Is it Thompson or is it Wolf?

[El Guapo]

I'm ready for a morning beer

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm ready for a morning beer

I need to clean or adjust my monitor.....I thought that said "moaning beer".......I was wondering if you buy that by the 6 pack.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I need to clean or adjust my monitor.....I thought that said "moaning beer".......I was wondering if you buy that by the 6 pack.

I thought I saw "mourning beer". H*ll, the season hasn't even started!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I thought I saw "mourning beer". H*ll, the season hasn't even started!

Oh the season won't end for some until that opening coin toss is lost.

 

[RRyder]

It is bold and out of character in the world according to Ted Thomson.

Actually not really. He's signed a whopping one player that wasn't cut by their previous team (Bennett)

TT M.O. is that he consistently focuses on FA available for under the market value preferably releases by their previous team so it doesn't affect his comp picks.

That's been this offseason in a nutshell. There's simply been more opportunity this year. Can't count on a team switching schemes every year and cutting players that fit your scheme a week before the season starts.

This thread reeks of dammed if you. Dammed if you don't. If your going to blame TT when he does things you like you have to give him credit for doing things you approve of. If you don't then please don't ever complain if someone calls you a "hater"...... Cause you are

 

[HardRightEdge]

Actually not really. He's signed a whopping one player that wasn't cut by their previous team (Bennett)

TT M.O. is that he consistently focuses on FA available for under the market value preferably releases by their previous team so it doesn't affect his comp picks.

That's been this offseason in a nutshell. There's simply been more opportunity this year. Can't count on a team switching schemes every year and cutting players that fit your scheme a week before the season starts.

This thread reeks of dammed if you. Dammed if you don't. If your going to blame TT when he does things you like you have to give him credit for doing things you approve of. If you don't then please don't ever complain if someone calls you a "hater"...... Cause you are

What you failed to consider is the duration and cost of those contracts. Other than Dial, none of these guys are minimum salary, bargain basement. This is quite unique for Thompson. If it wasn't you would not have tried to make the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" argument.

Of course, that's not my conjecture at all, is it? I'm saying he was damned when he didn't, year after year, leaving holes to be filled by second and third year jumps that did not happen or hoping for poor veteran performance turn-arounds.

I am not saying he's damned that he did now; I'm saying he did it under influence and/or pressure.

Thompson's talent acquisition performance, draft and FA, over the last half decade has been average-to-poor. A push and some help were in order.

 

[Dantés]

Let's just call a spade a spade. Some Thompson critics just aren't going to give him credit.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Let's just call a spade a spade. Some Thompson critics just aren't going to give him credit.

He gets credit for picking a QB 12 years ago and giving Capers most of the high picks for several years running which he's had some trouble putting to use.

Rodgers aside, the body of work is pretty mediocre.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

i would only count the last two weeks or so as aggressive (brooks, odom, dial). everything else was passive-aggressive hole plugging. pretty much a talent wash for less dollars.

Thompson made some aggressive moves before the draft by signing Bennett, Kendricks and Evans as well.

TT engaged in very little in free agency early-on in his tenure. Nevertheless, he and his staff delivered a SB victory to punctuate the 2010 season.

Woodson, who was signed by Thompson as a free agent, was a major reason the Packers won the Super Bowl in 2010 though.

Actually not really. He's signed a whopping one player that wasn't cut by their previous team (Bennett)

FWIW you forgot about Jahri Evans.

 

[Dantés]

He gets credit for picking a QB 12 years ago and giving Capers most of the high picks for several years running which he's had some trouble putting to use.

Rodgers aside, the body of work is pretty mediocre.

You're making my point.

His track record is virtually identical to Wolf's. Mediocre... Lol.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

His track record is virtually identical to Wolf's. Mediocre... Lol.

While in my opinion it doesn't make any sense to evaluate a roster without including the most important position on a football team there's some truth to it that aside of Rodgers several teams Thompson assembled over the past lacked talent compared to most other clubs in the league.

 

[Dantés]

While in my opinion it doesn't make any sense to evaluate a roster without including the most important position on a football team there's some truth to it that aside of Rodgers several teams Thompson assembled over the past lacked talent compared to most other clubs in the league.

There's some opinion to it. Whether it's truth or not is fairly subjective.

The truth is that he and Wolf both had elite quarterbacks and almost identical results. But many will simultaneously say Wolf was great and Thompson is mediocre.

It's an agenda.

 

[HardRightEdge]

You're making my point.

His track record is virtually identical to Wolf's. Mediocre... Lol.

You've confused me with someone else. I never said anything about Ron Wolf.

 

[HardRightEdge]

There's some opinion to it. Whether it's truth or not is fairly subjective.

The truth is that he and Wolf both had elite quarterbacks and almost identical results. But many will simultaneously say Wolf was great and Thompson is mediocre.

It's an agenda.

There's no agenda. It's a perspective. I don't care how it's done or who does it, but I'd like to see this team not be embarrassed on their way to getting booted out of the playoffs. The fact of the matter is that Thompson's and Caper's playoff record is very disappointing. If they play well and get beat, it happens. But they need to make a respectable appearance throughout.

 

[Dantés]

You've confused me with someone else. I never said anything about Ron Wolf.

I understand that. My point is that Thompson's record with the Packers is basically identical to the Wolf/Favre era, which most fans consider to be quite successful. Between the two of them, they've had one of the longest runs of consistent success in recent history. That's not mediocrity.

 

[Dantés]

There's no agenda. It's a perspective. I don't care how it's done or who does it, but I'd like to see this team not be embarrassed on their way to getting booted out of the playoffs. The fact of the matter is that Thompson's and Caper's playoff record is very disappointing. If they play well and get beat, it happens. But they need to make a respectable appearance throughout.

If there isn't an agenda, then why when the free agents are being signed this offseason does the speculation abound that it must not really be him doing it behind the scenes? Why the baseless theories if there isn't really a desire to avoid giving some credit? Why is TT just a guy who drafted a good QB and has done nothing otherwise?

 

[Sky King]

Woodson, who was signed by Thompson as a free agent, was a major reason the Packers won the Super Bowl in 2010 though.

One would think that move alone would have inspired him to be a little more active in free-agency.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If there isn't an agenda, then why when the free agents are being signed this off season does the speculation abound that it must not really be him doing it behind the scenes?

This thread was not started in the off season. We're looking at the totality of the moves...now.

But lets say somebody did raise this question in the off season. Why is that an agenda? Why would it not be an observation of the facts, with a supposition attached? And if somebody had, then the recent moves reinforce the case.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I understand that.

Well, if you understood then why create a "Wolf was better agenda" straw man in response to me?

 

[HardRightEdge]

Why is TT just a guy who drafted a good QB and has done nothing otherwise?

I didn't say he has not done anything else, though it's highly questionable how many playoff appearances there would have been without Rodgers, the clear "A" factor.

What I did say is his roster building has been mediocre to poor on balance. Yes, he signed Woodson. He drafted Nick Collins. The Raji/Matthews draft was critical to the 3-4 switch and winning in 2010.

But this is his 13th. year on the job. Citing a small handful of big scores going back to 2009 and prior leading to a Super Bowl has to be balanced with what has happened since.

An inordinate amount of draft capital was expended on the defense in 2012 - 2016, and again this year. In FA, Peppers was the lone name of note. The results have been poor.

Is that Capers problem or the GM's? Does it matter? If the GM is the decider as you like to claim, he could have brought in a new DC. You want to say the buck stops with him, so there you have it.

So, in positing that somebody else has had an influence on this inodinate number of free agents is predicated on an observation that Thompson has been off his game for several years now and some outside influence was in order. I think he took more chances in the early years, as new GMs are wont to do, then got increasingly conservative in a "get to the playoffs and see what happens" mode.

Did Eliot Wolf influence these free agent signings? As Director of Football Operations you'd think so. Or did McCarthy have a hand in it? Both? Whichever way, it sure looks like it. Will Eliot Wolf be a better Packer GM than Ted Thompson? I have no idea. Will he stick around long enough to find out? I have no idea, though it surely won't be forever. Like I said, I give him a couple of years riding shotgun, tops.

Was signing this specific collection of free agents a good idea? Who knows? We'll soon find out. But that wasn't the point in the first place, was it?

 

[Dantés]

I'm not trying to create straw men. I made the assumption that you have a high opinion of the job Wolf did while on the job for the Packers. If you also feel that wolf was a mediocre GM, then that's consistent with your take on TT and I'm sorry for the assumption.

The point I'm making is similar to yours. We have no idea what exactly prompted the change in approach behind the scenes. But we do know who is still in charger and making the final calls. I'm sure that other higher ups in the FO had an influence, but I assume that's always been the case. So what I'm saying is that I find it odd that when TT finally does what many fans have called on him to do for some time now, many of those same people will attribute his actions to others without any basis.

To me, it's a pretty transparent attempt to damn TT if he does, just like he was damned when he didn't. But I think you're a great poster and don't want to get too deep in the weeds here over this, so I'll let this be my final word and move on.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The truth is that he and Wolf both had elite quarterbacks and almost identical results. But many will simultaneously say Wolf was great and Thompson is mediocre.

I believe that a lot of Packers fans hold Wolf in higher regard than Thompson because he was the one turning the franchise around in the early 1990s after the gory years. Taking an objective look at it there's absolutely no doubt both have had similar success though.

 

[swhitset]

I believe that a lot of Packers fans hold Wolf in higher regard than Thompson because he was the one turning the franchise around in the early 1990s after the gory years. Taking an objective look at it there's absolutely no doubt both have had similar success though.

Agreed... however, I believe Wolf has been quoted as saying he would not have liked to attempt to reproduce his success under the current salary cap rules.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Agreed... however, I believe Wolf has been quoted as saying he would not have liked to attempt to reproduce his success under the current salary cap rules.

In my opinion there's way too much stock being put into that quote by Wolf as I'm convinced he would have been a successful general manager in the salary cap era as well.

 

[swhitset]

In my opinion there's way too much stock being put into that quote by Wolf as I'm convinced he would have been a successful general manager in the salary cap era as well.

My gut says the same, however that does not change the fact it is more difficult now than then.