Javon gets his answer

[skibum55]

C'mon guys.....the meat of Bruce's argument is that Walker is worth more than Randle El. Is there anyone on the planet that would not agree with that?

I agree Walker is worth more than El.

As a straight-up receiver, JW is more than likely better than Randle-El. However, IMHO, Randle-El is a better all-around player. Remember guys, he was also a QB in college, drafted as a WR. He still throws a pretty tight spiral on the option. This always opens up offensive possibilities.

I don't think I've ever seen JW given the opportunity to throw. But I could be wrong. :?: :?: :?:

 

[warhawk]

First off, Randle El, if I'm not mistaken, has played for a team that has thrown fewer passes than anybody in the Nfl.

That's why numbers don't always tell the story.

Second, who here on this forum can say that Walker will be physically able to play at 100% this year? Eight percent? Nobody.

Why do you think that teams like Philly offer a 10 year vet and a third rounder? Because that's all he's worth? NO. They don't know for sure what they are getting.

Yet with TT taking the prudent course especially with Walker using his own guys and being out in the dark on the rehab he's an idiot.

Do you not think that this all enters into this situation? Randle El signs for $31 mil and we get offered junk for Walker. But we should just go ahead and pay him anyways? Why? Because he's pissed off.

Oh well, I guess we better do it then.

 

[IPBprez]

I think it might take a month to figure that out. I bet last season if Walker had stayed healthy, Drew and TT would have really started talking just after the Saints game and an extension would have been completed by the end of October. Now, I'd want to see how JW looks in training camp and the pre-season, and if, like I'd expect, all goes well, I'd try to get the extension done before week 1 or 2. I'd also sit JW down and tell him this was my plan. I may be a youngster, but I've learned that being honest with people who work for you is the best policy.

Your second statement is also a fair point DePack and I probably wouldn't also make that trade, but Walker has some pretty large red flags associated with him. Doing anything with him is pretty risky (though TT does get the big bucks to make those decisions and to make sure they're the right ones).

Yea...you're right. And he certainly didn't help his cause by rehabbing away from Green Bay. Kind of hard to tell how healthy he is if he's never around.

That's the slam-dunk, right there - he should've done it the Ahman Green way!

Haven't checked, but how often has Randle EL been on the injured list? Ever?

No matter how talented a guy is - if you want to deal with a TO like character, you're taking your chances; with Randle EL, you get class and dedication, akin to a Jerry Rice, or an Emmit Smith.. or... a Brett Favre!

I'll take Randle EL with this thread. no matter where the talent lay.
On top of that, Randle El makes one helluva a backup QB out there - I watched him play at IU.

 

[Bruce]

Randle EL will never play QB in the NFL. Yes he threw a TD pass, so did Bubba Franks. Ahman Green has thrown several and so has Tony Fischer. Big deal. Randle El is an undersized WR with some skills. However, they are skills that pale in comparison to Walker -- who is bigger, faster and has better hands.

NO ONE is saying that Thompson should hand the keys to the vault to Walker. He is handling Javon's latest tantrum masterfully -- firm, concise and burning no bridges.

And Walker is under contract, he has been examined by Packer's doctors and trainers -- but as per CBA contract Walker can do his rehab with the staff of his desire. He is not sitting on his *** as some have hypothesised, rather he is working his *** off, like he does every off season, hoping to be traded to a team where his talents are appreciated.

The point that seem to keep getting lost is that what I wrote was in response to the bogus claims that Walker was a rookie bust, that he had one good season and that he has no reason to be unhappy with his situation...

All of that is easily refuted... but as soon as one does, the same posters return to the same BUNK claims, "He is lazy" "He has always had an attitude" He was a rookie bust -- did he return the money" "He had ONE good season" "He is a mediocre receiver at best -- who has never proven anything"

If he had not gotten injured last season Thompson would be begging him and his agent to talk extention. But he did get injured -- physically and his pride.

Brett Favre was out of line to call him out like that last season. Everyone blames Walker for the media circus, but did it occur to any of us that Brett throwing gasoline on the fire made it so much worse? Walker's pride got hurt and he felt betrayed by a QB he loved and played his heart out for. Did management (Sherman or Thompson) do a single thing to try and ease the situation or to reel it in? Hell no, they sat back gleefully as Brett did their dirty work. The result was a loss of respect for Favre in many quarters around the league -- and a riff on this team.

Don't get me wrong, I sided with Favre and defended his actions -- as a fan that was my right, but as a coach and/or a GM that was a huge mistake. If I were either I would have hauled both their ***** into my office and told them that such divisive crap needed to stop ASAP and that I expected more from my team leaders.

Now go ahead and rip me with your emotion laden rants, but if you put yourself in those positions (not as a fan) -- in retrospect do you disagree???

 

[Anubis]

That's the whole point. Offer him what Randle El makes and you won't hear the *****!ng. Besides we were comparing talent only.

If this arguement was based on talent only, I'd take T.O. over either of them. However, there is much more to a player than talent. El has not *****ed about his contract, nor has be become a cancer in the locker room at any point of his career that I know of. Walker, on the other hand, has turned from one of the potentially best WRs in the league, into a whining crybaby. His attitude is exactly like T.O. in this regard, and I don't belive many of you would want to see Owens sporting the Green and Gold. So why the outcry about pleasing Walker's ego?

As to the prior question about taking El over Walker, I was actually hoping TT was going to sign El when he became available in the FA. I don't believe I need to repeat what I think TT should do about the Walker situation.

GO PACK!!!

Robert C. Hedley

 

[DePack]

If Walker and El were on the same team.....who would be the Number 1?


Walker...without a doubt!

And apparently you haven't read the T.O threads. Many people here would take him!

 

[IPBprez]

My posting and my thinking was that as an "option play" (like what the Steelers did) - it totally threw off the other Team. I wouldn't expect Randle EL to play at QB - he had that chance in Pittsburgh, and we saw the results. It wasn't any better than Tommy Maddox, after the O-Line quit on him.

As a Coach, or a GM? Hard to do, since I've never gotten near that Office in my lifetime.. maybe you have (and that's great) - just hard to picture me seein' all the caveats (like voila?) that there are to being in that Job.

But, here goes... I'd still take Randle EL over TO! Why?
Think about the headache Andy Reid's still tryin' to get over with this TO nonsense especially after they still didn't with the SuperBowl.

How long has it been now, for those guys - since 1960?
Whereupon, Vince Lombardi was quoted as saying: "That'll never happen again!"

 

[Zero2Cool]

If Walker and El were on the same team.....who would be the Number 1?


Walker...without a doubt!

And apparently you haven't read the T.O threads. Many people here would take him!

Obviously it would be Walker as number one because Randle El would be throwing the ball to him!!

 

[Bruce]

Comparing Walker to T.O. is ********!

Walker scored 9 TDs in 2003 and 12 in 2004 -- when did he show any T.O. like antics??? He didn't

When did Walker go to the sidelines and ***** at coaches and his QB like T.O.???? He didn't

Walker has consistently worked hard and had a good attitude in Camp, in practice and on the field.

In fact he frequently, (and was given **** by other WRs including some retired) for repeatedly saying that their was no #1 in Green Bay, that he, Driver and Fergy were a team and that they cheered as much for each other as for themselves.

When did T.O. ever say anything like that??? He didn't

 

[Greg C.]

Bruce, you make a very good point about the Walker/Favre thing. I was thinking of writing something like that myself, but you wrote it much better than I could've. As a fan, I LOVED it when Favre ripped on Walker last year, but since then I've had to admit that he went too far and made the situation worse. He violated an unwritten rule where players do not comment on other players' contract situations. This did not play well among other players in the league. And yes, either Thompson or Sherman could've eased the situation a bit by making some sort of nonpartisan statement, but they chose not to, which again did not help matters.

I still hate what Walker said last year, and I hate what he said the other day even more, but it could've been handled much better by the team leaders.

As for the question that started the thread: Walker is far superior to Randle El. An undersized receiver who can thrown an option pass is no substite for a big, fast receiver like Walker.

 

[Anubis]

If Walker and El were on the same team.....who would be the Number 1?

Walker...without a doubt!

And apparently you haven't read the T.O threads. Many people here would take him!

Of course Walker would be... Until he holds out mid-contact and hires Drew Rosenwhore to represent him in a strongarm attempt to extort more money out of the team... Oh wait, he has already done that. My bad.

"Many people" would take T.O.? Or would most people would take T.O.? Somehow, I don't think it is quite as many as you are implying. Why do we need a $49 million headache like Philly just got rid of? Is it worth the one good season we might get out of him?

GO PACK!!!

Robert C. Hedley

 

[Anubis]

Randle EL will never play QB in the NFL. Yes he threw a TD pass, so did Bubba Franks....

Bruce,

I wrote a reply back to your post, however for some reason it returned an error and was lost in cyberspace. Grrrr....

However, the gist of my arguement were the following:

Walker did only have one season worthy of a reworked contract. The stats you posted illustrated this. He showed marked improvement year to year, and if he continued to play like he was, he would prove himself to be one of the premier WRs in the league, deserving far more money than he is currently getting.

However, in a blatent attempt to strongarm the Packers into giving him a better contract, Walker hired Drew Rosenwhore as his agent and threatened to hold out. This did not endear him to the fans nor the Packer organization, and resulted in a game of chicken with the Team.

Brett Favre had every right to criticize Walker for his actions. He is the leader of the team and gave Walker some solid advice: shut up, play and the money will follow. Unfortunately, Walker did not heed that advice, and now blames the whole fiasco on Favre, when he in fact was the cause of all the controversy.

I really don't know why you are sticking up for Walker so much. He was on his way to becoming one of the premier WRs in the league, however it seems his ego got in the way of making that happen with the Packers organization.

GO PACK!!!

Robert C. Hedley

 

[Sef0r]

Comparing Walker to T.O. is b.s.!

Walker has consistently worked hard and had a good attitude in Camp, in practice and on the field.

How do you know that (he works HARD)? No one knows anything, there are no facts to prove this, only hear'say.

In fact he frequently, (and was given **** by other WRs including some retired) for repeatedly saying that their was no #1 in Green Bay, that he, Driver and Fergy were a team and that they cheered as much for each other as for themselves.

When did T.O. ever say anything like that??? He didn't

I think even you would agree (given his comments in the last year) that even he doesn't think like that anymore.

As a fan, I LOVED it when Favre ripped on Walker last year, but since then I've had to admit that he went too far and made the situation worse. He violated an unwritten rule where players do not comment on other players' contract situations.

Favre, like the media is entitled to his opinion. He was pressed by the media and he answered their questions about what he thought.

As for this unwritten rule (which has been written a thousand times over now) I don't believe it. People who dislike Favre are saying its unwritten, those who want to have a peice of the action are saying things, those who want to put angst in the Packers locker room are saying it. Wait a minute, why are they speaking out against Favre, isn't there an unwritten rule about this? It there was, then everyone is a hippocrit for breaking it and speaking out against Favre and to some extent, Walker.

I still hate what Walker said last year, and I hate what he said the other day even more, but it could've been handled much better by the team leaders.

If you mean team leaders like management (i.e. Ted Thompson) then it was handled very professionally. If you mean leaders (players) then apart from Favre I believe no one in the team spoke against Walker, all opting to leave it between the player and the club.

I'm mostly been browsing this site and to be honest a lot of what I've seen about Walker has been BS.

When you take away all the assumptions about how hard he works, how far along he is in his rehab, how much better he WILL be there are facts that people need to reminded of.

In the 3 years (I will not include his injury year) he has played in GB he has only really produced in one of those years. Some may argue that he also did it in 2003 where he topped the team in receiving and they are right, others could argue that it came later in the season when opponents realised the running game was near impossible to stop. At the end of the day he has only 1 excellent season out of 4, hires an agent known for getting block buster deals, holds out, comes to camp to avoid missing any payments for last season, gets injured and now demands to be traded and kills any chance of possibly returning to the team by saying he would never want to play in GB again.

When I look at the facts and his comments you have to say that he is indeed looking/sounding more and more like T.O.
Before he made it to the Pro Bowl, I listened to his interviews (during the year), humble kid....after he made it to Hawaii and had all those receivers praising him it started the inevitable change...the change that coaches, parents and teachers try to help you avoid - LETTING IT ALL GET TO YOUR HEAD.

NB - If you are going to question my spelling don't waste your time. English is my second language and you are would be straying from the subject this has now become.

 

[all about da packers]

I agree with many that say looking back now, it was a HUGE mistake for Brett to do what he did. However, I am optimistic (perhaps to the point of being foolish) that all the bridges have not been burned between Walker and the Packers.

sef0r, I disagree that Walker has been sounding more like TO. The fact is that Walker hass always, as Bruce said, refered to Ferggy/Drive/Walker being a team. No clear cut #1, rather all being able to get the job done. However, you have to feel for Walker because Ferggy got a raise, and lets admit it, Ferggy isn't in the same class as Walker. At some point, every person would get a little annoyed, and Walker decided to do something bout it. I still think the comment about rather retiring than playing for the Packers was pure emotional based and out of anger, and thus not serious. I hope this issue can be resolved.

 

[Sef0r]

I agree with many that say looking back now, it was a HUGE mistake for Brett to do what he did. However, I am optimistic (perhaps to the point of being foolish) that all the bridges have not been burned between Walker and the Packers.

sef0r, I disagree that Walker has been sounding more like TO. The fact is that Walker hass always, as Bruce said, refered to Ferggy/Drive/Walker being a team. No clear cut #1, rather all being able to get the job done. However, you have to feel for Walker because Ferggy got a raise, and lets admit it, Ferggy isn't in the same class as Walker. At some point, every person would get a little annoyed, and Walker decided to do something bout it. I still think the comment about rather retiring than playing for the Packers was pure emotional based and out of anger, and thus not serious. I hope this issue can be resolved.

Like I said before above, it doesn't look like Javon Walker of 2006 is about the team, he knows he's the No1 and wants to be paid like it.

If I remember correctly, Mike Sherman signed Ferguson to an extension cause he had like 2 years left and wanted to keep him. Javon still had 4(or 3) years left and had the breakout season after the fact and there is almost no doubt that if it was Sherman he would have gotten an extension. It wasn't Sherman, it was Thompson...even if Favre had not said anything I doubt it would have made ANY difference. I mean look at this years FA period, I don't see Favre making comments in the media which would force Thompson into actually signing someone other then Manuel or his attempt to get Pickett.

Do I feel sorry for Javon Walker, of course I do...especially if he decides to hold out the whole year. He forfiets a year of eligibility to become a UFA, he does NOT get paid. He won't get sponsorship deals as a source of income because his image at that point would be gone (not unlike T.O) and if Thompson is going to stick to his guns like I think he is. Javon will hold out, he will be let go at the end of next year and someone will take a chance on him with a 3 year contract worth $2 mil (that may be the only type of offer he gets).

Does anyone really think that Tompson is going to give in? Seriously, without wishful thinking and that packer mindset, does a man who's shown nothing but restraint in FA and player extensions give in to a WR who is on the verge of ruining his own career?

I'm not looking at this as a Packer fan but someone with a realistic outlook on this situation.

 

[Bruce]

I agree with many that say looking back now, it was a HUGE mistake for Brett to do what he did. However, I am optimistic (perhaps to the point of being foolish) that all the bridges have not been burned between Walker and the Packers.

sef0r, I disagree that Walker has been sounding more like TO. The fact is that Walker hass always, as Bruce said, refered to Ferggy/Drive/Walker being a team. No clear cut #1, rather all being able to get the job done. However, you have to feel for Walker because Ferggy got a raise, and lets admit it, Ferggy isn't in the same class as Walker. At some point, every person would get a little annoyed, and Walker decided to do something bout it. I still think the comment about rather retiring than playing for the Packers was pure emotional based and out of anger, and thus not serious. I hope this issue can be resolved.

Like I said before above, it doesn't look like Javon Walker of 2006 is about the team, he knows he's the No1 and wants to be paid like it.

If I remember correctly, Mike Sherman signed Ferguson to an extension cause he had like 2 years left and wanted to keep him. Javon still had 4(or 3) years left and had the breakout season after the fact and there is almost no doubt that if it was Sherman he would have gotten an extension. It wasn't Sherman, it was Thompson...even if Favre had not said anything I doubt it would have made ANY difference. I mean look at this years FA period, I don't see Favre making comments in the media which would force Thompson into actually signing someone other then Manuel or his attempt to get Pickett.

Do I feel sorry for Javon Walker, of course I do...especially if he decides to hold out the whole year. He forfiets a year of eligibility to become a UFA, he does NOT get paid. He won't get sponsorship deals as a source of income because his image at that point would be gone (not unlike T.O) and if Thompson is going to stick to his guns like I think he is. Javon will hold out, he will be let go at the end of next year and someone will take a chance on him with a 3 year contract worth $2 mil (that may be the only type of offer he gets).

Does anyone really think that Tompson is going to give in? Seriously, without wishful thinking and that packer mindset, does a man who's shown nothing but restraint in FA and player extensions give in to a WR who is on the verge of ruining his own career?

I'm not looking at this as a Packer fan but someone with a realistic outlook on this situation.

Ted Thompson should NOT cave in. So far (this season, last season is an entirely different story) TT has handled the Walker melt down very well -- firm, concise, clear and burning no bridges.

Walker true breakout season -- when he tore up the league -- left him with two years on his contract. That is when he approached the Packers about redoing/extending his contact. Walker made a mistake hiring RosenHOG who loves to play things out in the public eye (since it is all about him) and Brett's comments threw gas on the flame. That is when Thompson and Sherman should have acted.

It may be too late to save Walker's career in Green Bay, but trust me, there are 31 other GM's that would welcome this hard working kid onto their rosters in a heartbeat.

 

[Bruce]

How do you know that (he works HARD)? No one knows anything, there are no facts to prove this, only hear'say.

Huh??? You are kidding right? The facts are there for anyone willing to pull their head's out of their butts and look. The facts are: every single scout had it in their book on Walker. The fact are: all the coaches -- from HC to position coaches -- have frequently said he works hard year round. The fact are: the guy has improved every single season that he has played -- Perhaps you think being a World Class athlete and rising to the top of your profession is done by sitting on your ****, but the fact that reveals is you have no idea what it takes to make it to the NFL let alone to the top of the game.

In fact he frequently, (and was given **** by other WRs including some retired) for repeatedly saying that their was no #1 in Green Bay, that he, Driver and Fergy were a team and that they cheered as much for each other as for themselves.

When did T.O. ever say anything like that??? He didn't

I think even you would agree (given his comments in the last year) that even he doesn't think like that anymore.

I think this kid (who is very close to his family) feels betrayed by his QB. A QB that he loyally stood by when fans and some ignorant media members tried to scapegoat him (Walker) for Favre inexplicable tossing up of a duck in overtime in Philly. A young man who was there for Brett before, during (Javon was a HUGE part of Brett's miracle in Oakland ) and after Brett's father's death. He feels betrayed by an organization and its fans who were all to willing to turn on him, and some who cheered his injury. His family has expressed this same sense of betrayal. I am not saying that he is 100% correct in his perceptions -- but certainly someone who says that Brett Favre has a right to speak up (by the way Brett called the reporter for this interview on Walker, not the other way around) would not deny that Walker is entitled to his feelings. BTW his fellow receivers call him a GREAT teammate and Favre admitted that he spoke up and wanted Walker in because he is a GREAT receiver.

As a fan, I LOVED it when Favre ripped on Walker last year, but since then I've had to admit that he went too far and made the situation worse. He violated an unwritten rule where players do not comment on other players' contract situations.

In the 3 years (I will not include his injury year) he has played in GB he has only really produced in one of those years. Some may argue that he also did it in 2003 where he topped the team in receiving and they are right, others could argue that it came later in the season when opponents realised the running game was near impossible to stop. At the end of the day he has only 1 excellent season out of 4, hires an agent known for getting block buster deals, holds out, comes to camp to avoid missing any payments for last season, gets injured and now demands to be traded and kills any chance of possibly returning to the team by saying he would never want to play in GB again.

How many so-so receivers catch 9 TD passes in a single season??? That is how many Walker caught in 2003. No other Packer did in 2003. In fact, only 9 other wide-receivers in the NFL did that season -- and of those 9 only Moss and Holt exceeded his total by more than 1 TD. Randle El has only caught 7 in his WHOLE career. Further, his 17.6 yard per catch was far and away #1 in the NFL.

You start out demanding facts, yet you seem to want to ignore them when ever it supports your stance to do so.

NB - If you are going to question my spelling don't waste your time. English is my second language and you are would be straying from the subject this has now become.

I would never question your spelling or your English -- you do just fine and I agree that it has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

 

[4packgirl]

WOW!!! impressive, bruce! thanks once again for the insight.

 

[Sef0r]

Bruce, I wasn't demanding facts, I was telling you a few of them - you have some yourself and you've made a good point in your post above.

Some of my points were that Walker has produced in only 1 1/2 out of his 4 seasons. He would have received an extension if it was Mike Sherman last year and that TT will NOT consider signing him to an extension.

Now, if Javon and his agent were smart they would try and repair his damaged reputation with the fans (the ones that are upset with him) because lets face it, in order for him to get any money this year he must play football - and if TT is as staunch as most say he is then Javon may not get what he wants.

 

[cheesey]

Walker is coming off a MAJOR injury, and only time will tell if he EVER will regain his status. How can anyone give him a big payday, when you don't even know if he can run anymore? He had a good work ethic, and WAS good......is he still? I don't know........but if i was TT, i wouldn't break the bank before i was 100% sure he would be the player he was. I think Walker needs to play this season, PROVE that he hasn't lost it, THEN he will be in a position to demand the world.
Of course.............if Favre doesn't return, and Walker has no one to throw the ball to him, other teams won't offer him the big bucks either.

 

[porky88]

Green BAy and Philly are said to be in trade talks about Walker.

 

[all about da packers]

Green BAy and Philly are said to be in trade talks about Walker.

That is not true. Check this out: http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Here is a short exerpt:

"First, a source with knowledge of the situation tells us that it's not happening. Second, Walker is still under contract with the Packers. Before he could talk to another team, the Packers would have to give him permission to attempt to work out a trade. Typically when such permission is given, the dude's agent crows about it in order to shake as many interested parties as possible out of the bushes (or, as they say in some parts, the "booshes").

So the rumors are wrong"

So it looks as if these rumors were incorrect.

 

[porky88]

Green BAy and Philly are said to be in trade talks about Walker.

That is not true. Check this out: http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Here is a short exerpt:

"First, a source with knowledge of the situation tells us that it's not happening. Second, Walker is still under contract with the Packers. Before he could talk to another team, the Packers would have to give him permission to attempt to work out a trade. Typically when such permission is given, the dude's agent crows about it in order to shake as many interested parties as possible out of the bushes (or, as they say in some parts, the "booshes").



So the rumors are wrong"

Heard on the radio that it was indeed TT that was making the contact not Walkers agent. That was yesterday though when I heard it.

If it was TT making the contact then he obviously sees somthing he likes on Philly. If Philly made the contact to TT then they could very well explore trade talks.

With that said it's nothing but speculation.

 

[all about da packers]

Hm, well a rumor did say that the Eagles offered Hollis Thomas and a draft pick. HT is a DE, so perhaps TT thinks that Mario will be off the board by then?

 

[McMVP]

Green BAy and Philly are said to be in trade talks about Walker.

That is not true. Check this out: http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Here is a short exerpt:

"First, a source with knowledge of the situation tells us that it's not happening. Second, Walker is still under contract with the Packers. Before he could talk to another team, the Packers would have to give him permission to attempt to work out a trade. Typically when such permission is given, the dude's agent crows about it in order to shake as many interested parties as possible out of the bushes (or, as they say in some parts, the "booshes").

So the rumors are wrong"

So it looks as if these rumors were incorrect.

All that means is that there hasn't been anything agreed upon....and that the Packers don't want to hold a fire-sale for Walker. They are still listening to offers....