over a long period of time. Rodgers needs to get some things fixed, but frankly this discussion is ludicrous and I think it best to just close by agreeing that we have different opinions about the abilities of Colin Kaepernick.

 

[longtimefan]

Re: the thread header ...all due respect, but the correct spelling of his name is Colin

And what's the “AR12 was subversive” part all about?

I said i moved it..didn't say I altered the title to what you see now