Jared Abbrederis

[Un4GivN]

Yards per catch are pretty low. I'd expect that from a RB.

Well part of playing good competition is not allowing the deep ball... Just for the sake of comparing. Against USC in 2013 Jared went 5 for 30 and 0 TDs. What's the YPC there?

It's just not fair to compare the two... Overall Adams had almost twice as many TD (38 to 23) in 2 years as Jared had in 4. Adams had as many receiving yards (3031 to 3140), more catches (233 to 202).

Given the same career you could be looking at 4 times as many touchdowns. 2 times as many yards and catches. They just aren't even close. As a Freshman Adams had 102 catches for 1312 yards and 14 TD. Insane numbers. Just not sure I agree with the he "Sucked" against good competition. Was he limited sure. But everyone in the world knew who was getting the ball when they played Fresno at that time. But yet they couldn't completely shut him down. Do you really think anyone game planed for Abbrederis? Or was his production on deep balls a result of the teams planning for the Badgers run game. 9 people in the box.

I will note this! This does not mean he is the better NFL receiver. Just saying comparing their college careers is unfair to both of them. Also I don't know how Adams was used in that offense. Never bothered to watch Fresno State.

I will say this, Adams does lack deep speed and quickness in cuts which is bad combination in the NFL. I just don't feel Abbrederis is a savior. Nor do I feel he is more than depth on the chart from what I have seen so far. I hope I'm wrong. Truly I do, it would be a great story. But just not IMO.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Just wondering where did you get the stats about Adams sucking vs good competition? Just looking in the two years he played he really didn't play anyone great but those that he did. Rutgers he went 14 for 148 2TD. And against Oregon went 12 catches for 92 as a Freshman in his second game. And he played USC went 9 for 74 and TD. None of the games I would really say he "sucked".

Those are the toughest competition that I could find, granted it isn't Alabama... But Fresno State isn't Auburn either.

Edit: Don't get me wrong Adams has been sucking the big one lately. This is an endorsement for how he is currently playing. Needs to get his crap together. BUT i don't think comparing their college careers is fair. Different division, different offenses, different stats. If we are going to be honest, Adams had a much more impressive college career (granted against worse compeition and in a different offense) Adams stats are near equal or greater in 2 years to what Abbrederis did in 4.

So I think comparing them is unfair at the college level.

Maybe I was too harsh by saying he sucked against good competition, but the stats of a Mountain West player in a pass-heavy scheme with very talented QB are a representation of the weak competition as much as the ability of him as a player. Plus, those yards per catch are poor against those teams. That has absolutely translated to the NFL, as his adjusted yards per attempt last year were the worst on the team, WR or RB. No telling how bad they are this year.

Abbrederis was in a run first offense, and dominated a very good CB on a good team. And he had to face solid competition much more often and his team passed much less than Fresno State, not to mention they didn't have Derek Carr.

And Janis was a standout WR in college against bad competition as well.

 

[Un4GivN]

Maybe I was too harsh by saying he sucked against good competition, but the stats of a Mountain West player in a pass-heavy scheme with very talented QB are a representation of the weak competition as much as the ability of him as a player. Plus, those yards per catch are poor against those teams. That has absolutely translated to the NFL, as his adjusted yards per attempt last year were the worst on the team, WR or RB. No telling how bad they are this year.

Abbrederis was in a run first offense, and dominated a very good CB on a good team. And Janis was a standout WR in college against bad competition as well.

I don't disagree with anything you said besides the fact of even comparing their college careers. They are completely different beast.

Janis shouldn't even be in the discussion especially college stats... D2. Straight line speed but needs to polish just about everything else.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I don't disagree with anything you said besides the fact of even comparing their college careers. They are completely different beast.

Janis shouldn't even be in the discussion especially college stats... D2. Straight line speed but needs to polish just about everything else.

I don't disagree...He was very productive and obviously could catch a ball. I would be very happy if he would start showing that again. But then again, would he have had those stats at Wisconsin? Unlikely. Better competition, completely different system. So there is more to look at than their overall stats. Both teams were ill-equipped to compete with USC, so I shouldn't have brought that into the equation.

My disappointment has come from Adams not being what he should be, as opposed to not being something he's not-a deep threat. He was scouted as a physical receiver with great jump ball skills and reliable hands, and he hasn't shown any of these things on the field. Anyway, sorry for arguing

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't believe so? I'm at work now, but I have the game recorded at home and can take a look. But right before the lateral play that resulted in the facemask wasn't there a throw down the right sideline to Abbrederis? One which the ball came up short and landed near the knees of the Isa Abdul-Quddus while he continued to run up the field?

It's true there was a deep pass targeting Abbrederis just before the lateral play but there was absolutely no chance he makes a play on it. Janis was he the one saying he didn't see the ball or didn't know Rodgers was throwing his way early in the game.

 

[TJV]

At this point IMO there's limited value in discussing the college careers of the WRs, but regarding Abbrederis: Obviously teams concentrated on stopping the Badgers' running game but for the last two years of his college career, he was the "only" WR defenses needed to pay attention to.

 

[Un4GivN]

It's true there was a deep pass targeting Abbrederis just before the lateral play but there was absolutely no chance he makes a play on it. Janis was he the one saying he didn't see the ball or didn't know Rodgers was throwing his way early in the game.

Ahh, could definitely be... Is the Abberderis pass the one that nearly hit the defender in the knees?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ahh, could definitely be... Is the Abberderis pass the one that nearly hit the defender in the knees?

The pass was way short for Abbrederis to catch it. The Packers vehemently complained about not getting a PI call on the play.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is the Pass I think you are discussing? You be the judge if he could have caught it, or was interfered with.

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[Mondio]

I love that it was basically the same situation as in the first half and the explanations were completely different because one was flagged and the other not. As soon as Abby slowed, the defender put his arm across his neck and plowed into him. Yes he got his head turned around, and yes he plowed into him.

I'm actually ok with the non-call, I think those plays are cheap. If you want that call, throw a better ball. I loathe the throw it up and let WR stop running to get an interference call. I've seen so many go against us over the years and other teams use it as part of their offensive passing attack, but I hate. I just think it's funny they call it one way with an explanation and then later, same thing, different call, different explanation. These former refs on tv should get real jobs

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The other part of the "no call" IMO is the period of time (quarter, clock, score) that the game is in. I'm not saying they would have thrown a flag had it happened the same way in the 3rd quarter, but I'm guessing they would have been more likely to call it PI when the call doesn't seem to have as much of a game deciding impact to it.

If you ever watch hockey, the old adage is the refs eat their whistles in the last few minutes or during overtime. I don't see that being much different at times in the NFL.

 

[Un4GivN]

The pass was way short for Abbrederis to catch it. The Packers vehemently complained about not getting a PI call on the play.

Yeah ok that is the one then...

This is the Pass I think you are discussing? You be the judge if he could have caught it, or was interfered with.

I'm always on the defensive side so I say let it play... as long as it is consistent.

BUT here is my point Abberderis doesn't catch that ball if no one is covering him. He doesn't recognize until too late that the ball is short. Whether or not the guy is in the way for the last step is irrelevant as it would land at his feet anyways.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

BUT here is my point Abberderis doesn't catch that ball if no one is covering him. He doesn't recognize until too late that the ball is short. Whether or not the guy is in the way for the last step is irrelevant as it would land at his feet anyways.

Look at the slow motion reply of the play, I disagree with you. Abby does see that the ball is under thrown and as he puts on the breaks and tries to get back, he is run into by the defender and pushed well off the place the ball landed. No defender, he has a chance to adjust and make the catch.

In case you want to see the play blown up larger: remove my * and view it on youtube.

* NcDcYfVmqEw

 

[Deleted member 6794]

BUT here is my point Abberderis doesn't catch that ball if no one is covering him. He doesn't recognize until too late that the ball is short. Whether or not the guy is in the way for the last step is irrelevant as it would land at his feet anyways.

I'm pretty convinced Abbrederis would have caught the ball without Abdul-Quddus in his face. That one is on Rodgers though for underthrowing the ball.

 

[TJV]

Watching that play again, how any could criticize Abbrederis is beyond me. There was clearly contact before the ball arrived. He did slow down and there's no way to know if he doesn't catch the ball except for the DB because the DB forced him away from the ball both before and as the ball arrived.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Had Janis been on the other end of that pass, he never would have gotten interfered with, since he would have just kept running, not knowing where the ball was. Interception, game over.

 

[Un4GivN]

Watching that play again, how any could criticize Abbrederis is beyond me. There was clearly contact before the ball arrived. He did slow down and there's no way to know if he doesn't catch the ball except for the DB because the DB forced him away from the ball both before and as the ball arrived.

When did he slow down is my point? Watch it without slow motion..... full speed. 10 yards I believe it is (And that is being really generous! I think its closer to 7, at 10 yards there is still quite some distance between him and the defender since he didn't hit the brakes yet). And from the best I can tell of the CBS replays he is staring at the ball the whole time. So whats the excuse?

So lets break this down. on a 55 yard pass that you know is coming to you, it took him till the last 30 feet to know the ball was short. My 5 year old can re-act faster than that to a football i throw him.

Have you ever played baseball? Center field they say you have 2 tenths of second from the time the ball is hit to know where it lands. Or you will miss more than you catch.

You see one thing, I see something else. I can tell you what, if you wait till the last 7 yards to react to every deep pass that is throw your way... You're going to miss a great deal of them.

This is not to take culpability away from rodgers, the pass was short... I'm not questioning that at all.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

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I enjoy watching how stupid he makes the defender look here.

 

[Un4GivN]

Note I will say I hate people who disagree without someone and don't say anything. And funny enough, out of all my post that was probably the most factual one lol.

Everything I stated is on the video... You can see when he re-acted, how long the pass was, when he was looking for the pass. The baseball thing is proven "first step" technique that they use to recruit.

But if it makes you feel better.

It will be a hot debate until he either makes it or doesn't... We will have to see how it turns out in the end. But as of right now I am not all that impressed.

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I enjoy watching how stupid he makes the defender look here.

Lmao I did to! That was an amazing game, I was actually out drinking for that one.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You see one thing, I see something else. I can tell you what, if you wait till the last 7 yards to react to every deep pass that is throw your way... You're going to miss a great deal of them.

I see a receiver running full speed down the field, as he turns to spot the ball, he recognizes that it is under thrown and puts on the breaks in an attempt to but his body in a better position to make the catch. Had it not been for the defender driving him further down the field, he would have been in a position to possibly catch an under thrown ball. Not sure where you see fault in Abby on this? Watch where the ball lands and where Abby was before being run into by the defender. BTW, the ball really wasn't that far under thrown, but it did require him to stop, which he wasn't able to do, due to the defender. Obviously a throw out in front of him, he keeps running, makes the catch, TD.

Also, I get your baseball analogy but don't understand how it applies. There is a big difference between the need of your timing in spotting a baseball coming off of a bat and reacting to multiple # of places that the ball could be traveling to (random, not predetermined) and a football receiver running a predetermined route, that the QB is actually knowingly throwing the ball to that predetermined spot. How many times have you seen a receiver literally get his head around and the ball is right there to catch? This is what practice and route running is for, timing between QB and receiver. You can't do that in baseball per se.

 

[TJV]

When did he slow down is my point? Watch it without slow motion..... full speed.

He slowed down in time to catch the ball. You agree the DB contacted and pushed him away from the ball with his body don't you? (I think that's obvious, but just checking.) You also posted it hit the knees of the DB. Without the momentum created by the push by the DB who clearly pushed him with his body for about two full steps before the ball arrived, the ball would have likely been above Abby's knees. It looks to me like you're stretching a bit to back up your initial post in which you said he avoided contact and later you confused Abby with Janis. To me it’s clear the reply shows something different. Having said that I don’t think Abby is the “savior” of the WR corp and I don’t think anyone else posted he was. (Beat me to it, Packerbrat.)

 

[Mondio]

Playing Center field and playing NFL WR are not all that similar other than you're trying to catch something called a ball. Reacting to a ball hit is different in a lot of ways. I was a pretty good center fielder, not so much a WR, so I'm only talking out of one side of my butt not the other. WR are running to a spot a ball is supposed to be delivered to. OF are reacting a much faster moving object they're often running towards, not away from. Given a 90 MPH pitch, I'm sending that out at about 100MPH's. Misjudge the millisecond it comes off the bat and that pretty much dictates if you're misplaying the ball or not. It's not as crucial in catching a downfield pass in football, but other things are.

He did not outrun that pass by a lot, and I think he timed his stop pretty well with the underthrown ball and if the defender didn't plow into him and carry him further down field I'd be interested to see if he had enough body control to make the catch. Slow down much before hand and now you're fighting to get position and as likely to get flagged, he was smart to not react till the end, give the defender no time to react and with how they usually call it, it should have been flagged. Like any other pass, you don't put your hands up till you're snatching the ball out of the air, track the ball without giving it away to the defender you're watching the ball come in. Don't telegraph when it's going to arrive.

If it wasn't underthrown it would have been much better as he had beaten his man, but given that these 2 haven't had a lot of time on the field together, it's not that unexpected

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Playing Center field and playing NFL WR are not all that similar other than you're trying to catch something called a ball. Reacting to a ball hit is different in a lot of ways. I was a pretty good center fielder, not so much a WR, so I'm only talking out of one side of my butt not the other. WR are running to a spot a ball is supposed to be delivered to. OF are reacting a much faster moving object they're often running towards, not away from. Given a 90 MPH pitch, I'm sending that out at about 100MPH's. Misjudge the millisecond it comes off the bat and that pretty much dictates if you're misplaying the ball or not. It's not as crucial in catching a downfield pass in football, but other things are.

He did not outrun that pass by a lot, and I think he timed his stop pretty well with the underthrown ball and if the defender didn't plow into him and carry him further down field I'd be interested to see if he had enough body control to make the catch. Slow down much before hand and now you're fighting to get position and as likely to get flagged, he was smart to not react till the end, give the defender no time to react and with how they usually call it, it should have been flagged. Like any other pass, you don't put your hands up till you're snatching the ball out of the air, track the ball without giving it away to the defender you're watching the ball come in. Don't telegraph when it's going to arrive.

If it wasn't underthrown it would have been much better as he had beaten his man, but given that these 2 haven't had a lot of time on the field together, it's not that unexpected

The lack of chemistry due to lack of playing time is why the Janis throw probably never works. I wish we had more clever play calling.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Note I will say I hate people who disagree without someone and don't say anything. And funny enough, out of all my post that was probably the most factual one lol.

I've repeatedly posted my opinion about it, doesn't make any sense to do it further as you don't seem to be willing to change your mind although it's pretty obvious to everyone else you're wrong about it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Instinctively knowing where that ball is suppose to end up, running the route to get you to that point and putting your body in a position to make the catch, may be where Abby and Janis differ on the field as well as the depth chart.