It’s now OFFICIAL!!! Rodgers has been traded to the Jets.

[MadCat]

To think Eli won 2 and he could not. A shame.

Eli’s team won 2 and Aaron’s team could not.

 

[Half Empty]

His legacy is Super Bowl winning QB, 4 time MVP, and first ballot Hall of Famer.

Only the first one counts at all for Packer fans.

 

[Mondio]

actually if you didn't appreciate having one of the best to every play the position in the history of the game, i'm not sure you're much of a fan of anything but the winning other people do to satisfy your own ego. and people call Rodgers selfish LOL. Liking to win is easy, appreciating the game takes more. So no, much much more counts to some of us Packer fans than just a super bowl trophy. Watching someone have a HOF career is pretty special all on its own. The fact we got to watch him week after week, year after year play for the team we cheer for counts for something in this Packer fan's book.

 

[Spanky]

It seems a lot of Packer fans take their worldview from Ricky Bobby's dad. Such a myopic way of going through life.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Nostalgia already? Not yet. Appreciation yes, but outright oh what a qb is quite another. His leadership stunk, period.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Like I said above - the only way we could have moved up enough in that draft to get Jefferson we would have had to trade away almost all the remaining picks we had that year. There was zero chance of that happening.

According to the draft value chart the Packers adding a second round pick would have been more than enough to trade up ahead of the Vikings from the 30th pick.

It's obvious that the de facto offensive coordinator in Green Bay is the head coach. He designs the offense, its his system, he calls the plays. This ought to be clear, as Hackett had no background in the system before arriving to Green Bay and has had minimal success as an offensive coach apart from working under LaFleur.

In my opinion Hackett deserves some credit for the success of the offense while he was in Green Bay as well. While he wasn't part of a lot of teams which featured a good offense you need to take a look at the quarterbacks he had to work with as well while being the coordinator as well (EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, Blake Bortles).

It's true he failed as a head coach with the Broncos but I don't consider him a terrible OC because of it.

Now you have a very similar situation. The way that Rodgers wants to play is not very advantageous for an offense anymore. Like so many QB's nearing the end of their careers, he wants to be in shotgun, eschew true play-action, keep the formations static, big brain the opposing defense, and make plays.

I have posted those numbers several times last season as well but you have conveniently ignored them so far. While the percentage of Rodgers lining up under center dropped last season to 19.2% compared to 22.4% in 2021 and 25.3% in '20 it wasn't drastic in the first place. In addition him having a broken thumb definitely factored into it as well.

On top of it the use of play action didn't decrease at all compared to his two MVP winning seasons (27.0% in 2022, 25.7% in '21 and 28.9% in '20).

I see no evidence that ever happening nor has he or anyone eluded to such a “closed door” meeting. Until I see evidence of that? Aaron Rodgers handled this situation as bad or worse than anyone else he’s pointing fingers at.

You want evidence of a closed door meeting? That's completely unrealistic to begin with. In addition I'm quite sure Rodgers told the front office he was disappointed in them not surrounding him with enough talent.

Rating and QBR, 2015-Present:

-2015: 15th, 14th
-2016: 4th, 4th
-2017: 8th, 7th
-2018: 13th, 17th
-2019: 12th, 20th
-2020: 1st, 1st
-2021: 1st, 1st
-2022: 15th, 27th

Rodgers ability to play at an elite level was eroding under McCarthy and the style of play that characterized his later tenure. It was revitalized when he embraced LaFleur's offense. It tailed off hard again in 2022 when he pulled it back in his direction. The contrasts are stark.

But perspectives develop with new data. Last off-season, he gained a bunch of leverage, signed a big new extension, complained and clearly used that leverage to pull the offense back in the direction that he prefers. It didn't work. Only when it became clear that the offense was basically inoperable did you see the hallmarks of LaFleur's system come back. In the first half of the season, there were analysts on Twitter openly wondering where LaFleur's offense disappeared to.

He is no longer capable of playing the style of offense that made him famous at an elite level. I don't know why that would surprise anyone. He turns 40 this year. He needs to be a cog in a system. The most important cog, no doubt, but a cog nonetheless. But I do not think he accepts this; he is supremely confident in his own abilities. That doesn't make him a bad person. But I think I know how it will play out in New York.

Finally, for some reason people can't seem to understand that this is not a binary issue. Nothing is 100% Rodgers' fault. Nowhere have I denied other issues, such as personnel or injuries. It's perfectly reasonable to say both of these things:

1) The way that Rodgers wants to play does not maximize his skills or his offense.

2) Rodgers' tendencies were not the only problems with the Green Bay offense last year.

In my opinion you completely underestimate the impact Rodgers suffering a broken thumb as well as having to deal with inferior talent at pass catchers had on his performance last season.

I would have preferred that the 2024 pick not be tied to snaps, but to some type of performance while he played, i.e. what he provided the Jets while on the field.

I don't understand that take at all. I absolutely love that the compensation the Packers receive in 2024 isn't tied to the Jets or Rodgers performance as it results in a better pick if they struggle in 2023.

 

[Dantés]

In my opinion Hackett deserves some credit for the success of the offense while he was in Green Bay as well. While he wasn't part of a lot of teams which featured a good offense you need to take a look at the quarterbacks he had to work with as well while being the coordinator as well (EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, Blake Bortles).

It's true he failed as a head coach with the Broncos but I don't consider him a terrible OC because of it.

I have posted those numbers several times last season as well but you have conveniently ignored them so far. While the percentage of Rodgers lining up under center dropped last season to 19.2% compared to 22.4% in 2021 and 25.3% in '20 it wasn't drastic in the first place. In addition him having a broken thumb definitely factored into it as well.

On top of it the use of play action didn't decrease at all compared to his two MVP winning seasons (27.0% in 2022, 25.7% in '21 and 28.9% in '20).

In my opinion you completely underestimate the impact Rodgers suffering a broken thumb as well as having to deal with inferior talent at pass catchers had on his performance last season.

I think it's absurd to give Hackett the benefit of the doubt after what we've seen from him everywhere he's been other than in GB. It's also simply inarguable that LaFleur is the de facto OC of the Packers. The offense within which Rodgers won two MVP's was nothing like anything Hackett had run anywhere he had been previously. Furthermore, the personnel excuses made for him went up in smoke last year in Denver. You can give him credit if you wish, but you have to do so in spite of the evidence.

Rodgers didn't break his thumb until week 6. The signs of the offense being pulled back in the direction of his preferences preceded the injury. In fact, they were most obvious before the injury. I've got no problem with the concept that it impacted his play, and that along with OL/WR absences/injuries, was a factor in his performance. But the thumb injury itself does not begin to explain the shift in offensive philosophy.

If you weren't paying attention and didn't see the shift, that's fine. But it was openly discussed and Rodgers' influence on the offensive approach reported on by many who cover the team. It's bizarre to me that people have such a problem with me pointing out an obviously true phenomenon.

 

[Spanky]

It will be interesting to see if the Jets pull Rodgers from games early if the team is up or down by a lot. Limit his snaps in case he misses a few games and makes playing under 65% of their snaps a possibility. Obviously if he plays 17 games that tactic will not work.

 

[Pkrjones]

It will be interesting to see if the Jets pull Rodgers from games early if the team is up or down by a lot. Limit his snaps in case he misses a few games and makes playing under 65% of their snaps a possibility. Obviously if he plays 17 games that tactic will not work.

I think AR would understand the reasoning, but doubt he'd be "OK" with that. He doesn't like to leave a game unless there's less than 2 minutes left with a big lead/deficit from past history.

 

[Mondio]

I think it's absurd to give Hackett the benefit of the doubt after what we've seen from him everywhere he's been other than in GB. It's also simply inarguable that LaFleur is the de facto OC of the Packers. The offense within which Rodgers won two MVP's was nothing like anything Hackett had run anywhere he had been previously. Furthermore, the personnel excuses made for him went up in smoke last year in Denver. You can give him credit if you wish, but you have to do so in spite of the evidence.

Rodgers didn't break his thumb until week 6. The signs of the offense being pulled back in the direction of his preferences preceded the injury. In fact, they were most obvious before the injury. I've got no problem with the concept that it impacted his play, and that along with OL/WR absences/injuries, was a factor in his performance. But the thumb injury itself does not begin to explain the shift in offensive philosophy.

If you weren't paying attention and didn't see the shift, that's fine. But it was openly discussed and Rodgers' influence on the offensive approach reported on by many who cover the team. It's bizarre to me that people have such a problem with me pointing out an obviously true phenomenon.

I saw what you're talking about, but I don't think it was Rodgers alone in doing that. I also noticed that as the oline played better, we got some of the better wr's on the field and the run game was effective, things look a lot more like the stuff that "used to work" for us. I think available personnel, game situations etc pushed both rodgers and the HC to plan and call games a certain way. There were a few times this year where it became obvious that when we as fans thought rodgers was changing plays, they were in fact called by the HC. Even the very last set of downs we had for the season, those looked like something we'd tag to Rodgers wanting to call, but they were called by the HC.

I think AR would understand the reasoning, but doubt he'd be "OK" with that. He doesn't like to leave a game unless there's less than 2 minutes left with a big lead/deficit from past history.

I think if they're out of the playoffs at some point you might see him pulled if they can save a draft pick, or if they're just getting trounced and there's only 2-3 min left in the game or something but even then I think they'll view all those opportunities for the team and the QB to get work on the field together in games as more valuable towards their end of season goal than they will worry about saving snaps for a draft pick next year.

 

[Dantés]

I saw what you're talking about, but I don't think it was Rodgers alone in doing that. I also noticed that as the oline played better, we got some of the better wr's on the field and the run game was effective, things look a lot more like the stuff that "used to work" for us. I think available personnel, game situations etc pushed both rodgers and the HC to plan and call games a certain way. There were a few times this year where it became obvious that when we as fans thought rodgers was changing plays, they were in fact called by the HC. Even the very last set of downs we had for the season, those looked like something we'd tag to Rodgers wanting to call, but they were called by the HC.



I think if they're out of the playoffs at some point you might see him pulled if they can save a draft pick, or if they're just getting trounced and there's only 2-3 min left in the game or something but even then I think they'll view all those opportunities for the team and the QB to get work on the field together in games as more valuable towards their end of season goal than they will worry about saving snaps for a draft pick next year.

It stretches the bounds of my credulity to believe that the offense shifting way in favor of Rodgers preferences right after he signed a big extension was a coincidence created by personnel.

And I’ll just continue to reiterate that I am not talking about Rodgers checking playcalls. I am talking about formation, true play action, shotgun vs under center, condensed vs spread, personnel groupings. The structure of the offense was different.

 

[Mondio]

you can't use words like credulity on me, I get lost.

Just like I think the reason Rodgers didn't throw to the middle of the field much at various points in his career was more so because of players on the field than him just refusing to or forgetting that it can be a productive place to throw, I don't think he just decided he was going to run a different offense than what was effective for him. He may have an ego, but I don't think he's that stupid either. He wants to win.

i'm sure his tendencies effected some stuff, but I think the Oline and WR injuries/youth had more to do with what we saw, than what we're discussing.

 

[Dantés]

you can't use words like credulity on me, I get lost.

Just like I think the reason Rodgers didn't throw to the middle of the field much at various points in his career was more so because of players on the field than him just refusing to or forgetting that it can be a productive place to throw, I don't think he just decided he was going to run a different offense than what was effective for him. He may have an ego, but I don't think he's that stupid either. He wants to win.

i'm sure his tendencies effected some stuff, but I think the Oline and WR injuries/youth had more to do with what we saw, than what we're discussing.

I don't think he's stupid at all. But I do believe he's supremely confident in his abilities and still prefers to play in a style that once made him the most electric player in football. But he isn't that guy any more.

It's somewhat akin to the waning days of Roethlisberger. Rodgers is obviously way, way better now than Big Ben was at the end. But during the last few years of Roethlisberger's career, it didn't really matter who was at OC-- they were running the Big Ben offense. He had a way that he preferred to play and that's what they were going to do.

My big picture take on Rodgers is basically that-- he is going to pull and offense in the direction of his preferences. The only time that the Packers have gotten away from that was in the two seasons immediately following the Jordan Love draft.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It will be interesting to see if the Jets pull Rodgers from games early if the team is up or down by a lot. Limit his snaps in case he misses a few games and makes playing under 65% of their snaps a possibility. Obviously if he plays 17 games that tactic will not work.

Things to wish for:

1. Rodgers stays healthy.

2. Every offensive drive of the Jets lasts 10+ plays and ends in a fumble or interception. The Jets defense produce a lot of 3 and outs or gives up quick TD's/GF's.

3. The Jets start the season 2-8, but not mathematically eliminated until game 17.

4. Rodgers takes well over 65% of the offensive snaps and the 2-15 Jets hand the Packers the very first pick of the 2024 draft.

This was part of the reason why I wasn't super exited about "snap percentages" being the determination of what the pick is. If Rodgers gets injured or as Spanky alluded to, the Jets start keeping an eye on that number and massage it to keep it under 65%, the Packers lose out on a first round pick. I would have preferred the pick to be based on Rodgers individual performance while playing, i.e. how he plays for the Jets/his value to him. Maybe QBR or completion percentage, etc.

Anyway, I don't think much of this will matter. Games aren't a lock until a team is up by more than 28 points and under 10 minutes to go. I also keep joking about the Jets being a terrible team, realistically, I don't actually expect that. Unless Rodgers gets injured (season ending) in the first half of the season, the Packers will get the Jets first round pick in 2024. Where it lands, who knows.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think it's absurd to give Hackett the benefit of the doubt after what we've seen from him everywhere he's been other than in GB. It's also simply inarguable that LaFleur is the de facto OC of the Packers. The offense within which Rodgers won two MVP's was nothing like anything Hackett had run anywhere he had been previously. Furthermore, the personnel excuses made for him went up in smoke last year in Denver. You can give him credit if you wish, but you have to do so in spite of the evidence.

Well, let's take a closer look at the performance of the team's Hackett was the offensive coordinator on.

The Bills definitely didn't put up impressive numbers in his two seasons but finishing 22nd and 18th in points scored isn't terrible either considering EJ Manuel, Thaddeus Lewis, Jeff Tuel and Kyle Orton were the quarterbacks who started games for them in 2013 and '14.

In 2017, the Jaguars offense was actually pretty good, finishing in fifth in points scored with Blake Bortles starting every single game. They significantly regressed next season finishing 31st but there's no doubt Hackett did a good job running their offense in 2017.

Once again, I'm not suggesting he was the main reason for the Packers offense to do well but he wasn't a puppet only either. There's no doubt he struggled mightily as a head coach with the Broncos last season but that's not his job moving forward with the Jets next season.

Rodgers didn't break his thumb until week 6. The signs of the offense being pulled back in the direction of his preferences preceded the injury. In fact, they were most obvious before the injury. I've got no problem with the concept that it impacted his play, and that along with OL/WR absences/injuries, was a factor in his performance. But the thumb injury itself does not begin to explain the shift in offensive philosophy.

If you weren't paying attention and didn't see the shift, that's fine. But it was openly discussed and Rodgers' influence on the offensive approach reported on by many who cover the team. It's bizarre to me that people have such a problem with me pointing out an obviously true phenomenon.

You continue to act as if it's fact the offensive philosophy changed drastically in 2022 yet the numbers don't support that. Rodgers didn't line up in the shotgun significantly more and still used play action on a similar percentage of his dropbacks compared to the previous two seasons.

While Rodgers not performing up to potential factored into the offense struggling a lack of talent at pass catchers as well as injuries on the offensive line had a more significant impact on the unit.

It stretches the bounds of my credulity to believe that the offense shifting way in favor of Rodgers preferences right after he signed a big extension was a coincidence created by personnel.

Rodgers earned a ton of money during the 2020 and '21 seasons as well. I don't believe him signing an extension (which ended up being a one-year, $42 million deal with the Packers) had any impact on the offensive philosophy.

And I’ll just continue to reiterate that I am not talking about Rodgers checking playcalls. I am talking about formation, true play action, shotgun vs under center, condensed vs spread, personnel groupings. The structure of the offense was different.

Once again, the numbers don't support your take on it at all.

Things to wish for:

2. Every offensive drive of the Jets lasts 10+ plays and ends in a fumble or interception. The Jets defense produce a lot of 3 and outs or gives up quick TD's/GF's.

The number of snaps the Jets' defense ends up playing won't have any impact on the percentage of offensive snaps Rodgers is taking.

3. The Jets start the season 2-8, but not mathematically eliminated until game 17.

4. Rodgers takes well over 65% of the offensive snaps and the 2-15 Jets hand the Packers the very first pick of the 2024 draft.

How will it be possible for the Jets to not be mathematically eliminated until the last week of the regular season while finishing 2-15?

This was part of the reason why I wasn't super exited about "snap percentages" being the determination of what the pick is. If Rodgers gets injured or as Spanky alluded to, the Jets start keeping an eye on that number and massage it to keep it under 65%, the Packers lose out on a first round pick. I would have preferred the pick to be based on Rodgers individual performance while playing, i.e. how he plays for the Jets/his value to him. Maybe QBR or completion percentage, etc.

Once again, I definitely like that the compensation the Packers receive in 2024 is solely based on Rodgers' playing time. Aside of an injury it's all but guaranteed he will play at least 65% of the snaps which will result in Green Bay getting a first rounder next year no matter how he ends up performing. That could result in an early pick as well. If it would have been based on performance there would have been no way for them to get a first rounder in return if the Jets end up struggling.

 

[Krabs]

You want evidence of a closed door meeting? That's completely unrealistic to begin with. In addition I'm quite sure Rodgers told the front office he was disappointed in them not surrounding him with enough talent.

And yet, he took Lazard and Cobb with him to the Jets. Not talented enough, but talented enough to take to the Jets.

 

[AmishMafia]

And yet, he took Lazard and Cobb with him to the Jets. Not talented enough, but talented enough to take to the Jets.

Just came to this thread to post the same thing.

So now AR has the same amount of receiver talent as he had last season with the Packers. Watson as a rookie was almost as good as fellow rookie Wilson by the end of the season. Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon were much better than any RB the Jets had as a receiver, and only a slight edge to Jets in TE dept.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just came to this thread to post the same thing.

So now AR has the same amount of receiver talent as he had last season with the Packers. Watson as a rookie was almost as good as fellow rookie Wilson by the end of the season. Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon were much better than any RB the Jets had as a receiver, and only a slight edge to Jets in TE dept.

Once they sign Lewis, it is off the the Super Bowl!

I either heard it or read it, but it sounds like Lewis doesn't want to play in New York, something about the income tax rate. He also loves MLF and his offense, so who knows, he might be back in GB. They haven't given his number away yet.

 

[tynimiller]

Once they sign Lewis, it is off the the Super Bowl!

I either heard it or read it, but it sounds like Lewis doesn't want to play in New York, something about the income tax rate. He also loves MLF and his offense, so who knows, he might be back in GB. They haven't given his number away yet.

Lewis said he loves MLF and if he plays again it would be for him. It was either the week leading up to the final week or after that final game, I remember watching the locker interview but cannot recall specifics.

 

[AmishMafia]

Lewis said he loves MLF and if he plays again it would be for him. It was either the week leading up to the final week or after that final game, I remember watching the locker interview but cannot recall specifics.

I hope we resign him. Still an effective blocker and a guy you definitely want around the young and impressionable rookies.

 

[OldSchool101]

Greatest Underachiever! The best of the Last!

I’m just kidding just unwad your britches

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I hope we resign him. Still an effective blocker and a guy you definitely want around the young and impressionable rookies.

Starting to think the same. It wouldn't be investing in just a player, but also a coach. I imagine he is a good guy to have around in the locker room as well.

 

[pacmaniac]

And yet, he took Lazard and Cobb with him to the Jets. Not talented enough, but talented enough to take to the Jets.

Love how Rodgers says he wants "guys you can win with" to be with him on the Jets. All that Super Bowl experience that Cobb has will surely help.

 

[Dantés]

Well, let's take a closer look at the performance of the team's Hackett was the offensive coordinator on.

The Bills definitely didn't put up impressive numbers in his two seasons but finishing 22nd and 18th in points scored isn't terrible either considering EJ Manuel, Thaddeus Lewis, Jeff Tuel and Kyle Orton were the quarterbacks who started games for them in 2013 and '14.

In 2017, the Jaguars offense was actually pretty good, finishing in fifth in points scored with Blake Bortles starting every single game. They significantly regressed next season finishing 31st but there's no doubt Hackett did a good job running their offense in 2017.

Once again, I'm not suggesting he was the main reason for the Packers offense to do well but he wasn't a puppet only either. There's no doubt he struggled mightily as a head coach with the Broncos last season but that's not his job moving forward with the Jets next season.

You continue to act as if it's fact the offensive philosophy changed drastically in 2022 yet the numbers don't support that. Rodgers didn't line up in the shotgun significantly more and still used play action on a similar percentage of his dropbacks compared to the previous two seasons.

While Rodgers not performing up to potential factored into the offense struggling a lack of talent at pass catchers as well as injuries on the offensive line had a more significant impact on the unit.

Rodgers earned a ton of money during the 2020 and '21 seasons as well. I don't believe him signing an extension (which ended up being a one-year, $42 million deal with the Packers) had any impact on the offensive philosophy.

Once again, the numbers don't support your take on it at all.

The number of snaps the Jets' defense ends up playing won't have any impact on the percentage of offensive snaps Rodgers is taking.

How will it be possible for the Jets to not be mathematically eliminated until the last week of the regular season while finishing 2-15?

Once again, I definitely like that the compensation the Packers receive in 2024 is solely based on Rodgers' playing time. Aside of an injury it's all but guaranteed he will play at least 65% of the snaps which will result in Green Bay getting a first rounder next year no matter how he ends up performing. That could result in an early pick as well. If it would have been based on performance there would have been no way for them to get a first rounder in return if the Jets end up struggling.

Lest this turns into another spat, I'll just keep it simple and say this:

1) You're going to have a tough time convincing most people that Hackett is a great offensive coach.

2) Many aspects of the offensive shifts that I'm referring to aren't measurable, at least not in what is usually publicly available.

You don't have to agree. We can see what things look like in New York.

 

[Dantés]

I think that the fact that the Jets are going out and signing Rodgers friends is a good indicator of what I've been talking about-- when he has leverage, he exerts his influence to pull the offense in the direction of his preferences. This does not make him a bad person or player, but it can have a negative effect on an offense.