Is The Patriots the Greatest Team in NFL History?

Packnation

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***Are the patriots the greatest team in nfl history?*** not is the patriots...
Also, are you talking about greatest franchise? Or are you talking this years team?
If it’s this years team then no...
If your question is patriots franchise? Then it’s debatable.. i would say yes but that’s just my opinion
 

jetfixer

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They are on the greatest run of a coach and a qb. No disrespect to our greats, but you can’t argue how this has gone for a long time.

By the way, this is why I’ll be all in for the Eagles.
 

rmontro

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They are on the greatest run of a coach and a qb. No disrespect to our greats, but you can’t argue how this has gone for a long time.
There's some confusion because the title of the thread says "greatest team", which is very vague and could mean a lot of things. But the title of the article is "greatest franchise", which is a separate subject. I have no problem with GB and Pittsburgh being #1, #2.

The current Belichick/Brady Patriots have a strong argument because of their longevity. But the greatest run of a coach and a QB? I'd take Lombardi/Starr's five NFL championships over a seven year period for that.
 

BrokenArrow

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***Are the patriots the greatest team in nfl history?*** not is the patriots...

Since we're playing grammar police, WI Mike was actually correct. He's not talking about literal patriots, or a group of specific Patriots players. He's talking about an NFL franchise named the Patriots. You could name that team anything you want. The fact that the franchise uses a proper noun in its plural form does not change the fact that he is referencing the franchise as a single entity. Therefore, the singular verb "is" is correct. Of course, as a colloquialism, your choice of words is fine as well in day-to-day speech, assuming your audience knows your meaning.

Example:

Is "The Goonies" a good movie?
Are "The Goonies" a good movie?

Which sounds right to you? Same principle. Now if he was referencing a specific group of Patriots players, or a specific year's team, then plural would be correct.

"Are the Patriots playing this week?" is correct because it refers to a specific group of players who carry the "Patriots" name. But again, Mike was referring to the franchise as a whole, independent of any specific players, making "is" the correct verb in his context.

The flip side is even odder sounding. Take a group with a singular name for example:

"Rush is an awesome band." Nobody argues whether "is" is correct because it is a reference to the band as a whole. However...
"Rush are awesome, especially Neil Peart." Since the sentence references individual members of Rush, the plural "are" is technically correct, although nobody would ever complain if "is" was used in its place.

Bottom line, while your version of the question posed in this post is perfectly acceptable in colloquial speech, Mike was not incorrect.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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I'm sure for people 30 and younger, this seems like a no brainer. However, the Pats really didn't become relevant until 1993 and before that, they were pretty pathetic. As the article stated, "two decades don't make a dynasty", but I would say depending on how the next 50 or so years go, the Pats have padded their weighted average pretty heavily in the last 17 years or so with Brady and Belichick.
 

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The writer led off with 5 Super Bowls and 5 NFL Championships?? 5 Super Bowl APPEARANCES is a heckuva lot different than 6 Super Bowl WINS which is the domain of the Steelers and Cowboys.

Fact is that a championship is a championship whether or not it has a "marketing term" in front of it or not -- which is what SUPER BOWL is.

There is a lot to be said for the Pats. Let's be honest here, blind loyalty aside, 10 Super Bowl appearaces is 10 Super Bowls appearances. In that time frame, how many AFC Championsips? Brady has been in 12 AFC Championship games and 8 Super Bowls in what... 18 years? I wouldn't want to be the guy looking dumb while saying that's anything BUT a dynasty.

Now, would Brady be there without Bellichik and vice-versa? Moot point...and some pretty ****-poor equivocation in my book.

Personally, WHEN the championships were won is an argument put forward by the fan of an expansion team. 13 is 13, recognized by the NFL and that is all she wrote.

However, those refusing to give the Pats their due are just plain disingenuous.

Greatest franchise of all time? Silly, circuitous argument to which there is no answer.
 

Raptorman

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Point of fact about the Patriots. As a franchise, they record for wins/loses did not move about .500 until 2006. Prior to that season their record was 334-345-9. After 2006 their record was 350-349-9. Greatest Franchise, no. Greatest team? No.
 

rmontro

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I agree with us being #1 but this list really has the Redskins ahead of the 49ers and Patsies?
Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with that either.

5 Super Bowl APPEARANCES is a heckuva lot different than 6 Super Bowl WINS which is the domain of the Steelers and Cowboys.
Only the Steelers have won six Super Bowls (as of this writing anyway). The Cowboys, 49ers, and Patriots (so far) have five.
 

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Being a Packer fan, I enjoy quoting the 13 champions as much as anyone - to other teams' fans. Here, though, I'd say we need to get a grip. Just under half of those were before I was born, and I'll be 73 shortly. The first three ('29-'31) were strictly because the Pack finished the season ahead of the other 11, 10, and 9 teams (yes, in that order, as teams were dropping out of the league). In '36, '39. and '44, they made it to the league championship by winning the West over 4-5 other teams and beating the East in a one-game playoff. If we're going to get into a discussion of the number and quality of opponents, I think we need to take a long at ourselves first. Also, if we're going to consider ancient team history, remember that the Browns fans move way up in the bragging rights hierarchy. Just sayin'.

Side issue, of course, but this is why I'm in the circle that feels it's the Lomardi or bust and that the last quarter century hasn't been nearly as productive as many feel. Downstream, folks are still going to be talking about league champtionships, not winning seasons/percentage, division titles, or whatever.
 

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Being a Packer fan, I enjoy quoting the 13 champions as much as anyone - to other teams' fans. Here, though, I'd say we need to get a grip. Just under half of those were before I was born, and I'll be 73 shortly. The first three ('29-'31) were strictly because the Pack finished the season ahead of the other 11, 10, and 9 teams (yes, in that order, as teams were dropping out of the league). In '36, '39. and '44, they made it to the league championship by winning the West over 4-5 other teams and beating the East in a one-game playoff. If we're going to get into a discussion of the number and quality of opponents, I think we need to take a long at ourselves first. Also, if we're going to consider ancient team history, remember that the Browns fans move way up in the bragging rights hierarchy. Just sayin'.

Side issue, of course, but this is why I'm in the circle that feels it's the Lomardi or bust and that the last quarter century hasn't been nearly as productive as many feel. Downstream, folks are still going to be talking about league champtionships, not winning seasons/percentage, division titles, or whatever.

Stop being so damn old and logical, you are bursting young bubbles! ;)

I was thinking about the Browns yesterday as well. If they got on a hot streak like the Patriots, yeah I know might not happen in this Century, but if they did, they might actually become "The Greatest Franchise Ever".

In this day of "what have you done for me lately?" and instant gratification, people tend to forget or not know what happened in the past.
 

rmontro

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Being a Packer fan, I enjoy quoting the 13 champions as much as anyone - to other teams' fans. Here, though, I'd say we need to get a grip. Just under half of those were before I was born, and I'll be 73 shortly. The first three ('29-'31) were strictly because the Pack finished the season ahead of the other 11, 10, and 9 teams (yes, in that order, as teams were dropping out of the league).
I don't see how that's relevant. Football changes over time. You play under the rules of the season that you are playing. That's how you won championships back in those days. Just like now, you can get in with a wild card and win the championship that way. Some might not like that idea either. Who cares? I agree that the longevity of the franchise is part of why we have the most championships, but again, so what? Facts is facts. Just because someone now doesn't like the way things were done in 1930, that doesn't make those championships any less legitimate.
 

RepStar15

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Having a super bowl party with a ton of patriots fans, making Philly Cheesesteaks and wearing green (Bart starr Jersey) :whistling:
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Throw in some Leinenkugel's and brats smothered in cheese and when should I arrive? I will wear my Reggie White (Packers) jersey.
 

XPack

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Having a super bowl party with a ton of patriots fans, making Philly Cheesesteaks and wearing green (Bart starr Jersey) :whistling:

Supporting the Eagles!

I was once tempted to gift a mate a Pats Jersey with name at the back reading "One of the tw.ats". ;) Decided it was worth money spent.
 

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I don't see how that's relevant. Football changes over time. You play under the rules of the season that you are playing. That's how you won championships back in those days. Just like now, you can get in with a wild card and win the championship that way. Some might not like that idea either. Who cares? I agree that the longevity of the franchise is part of why we have the most championships, but again, so what? Facts is facts. Just because someone now doesn't like the way things were done in 1930, that doesn't make those championships any less legitimate.

So, back on topic, how do you feel about the Patriots?
 

weeds

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Having a super bowl party with a ton of patriots fans, making Philly Cheesesteaks and wearing green (Bart starr Jersey) :whistling:

Just sayin'... The last Super Bowl winner to NOT wear white jerseys... WAS? ...and what color did THAT TEAM wear?
 

rmontro

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So, back on topic, how do you feel about the Patriots?
Actually, talking about the Packers is on topic, because the thread is about the best franchise in NFL history, and that's the Packers. Even the article linked to says so.
But to answer your question:

There are certain teams I hate. I've always hated Dallas from when I was younger - didn't like their swagger and the whole "America's team" thing. They were also pretty good at the time (in the 70s). I hate the Bears (I live in Indiana and Chicago was the most popular team here before the Colts moved to Indianapolis). I hate the Vikings and even the Lions because they're in our division. Lately I've come to hate the Seahawks - similar swagger to the old Cowboys, the Fail Mary, the collapse in the NFCCG. Sometimes I've hated the Eagles, because of 4th and 26th and their fans are crap. Even the 49ers have ticked me off a few times.

The Patriots are in the AFC so I really don't care about them much one way or the other. I don't hate them. I've gone through phases with them, the cheating scandals raise some eyebrows. But at the end of the day, I have to grudgingly respect what they've done, how can you not? I wanted Jacksonville to beat them though. I tend to root against them because of the underdog effect.

I don't know who I want to win the Super Bowl. I probably won't know until I'm watching it, then I'll find out how I really feel about it.
As for the article, no I don't think the Patriots are the greatest franchise in NFL history. The article probably undervalued them a little though.n
 

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