Jaire Alexander 2022...Extension Inevitable?

[Pokerbrat2000]

It must also be said that anything can happen between now and next off season.

Alexander value could go up or down.

He looks expensive now but who knows next spring.

At $13.2 M (5th year salary) he looks cheap. Ward was given roughly $20M/year. So lets say that the Packers signed Jaire today to a similar deal for 4 years. The cost would be $80M over 4 years. However, they decide to wait and see if they actually need him past this season, which alone is very valuable in my opinion. Since maybe his shoulder isn't holding up, he sustains another injury, suddenly you have the Bakhtiari situation. Or, as discussed before, you suddenly have 4 CB's on the team, all playing at an above average level.

So next offseason, you decide to keep him. You work out a deal for say $22M/year, price of poker went up on CB's. So know you have Jaire for 4 more years at $88M. In reality, you had him for 5 years for $101M or just about what you would have paid this year.

I have often wondered when an existing contract is reworked, with an increase in pay, does the team get to discount it for that cheaper year that by contract, the player would have been obligated. Probably varies and is possibly part of the negotiations.

 

[OldSchool101]

Are you discussing Adams again? Perhaps you need to go to a meeting.

I just got back.
2 beatings meetings in 1 day is too much for me to handle

no one really listens to me anyway. It might as well be a Daycare

 

[McKnowledge]

However, they decide to wait and see if they actually need him past this season, which alone is very valuable in my opinion.

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Since maybe his shoulder isn't holding up, he sustains another injury, suddenly you have the Bakhtiari situation.

Exactly. I'm all over the place with the draft. I see so many good players and not enough draft picks.

Example: If GB gets Waller with the 59th pick, do you trade back using the 22nd or 28th pick? Do you trade up using both 1st rounders and securing an instant contributor?

If GB can come away with a legitimate LT/RT and CB for the future, then GB can keep the machine going.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers being in dead cap hell this offseason not only created a situation where they had to push even more money out, but Gute wasn't really able to address needs in Free Agency like he has in the past. So yes, he needs to hit on some of his choices. Hate to say it, but his track record so far is not very good once he gets out of the second round. We can only hope a few from the last draft and this draft play well. Yet another reason they might think a bit harder on Jaire, more money freed up for free agency in 2023. $20M each year can buy you a decent player or 2.

 

[weeds]

I just got back.
2 beatings meetings in 1 day is too much for me to handle

no one really listens to me anyway. It might as well be a Daycare

Bwahahaha... I had 3 "canings" today and one was a board meeting. Self-flaggelation is a thing now, dontchaknow.

 

[tynimiller]

The Packers being in dead cap hell this offseason not only created a situation where they had to push even more money out, but Gute wasn't really able to address needs in Free Agency like he has in the past. So yes, he needs to hit on some of his choices. Hate to say it, but his track record so far is not very good once he gets out of the second round. We can only hope a few from the last draft and this draft play well. Yet another reason they might think a bit harder on Jaire, more money freed up for free agency in 2023. $20M each year can buy you a decent player or 2.

Wasn't able to address needs?

We were able to retain and sign our All Pro level ILB that was set to leave and tender our other starting ILB (albeit a small tender)

We were able to retain and sign our best cornerback from last season when our experienced CBs with true experience were a guy who missed due to injury most of 2021 and a rookie in 2021...that's it.

We were able to sign a DL that is a starter on most teams since we lost two contributing DL from previous year and had no depth.

We were able to sign a WR to a room that needs more pieces still - but a veteran that is quite productive when in still (when healthy) was possible this off season as well.

We were able to extend a starting OLB when we saw another (Z) leave - this was a crucial item to make happen.

We were also able to resign Tonyan.

I concur a lot of cap issues have been self created and ignorantly so honestly...but we have been able to do a lot for our needs and depth holes that used to be there that are not now.

 

[sschind]

Wasn't able to address needs?

We were able to retain and sign our All Pro level ILB that was set to leave and tender our other starting ILB (albeit a small tender)

We were able to retain and sign our best cornerback from last season when our experienced CBs with true experience were a guy who missed due to injury most of 2021 and a rookie in 2021...that's it.

We were able to sign a DL that is a starter on most teams since we lost two contributing DL from previous year and had no depth.

We were able to sign a WR to a room that needs more pieces still - but a veteran that is quite productive when in still (when healthy) was possible this off season as well.

We were able to extend a starting OLB when we saw another (Z) leave - this was a crucial item to make happen.

We were also able to resign Tonyan.

I concur a lot of cap issues have been self created and ignorantly so honestly...but we have been able to do a lot for our needs and depth holes that used to be there that are not now.

He said address needs in free agency. Poker doesn't consider keeping your own guys free agency. Yes the DL and WR were free agents but that's only 2 of the six so according to him Gute did squat in FA

 

[tynimiller]

He said address needs in free agency. Poker doesn't consider keeping your own guys free agency. Yes the DL and WR were free agents but that's only 2 of the six so according to him Gute did squat in FA

Actually the timing of the contracts I believe were after the new year starting for Rasul and maybe Campbell as well, no? Either way to me it doesn't matter spending the money before the year's end prior to your guys hitting free agency or spending the money after the new year's start to retain your guys is still spending money the same exact way on the books.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I concur a lot of cap issues have been self created and ignorantly so honestly...but we have been able to do a lot for our needs and depth holes that used to be there that are not now.

I was going to go back and add "but sign a few of our own", but when I talk about "Free agents", I don't consider resigning your own as doing that. While I like the signing of both Watkins and Reed, at this point they are about all Gute could afford.

If you look at this team and ask "Did they improve the roster over the one they had last season?" I would say "no", but they were able to retain more players than I thought they would.

 

[Schultz]

The Packers being in dead cap hell this offseason not only created a situation where they had to push even more money out, but Gute wasn't really able to address needs in Free Agency like he has in the past. So yes, he needs to hit on some of his choices. Hate to say it, but his track record so far is not very good once he gets out of the second round. We can only hope a few from the last draft and this draft play well. Yet another reason they might think a bit harder on Jaire, more money freed up for free agency in 2023. $20M each year can buy you a decent player or 2.

Not so fast my friend. ESPN had an article last week ranking each teams overall drafts from 2012 to 2021. The Packers finished 5th overall. They then broke it down and ranked teams by each day. GB was the #1 team on day 3.

 

[Schultz]

Wasn't able to address needs?

We were able to retain and sign our All Pro level ILB that was set to leave and tender our other starting ILB (albeit a small tender)

We were able to retain and sign our best cornerback from last season when our experienced CBs with true experience were a guy who missed due to injury most of 2021 and a rookie in 2021...that's it.

We were able to sign a DL that is a starter on most teams since we lost two contributing DL from previous year and had no depth.

We were able to sign a WR to a room that needs more pieces still - but a veteran that is quite productive when in still (when healthy) was possible this off season as well.

We were able to extend a starting OLB when we saw another (Z) leave - this was a crucial item to make happen.

We were also able to resign Tonyan.

I concur a lot of cap issues have been self created and ignorantly so honestly...but we have been able to do a lot for our needs and depth holes that used to be there that are not now.

The only thing I disagree with is your last sentence. All of those moves were basically to fill starting holes. As of this posting the depth is awful.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not so fast my friend. ESPN had an article last week ranking each teams overall drafts from 2012 to 2021. The Packers finished 5th overall. They then broke it down and ranked teams by each day. GB was the #1 team on day 3.

I was referring to Gute's track record of drafting since he became GM in 2018. Jaire is the only player still on the team. He and MVS were the only 2 out of the 11 drafted that amounted to anything. I'd say overall it was a very unsuccessful draft. The 2019 draft class, outside of rounds 1 and 2 also sucked.

 

[tynimiller]

The only thing I disagree with is your last sentence. All of those moves were basically to fill starting holes. As of this posting the depth is awful.

Most I agree but even the Oakland corner was depth, the tenders placed depth….even Tonyan to a smaller way but if healthy he might be a starter for sure as we all know.

 

[tynimiller]

I was going to go back and add "but sign a few of our own", but when I talk about "Free agents", I don't consider resigning your own as doing that. While I like the signing of both Watkins and Reed, at this point they are about all Gute could afford.

If you look at this team and ask "Did they improve the roster over the one they had last season?" I would say "no", but they were able to retain more players than I thought they would.

Again the timing of Rasul and Campbell of actually signing may be a free agent move. It is still the same IMO as it is money spent for holes. Signing a different ILB doesn’t mean anything different than signing Campbell

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's quite a small box you've put yourself in. I have more faith than you I guess that LaFleur is capable of adapting his offense to effectively utilize offensive weapons.
Might as well also state that I apparently have less faith in rookies than most here. They have a terrible tendency to make dumb, rookie mistakes imo.

The Packers will need a combination of receivers picking up the slack with Adams not being around anymore no matter what. Taking a look at the current depth chart I have more faith in a first round rookie to put up decent numbers than any other WR currently on the roster.

Yet, how many teams have 3 very good, above average CB's? My point once again is that if after the season, the Packers find themselves with 3 above average CB's, not including Jaire, I would say trade him for some very decent draft capital and use the salary savings ($20+ M/year) on other players.

As I've mentioned repeatedly I'm not in favor of trading young blue-chip players. That's not a recipe for success.

His first deal is everything!!!

The whole point, the intent, the motivation for these players is money.

What comes from that money depends on the man, but the players want to get paid.

Ascending players with impressive resumes like Alexander WILL want get top dollar.

The prestige of his position, the requirements, and his age will dictate that he gets all he can.

I understand that Alexander will ask to be paid at market value but it doesn't matter if it's his first, second or third big contract.

I'll take 3 above average CBs on manageable deals than 1 elite guy and scrubs everyday.

It's possible to have an elite player at a position and to surround him with above average players as well.

Also, Alexander isn't the only young defensive player seeing the big payday.

Gary is up next, and I wouldn't be surprised if Clark starts barking for an extension.

Use this deep draft and get good cheaper defensive guys ready to contribute and develope.

Don't worry, according to some here it's best to trade away Gary and Clark instead of signing them to big contracts as well.

If their price is too much that it affects keeping others, then let 'em go.

The Packers need to find ways to fit blue-chip players under the cap. It's better to let average players not on rookie deals walk away instead.

Resigning guys like Dante Jones, Dean Lowery, etc. to big contract didn't work out very well for the Packers.

None of them was an elite player nor did any of them get a big contract.

The Packers being in dead cap hell this offseason not only created a situation where they had to push even more money out, but Gute wasn't really able to address needs in Free Agency like he has in the past.

While the Packers have more dead money counting against their cap this season the number doesn't qualify as being in cap hell because of it.

Not so fast my friend. ESPN had an article last week ranking each teams overall drafts from 2012 to 2021. The Packers finished 5th overall. They then broke it down and ranked teams by each day. GB was the #1 team on day 3.

If that's accurate Gutekunst doesn't deserve a lot of credit for it. Actually only Runyan and Newman have been productive out of his day three picks in four years.

 

[PikeBadger]

I was replying to you mentioning that having three top cornerbacks is a luxury. In today's game that's not true anymore.

Top denotes best or close to best. No one has 3 cornerbacks that are in the top 10 in the league.
Imo, you don't want to expose yourself to poor cornerback play from anyone. Having one top 10 cornerback and 2 or 3 that are pretty good puts your pass defense in a good position to succeed. In a 32 team league, it's unrealistic to think you can stack top cornerbacks and still be good at other positions on the defense.

 

[tynimiller]

If that's accurate Gutekunst doesn't deserve a lot of credit for it. Actually only Runyan and Newman have been productive out of his day three picks in four years.

I'm sure you will respond with a disagreement over what "productive" means...but Kingsley Keke, Ty Summers, Garvin are three guys in the last four drafts on Day 3 that many would argue fit that bill.

Kylin Hill appeared to be headed that way but wouldn't be right to include due to injury.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I'm sure you will respond with a disagreement over what "productive" means...but Kingsley Keke, Ty Summers, Garvin are three guys in the last four drafts on Day 3 that many would argue fit that bill.

Kylin Hill appeared to be headed that way but wouldn't be right to include due to injury.

Valdes-Scantling was productive while he was here as well. Can't remember if that was a Gutekunst or Thompson pick, but not bad for a 5th rounder.

 

[gopkrs]

Valdes-Scantling was productive while he was here as well. Can't remember if that was a Gutekunst or Thompson pick, but not bad for a 5th rounder.

It was Gute. But it also shows what happens when you try to hit the lottery by picking a bunch of W/Os from later rounds. MVS was the only one to really show promise imo and then we cannot sign him at the end of his rookie contract because we really don't know if he's worth it.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

It was Gute. But it also shows what happens when you try to hit the lottery by picking a bunch of W/Os from later rounds. MVS was the only one to really show promise imo and then we cannot sign him at the end of his rookie contract because we really don't know if he's worth it.

Actually, I think it's a pretty solid strategy. You hit on one, get four years of production on a rookie contract, and then let someone else overpay for him while you go look for the next one.

I'd do it again.

 

[gopkrs]

Actually, I think it's a pretty solid strategy. You hit on one, get four years of production on a rookie contract, and then let someone else overpay for him while you go look for the next one.

I'd do it again.

I'd only say that he never contributed enough for me and made a lot of drops. And then there are two or three draft spots you could have used on special teamers for example. Which we could have used. Not sure what "production" you are referring to for four years. He showed potential only.

 

[tynimiller]

Valdes-Scantling was productive while he was here as well. Can't remember if that was a Gutekunst or Thompson pick, but not bad for a 5th rounder.

Captain excluded the 2018 class from his comment so that is why I did not include.

 

[tynimiller]

I'd only say that he never contributed enough for me and made a lot of drops. And then there are two or three draft spots you could have used on special teamers for example. Which we could have used. Not sure what "production" you are referring to for four years. He showed potential only.

The dude out performed EVERY receiver not picked in his draft outside the first round except for Michael Gallup essentially and similar to a few others in second (Sutton and Kirk)....sorry but if he didn't do enough for a 5th rounder I think you need to lower your expectations for 5th rounders at the WR skill position.

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[Schultz]

The Packers will need a combination of receivers picking up the slack with Adams not being around anymore no matter what. Taking a look at the current depth chart I have more faith in a first round rookie to put up decent numbers than any other WR currently on the roster.



As I've mentioned repeatedly I'm not in favor of trading young blue-chip players. That's not a recipe for success.



I understand that Alexander will ask to be paid at market value but it doesn't matter if it's his first, second or third big contract.



It's possible to have an elite player at a position and to surround him with above average players as well.



Don't worry, according to some here it's best to trade away Gary and Clark instead of signing them to big contracts as well.



The Packers need to find ways to fit blue-chip players under the cap. It's better to let average players not on rookie deals walk away instead.



None of them was an elite player nor did any of them get a big contract.



While the Packers have more dead money counting against their cap this season the number doesn't qualify as being in cap hell because of it.



If that's accurate Gutekunst doesn't deserve a lot of credit for it. Actually only Runyan and Newman have been productive out of his day three picks in four years.

Since it is compared to other teams day 3 picks the bar may not be too high. I would also have to say that JK Scott and MVS were starters. Then guys like V. Scott and Garvin are expected to contribute this season and last years day 3 draft (could ) turn out to be very good.

 

[Schultz]

The dude out performed EVERY receiver not picked in his draft outside the first round except for Michael Gallup essentially and similar to a few others in second (Sutton and Kirk)....sorry but if he didn't do enough for a 5th rounder I think you need to lower your expectations for 5th rounders at the WR skill position.

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Stop with the facts. They ruin all of the threads.