Javon gets his answer
- Thread starter JbShell
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Anubis
Cheesehead
McMVP said:
Except for the fact he had actually proven himself to be one of the best WR in the league who has been an asset ON THE FIELD for every team he has played for. Unfortunately, that same talent that made him one of the best WR in the league has also spawned an ego that has proven to be a cancer in the locker room of every team he has played for.
Walker had one good year out of the last four. How much do you think he would get from another team if he were released today?
GO PACK!!!
Robert C. Hedley
Anubis
Cheesehead
McMVP said:
I guess we have a difference in opinion then. I doubt his marketability is anything close to #1.
GO PACK!!!
Robert C. Hedley
warhawk
Cheesehead
Javon jumps out there way too early to start chiming about a new contract, get's hurt, won't use the organizations physicians or rehab centers.
His agent publicly announces he wants to have the deal done before THE START of the season.
Now he's pissed off because nothing has been done. What was TT supposed to do? Fly blind? He does not REALLY know where Walker's rehab is at because he chose not to go that route. He wanted to go with his own people. Fine.
But don't ***** about not getting a deal done when the season hasn't started yet and the GM has no idea where you stand physically.
This guy is either a moron or getting some real bad advice. I actually think that if his agent was the one that wanted to go the route of getting something done before the start of the season that it was not a bad path to take.
Keep the rehab going, at some point prove that your good to go, and no problem.
The threat to sit shows me that the guy is a moron. What possible good could this whole move be for him. I see no upside whatsoever.
His agent publicly announces he wants to have the deal done before THE START of the season.
Now he's pissed off because nothing has been done. What was TT supposed to do? Fly blind? He does not REALLY know where Walker's rehab is at because he chose not to go that route. He wanted to go with his own people. Fine.
But don't ***** about not getting a deal done when the season hasn't started yet and the GM has no idea where you stand physically.
This guy is either a moron or getting some real bad advice. I actually think that if his agent was the one that wanted to go the route of getting something done before the start of the season that it was not a bad path to take.
Keep the rehab going, at some point prove that your good to go, and no problem.
The threat to sit shows me that the guy is a moron. What possible good could this whole move be for him. I see no upside whatsoever.
You have got to be kidding me!
I am as disgusted with Walker's latest immature outburst as the next guy, but can we please give up this ignorant claim that Walker only had one decent season.
Randle El came into the league at the same time as Javon Walker -- both have 4 years of NFL service.
Randle El was one of the top available players and was expected to be courted by several teams, but the Redskins' offer of $31. million/ at least $11.5 million in guaranteed money had him signed before the weekend was done -- Randle El wasn't the Steelers' top receiver, he caught 35 passes for 558 yards for 1 TD last season.
You all make this bogus claim about Walker having only one good season -- so let's compare.
2002 Rookie years:
Randle El -- 47 catches -- 489 yards -- 10.8 per catch ave -- 2 TD
J. Walker -- 23 catches -- 319 yards -- 13.9 per catch ave. -- 1 TD
2003 2nd Years
Randle El -- 37 catches -- 363 yards -- 9.8 per catch ave. -- 1 TD
J. Walker -- 41 catches -- 716 yards -- 17.6 per catch ave. -- 9 TD
2004 3rd Years
Randle El -- 43 catches -- 601 yards -- 14.0 per catch ave. -- 3 TD
J. Walker -- 89 catches -- 1382 yards -- 15.6 per catch ave. - 12 TD
2005 4th years
Randle El -- 35 catches -- 558 yards -- 15.9 per catch ave. - 1 TD
J. Walker --- 4 catches --- 28 yards --- 7.0 per catch ave --- 0 TD
Career totals:
Randle El -- 64 Games -- 162 catches -- 2012 yards -- 12.4 per catch ave. -- 7 TD
J. Walker -- 48 Games -- 157 catches -- 2444 yards -- 15.6 per catch ave. - 22 TD
So despite playing in 16 fewer games Javon has essentially the same amount of catches, with 432 more yards (22% more), a higher per catch ave and more than 3 times as many TDs (312% more).
Walker also has more first down catches 106 to 95; more catches for 40+ yards 11 to 3; more catches for 20+ yards 37 to 31.
So could all of you who want to keep pretending that Walker has done nothing to think he deserves to be paid higher than the distant 3rd paid receiver on the Packers and think he is insane to believe so, keep your embarrassingly ignorant claims to yourselves. Packer fans are known to be knowledgeable -- try using real facts and real numbers once and awhile. It is painless, I promise :wink:
I am as disgusted with Walker's latest immature outburst as the next guy, but can we please give up this ignorant claim that Walker only had one decent season.
Randle El came into the league at the same time as Javon Walker -- both have 4 years of NFL service.
Randle El was one of the top available players and was expected to be courted by several teams, but the Redskins' offer of $31. million/ at least $11.5 million in guaranteed money had him signed before the weekend was done -- Randle El wasn't the Steelers' top receiver, he caught 35 passes for 558 yards for 1 TD last season.
You all make this bogus claim about Walker having only one good season -- so let's compare.
2002 Rookie years:
Randle El -- 47 catches -- 489 yards -- 10.8 per catch ave -- 2 TD
J. Walker -- 23 catches -- 319 yards -- 13.9 per catch ave. -- 1 TD
2003 2nd Years
Randle El -- 37 catches -- 363 yards -- 9.8 per catch ave. -- 1 TD
J. Walker -- 41 catches -- 716 yards -- 17.6 per catch ave. -- 9 TD
2004 3rd Years
Randle El -- 43 catches -- 601 yards -- 14.0 per catch ave. -- 3 TD
J. Walker -- 89 catches -- 1382 yards -- 15.6 per catch ave. - 12 TD
2005 4th years
Randle El -- 35 catches -- 558 yards -- 15.9 per catch ave. - 1 TD
J. Walker --- 4 catches --- 28 yards --- 7.0 per catch ave --- 0 TD
Career totals:
Randle El -- 64 Games -- 162 catches -- 2012 yards -- 12.4 per catch ave. -- 7 TD
J. Walker -- 48 Games -- 157 catches -- 2444 yards -- 15.6 per catch ave. - 22 TD
So despite playing in 16 fewer games Javon has essentially the same amount of catches, with 432 more yards (22% more), a higher per catch ave and more than 3 times as many TDs (312% more).
Walker also has more first down catches 106 to 95; more catches for 40+ yards 11 to 3; more catches for 20+ yards 37 to 31.
So could all of you who want to keep pretending that Walker has done nothing to think he deserves to be paid higher than the distant 3rd paid receiver on the Packers and think he is insane to believe so, keep your embarrassingly ignorant claims to yourselves. Packer fans are known to be knowledgeable -- try using real facts and real numbers once and awhile. It is painless, I promise :wink:
IPBprez
Cheesehead
Has Randle El been the Steelers' No. 1 Wide Receiver thru all of that hay you just threw? Almost from Day 1, Javon has been the No.1 WR - especially after Double-D got that neck sprain a couple of years back. Without Walker (sure) Favre doesn't get 399 yards against Oakland, right after his Dad passed away. That's a given - but let's be fair to Randle El - there's other guys on the Pittsburgh Team who are gonna get the ball first over him, time and time again.
Maybe you need to find a better measuring stick.
I'll give ya that Javon is good - but not nearly good enough to be actin' like he's suddenly become T.O. (toward the GM). He's also dropped a few that were make or break plays, too! He's certainly no Jerry Rice and before Antonio Freeman got that BIG contract - I'd have a hard time seein' Javon as the go-to guy, them both being out there on the field... Freeman was damn good in '95 & '96..... damn good! That contract made him lazy - and I got a feelin' it'll make this boy lazy, too! He's out there cryin' way too quick - it shows a lack of class - if he was all that... he'd be out there provin' it!
Maybe you need to find a better measuring stick.
I'll give ya that Javon is good - but not nearly good enough to be actin' like he's suddenly become T.O. (toward the GM). He's also dropped a few that were make or break plays, too! He's certainly no Jerry Rice and before Antonio Freeman got that BIG contract - I'd have a hard time seein' Javon as the go-to guy, them both being out there on the field... Freeman was damn good in '95 & '96..... damn good! That contract made him lazy - and I got a feelin' it'll make this boy lazy, too! He's out there cryin' way too quick - it shows a lack of class - if he was all that... he'd be out there provin' it!
TOPackerFan
Cheesehead
I agree with you somewhat Bruce. Walker had one poor season, had one decent season (but a good second half), one great season and one incomplete season. I do contend, however, that he had not "outperformed" his contract, at least on an average basis. He was grossly overpaid his first year, slightly overpaid his second and grossly underpaid his third (had he stayed healthy in the fourth, likely would have been grossly underpaid then too - but would have received a huge signing bonus to rectify the issue).
IMO, the Packers acted quite reasonably. This is only really an issue because Javon got hurt.
IMO, the Packers acted quite reasonably. This is only really an issue because Javon got hurt.
DePack
Cheesehead
IPBprez said:
I don't think Walker even started until last season, so he hasn't been the #1 since day one.
IPBprez said:
First off when Javon put up these numbers he had far and away the fewest drops of any WR with 30 or more catches in the NFL
J. Walker -- 89 catches -- 1382 yards -- 15.6 per catch ave. - 12 TD
Second, did you NOT see that I wrote, "I am as disgusted with Walker's latest immature outburst as the next guy, but can we please give up this ignorant claim that Walker only had one decent season"???
Third, Walker has never shown one bit of laziness -- in fact quite the opposite. He has worked hard to become an elite receiver and has worked ******* recovering from last season's injury. He has never dogged it in practice, in a game or in the offseason. But I return to saying, I think he has stepped across the line with his childish tantrum and deserved exactly the response that Thompson gave him -- which I praised T.T. for doing.
The point was not to defend Walker, rather to challenge this dellusional crap about him only having one decent season and him not being considered one of the elite receivers in the game -- he had more than one good season and he is absolutely considered on of the most talented receivers in the game.
Freeman never had half the physical talent that this kid has. He is faster, taller, just as strong and with statistically better hands. Those are facts -- and on rare occasion it would be nice to see some posters using those instead of going off on nonsensical emotional rants that have no basis in reality.
Finally, Javon Walker came to a team that had Donald Driver, Terry Glenn and Robert Ferguson -- he was not the #1 target either.
22 TD in a WR's first Three seasons in a WCO is Super Star quality. Randle El has 7 in Four full seasons
TOPackerFan said:
TO you at least are being logical.
However, you are also being unfair.
Walker was a rookie coming on to a team that had Driver as its #1 receiver and Terry Glenn as its #2 receiver and Ahman Green leading the league with catches out of the backfield. How is a Rookie in a WCO finishing 3rd in receiving among the WRs on that squad considered poor? Especially considering that he played on all of the special teams, and was the team KR/ returning kickoffs for better than 22 yards per return.
DECENT -- he finished his 2nd season with more yards than Randle El ever has in a season, had a 17.6 yard per catch average and 9 TDs -- 2 more than Randle El, of $31 million dollar fame has caught in his entire career -- and leading the Packers in all of those categories.
His 3rd season was one of the finest in NFL history -- especially when you consider he had the lowest drop rate in the league.
Brett should have stayed the Hell out of it last season, and management should have spoken up and told him so. It embarrassed and left Walker feeling betrayed. I am not railing on Favre -- I stuck up for him last season when he did it, but in retrospect it was a huge mistake.
If you were Javon and you saw Ferguson (who was drafted only the year before making 3X as much money as you -- you might feel underpaid too.
But Walker is a fool to be shooting his mouth off publically and I am pleased with Thompson's clear and firm response.
BACKIN-PACKIN
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Just trade his crybaby, limping and whining *** asap!
Anubis
Cheesehead
Bruce,
You have your stats down and make some good points. However, comparing Walker to Randel El (who is not what most would consider one of the "elite" WR in the league) is a bit of a stretch. I am not saying he is not good, but if he were one of the elite, why would he be looking at playing 3rd in the depth chart in Washington?
Third, Walker has never shown one bit of laziness -- in fact quite the opposite. He has worked hard to become an elite receiver and has worked ******* recovering from last season's injury. He has never dogged it in practice, in a game or in the offseason. But I return to saying, I think he has stepped across the line with his childish tantrum and deserved exactly the response that Thompson gave him -- which I praised T.T. for doing.
Walker had an awesome season in 2004. However, following that season he did not "work hard to become an elite receiver", as you incorrectly stated above. He failed to report to minicamp, and threatened to hold out from all team activities (including training camp) unless he was granted a reworked contract. Only after facing being benched for the season sans pay, did he finally decide to show up for camp.
Brett should have stayed the Hell out of it last season, and management should have spoken up and told him so. It embarrassed and left Walker feeling betrayed. I am not railing on Favre -- I stuck up for him last season when he did it, but in retrospect it was a huge mistake.
Brett had every right to say what he did. Walker was three years into his contract, and to that end only had ONE YEAR worthy of asking more money. You can post all the stats you want... A 391 yrd season and a 716 yrd season do not make you a superstar, however they do go towards making more money when your current contract expires. There is no doubt in my mind that TT and the Packers organization would have opened the purse strings once Walker's current contract expired, especially considering the improvement year over year. However, Walker got greedy and had a hissy fit. Now he is looking at potential retirement at KFC for all his woes.
As it stands now, Walker's value is unknown. This is because "Little T.O." has decided not to let the Pack be part of he surgery, recovery or rehabilitation. As such, he is a huge unknown. He will not get a new contract, nor can he expect any team to give him the kind of bread he is looking for. Randel El, on the other hand, is coming off winning a Super Bowl, and is not rehabilitating from serious injury. Perhaps if Walker had of kept his big mouth shut in the first place, he would not find himself in the situation he is facing at this point in time.
Don't expect me to shed any tears for him.
GO PACK!!!
Robert C. Hedley
You have your stats down and make some good points. However, comparing Walker to Randel El (who is not what most would consider one of the "elite" WR in the league) is a bit of a stretch. I am not saying he is not good, but if he were one of the elite, why would he be looking at playing 3rd in the depth chart in Washington?
Third, Walker has never shown one bit of laziness -- in fact quite the opposite. He has worked hard to become an elite receiver and has worked ******* recovering from last season's injury. He has never dogged it in practice, in a game or in the offseason. But I return to saying, I think he has stepped across the line with his childish tantrum and deserved exactly the response that Thompson gave him -- which I praised T.T. for doing.
Walker had an awesome season in 2004. However, following that season he did not "work hard to become an elite receiver", as you incorrectly stated above. He failed to report to minicamp, and threatened to hold out from all team activities (including training camp) unless he was granted a reworked contract. Only after facing being benched for the season sans pay, did he finally decide to show up for camp.
Brett should have stayed the Hell out of it last season, and management should have spoken up and told him so. It embarrassed and left Walker feeling betrayed. I am not railing on Favre -- I stuck up for him last season when he did it, but in retrospect it was a huge mistake.
Brett had every right to say what he did. Walker was three years into his contract, and to that end only had ONE YEAR worthy of asking more money. You can post all the stats you want... A 391 yrd season and a 716 yrd season do not make you a superstar, however they do go towards making more money when your current contract expires. There is no doubt in my mind that TT and the Packers organization would have opened the purse strings once Walker's current contract expired, especially considering the improvement year over year. However, Walker got greedy and had a hissy fit. Now he is looking at potential retirement at KFC for all his woes.
As it stands now, Walker's value is unknown. This is because "Little T.O." has decided not to let the Pack be part of he surgery, recovery or rehabilitation. As such, he is a huge unknown. He will not get a new contract, nor can he expect any team to give him the kind of bread he is looking for. Randel El, on the other hand, is coming off winning a Super Bowl, and is not rehabilitating from serious injury. Perhaps if Walker had of kept his big mouth shut in the first place, he would not find himself in the situation he is facing at this point in time.
Don't expect me to shed any tears for him.
GO PACK!!!
Robert C. Hedley
IPBprez
Cheesehead
Dang - I may not have worded it right - but Anubis sure did.
He's right - Randle EL is coming off winning a SuperBowl - Javon only wishes he could get there - but has no worthy guidance to do so.
Hell, I think we all have a point, in each of our posts....
Bruce - you blew right past my point about Donald Driver gettin' hurt -which was very early in the 2004 Season - correct? Anubis is right, you left out how he was Drew Rosenhaus' baby all of last offseason, too!
Oh don't get me wrong, I like the diatribe- but, it's not a putdown war, either - that's high school.
Personally, I think we got bigger troubles right now - current articles point out that we may NOT get our chance at Mario Williams after all - that depends on where several FA QB's are headed as we speak. And, Majik Man has a point - Favre really shouldn't come back if it's takin' this long to decide one way or the other - which leaves ALL wideouts with an issue on how well any ball might get thrown to any of them.
Javon can walk - he's just another Mike McKenzie to me - and what's more - we don't have the same Coaching Staff like Mikey did.
With Brett - it'd just be a shame that his last year (one actual bad year) is all it took to make him quit - and it will get wrote up that way by some Green Bay hater - bet on it.
He's right - Randle EL is coming off winning a SuperBowl - Javon only wishes he could get there - but has no worthy guidance to do so.
Hell, I think we all have a point, in each of our posts....
Bruce - you blew right past my point about Donald Driver gettin' hurt -which was very early in the 2004 Season - correct? Anubis is right, you left out how he was Drew Rosenhaus' baby all of last offseason, too!
Oh don't get me wrong, I like the diatribe- but, it's not a putdown war, either - that's high school.
Personally, I think we got bigger troubles right now - current articles point out that we may NOT get our chance at Mario Williams after all - that depends on where several FA QB's are headed as we speak. And, Majik Man has a point - Favre really shouldn't come back if it's takin' this long to decide one way or the other - which leaves ALL wideouts with an issue on how well any ball might get thrown to any of them.
Javon can walk - he's just another Mike McKenzie to me - and what's more - we don't have the same Coaching Staff like Mikey did.
With Brett - it'd just be a shame that his last year (one actual bad year) is all it took to make him quit - and it will get wrote up that way by some Green Bay hater - bet on it.
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or some Favre hater...
The Pack has been on the slide for a "few years" now...under Sherman's watchful "Reign of Error"....
The Pack has been on the slide for a "few years" now...under Sherman's watchful "Reign of Error"....
DePack
Cheesehead
C'mon guys.....the meat of Bruce's argument is that Walker is worth more than Randle El. Is there anyone on the planet that would not agree with that?
Don't get lost in the details for the sake of arguing. Bruce is right. Plain and simple!
Don't get lost in the details for the sake of arguing. Bruce is right. Plain and simple!
Zero2Cool
I own a website
DePack said:
I agree Walker is worth more than El.
TOPackerFan
Cheesehead
I don't know that I'm being unfair. Walker had a pretty bad case of the drops in his first year and really didn't do much, especially for a first round pick. In that first season, Terry Glenn was supposed to be the #1 guy if my memory serves me, but he also was oft injured and did little. It was a 7th round pick from Alcorn state who stepped up and had a great year. Walker did nothing until the playoff loss vs. Atlanta where he was probably the best guy on the field.
Had Walker stayed healthy, he would have received a monster deal last season which would have dwarfed the one Randle El signed this offseason. The Walker of the 2004 season is clearly a better player than Randle El. Unfortunately for Walker he got hurt (which happens in football) and now no one really knows how good he is. I would probably bet that he'll come back and still be better than Randle El, but if I'm TT, I don't know if I give him a bunch of money based on probably. I'd want to see for sure how good he still is before I gave him a contract which would be with the Packers for years to come.
Had Walker stayed healthy, he would have received a monster deal last season which would have dwarfed the one Randle El signed this offseason. The Walker of the 2004 season is clearly a better player than Randle El. Unfortunately for Walker he got hurt (which happens in football) and now no one really knows how good he is. I would probably bet that he'll come back and still be better than Randle El, but if I'm TT, I don't know if I give him a bunch of money based on probably. I'd want to see for sure how good he still is before I gave him a contract which would be with the Packers for years to come.
DePack
Cheesehead
TO...I hear ya....but how long does that take? A full season? Maybe two?
I guess the question you have to ask yourself is would I trade Walker for Randle El straight up if the contract thing was equal. I certainly would not. Even with Walk coming off an injury.
I guess the question you have to ask yourself is would I trade Walker for Randle El straight up if the contract thing was equal. I certainly would not. Even with Walk coming off an injury.
TOPackerFan
Cheesehead
I think it might take a month to figure that out. I bet last season if Walker had stayed healthy, Drew and TT would have really started talking just after the Saints game and an extension would have been completed by the end of October. Now, I'd want to see how JW looks in training camp and the pre-season, and if, like I'd expect, all goes well, I'd try to get the extension done before week 1 or 2. I'd also sit JW down and tell him this was my plan. I may be a youngster, but I've learned that being honest with people who work for you is the best policy.
Your second statement is also a fair point DePack and I probably wouldn't also make that trade, but Walker has some pretty large red flags associated with him. Doing anything with him is pretty risky (though TT does get the big bucks to make those decisions and to make sure they're the right ones).
Your second statement is also a fair point DePack and I probably wouldn't also make that trade, but Walker has some pretty large red flags associated with him. Doing anything with him is pretty risky (though TT does get the big bucks to make those decisions and to make sure they're the right ones).
warhawk
Cheesehead
Since a comparison with Randle-El has been made let's continue.
1)I don't remember him cryin' or moanin' about his contract one or two years out.
2) I don't remember him threatening the organization to sit last year rather than play for them without a new contract.
3)The Redskins offered him $31 million in FA.
4) Javon sits in no man's land with a questionable rep and no trump card.
Geez. I wonder which guy is in a better place today?
All anyone is really saying here is SHUTUP AND PLAY. The rest of it will take care of itself one way or the other.
1)I don't remember him cryin' or moanin' about his contract one or two years out.
2) I don't remember him threatening the organization to sit last year rather than play for them without a new contract.
3)The Redskins offered him $31 million in FA.
4) Javon sits in no man's land with a questionable rep and no trump card.
Geez. I wonder which guy is in a better place today?
All anyone is really saying here is SHUTUP AND PLAY. The rest of it will take care of itself one way or the other.
HitzlikeCecil26
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Maybe walker is trying to hide something about his rehab?
If he get out now and is allowed to re waork his contract without proving his worth, this might be athe only way he can get paid?
Walkers also knowes that this is a young team that will not have Favre around much longer if at all.
He is one of the few offensive pro bowlers and he has the most up side of all of them
Mr. Walker has to ask him self if he is ready to be the leader of this young team coming offa 4 and 12 season
Personly i just don't think he is ready for this, this is something that he is not ready to handle
Probably a big reason why he never made it as a baseball player
If he get out now and is allowed to re waork his contract without proving his worth, this might be athe only way he can get paid?
Walkers also knowes that this is a young team that will not have Favre around much longer if at all.
He is one of the few offensive pro bowlers and he has the most up side of all of them
Mr. Walker has to ask him self if he is ready to be the leader of this young team coming offa 4 and 12 season
Personly i just don't think he is ready for this, this is something that he is not ready to handle
Probably a big reason why he never made it as a baseball player
DePack
Cheesehead
warhawk said:
That's the whole point. Offer him what Randle El makes and you won't hear the *****ing. Besides we were comparing talent only.
DePack
Cheesehead
TOPackerFan said:
Yea...you're right. And he certainly didn't help his cause by rehabbing away from Green Bay. Kind of hard to tell how healthy he is if he's never around.
