I don't think Mike and Ted are going anywhere

[HardRightEdge]

Can we please stop with the myth that TT is just some kind of genius unearthing late round and undrafted gems? He has had one significant UDFA in 11 years, Sam Shields. No one else that isn't either a subpar/ST only player or fizzled out quickly .

Look at these drafts: http://www.packers.com/history/draft-history.html

Anything worth a damn in the 6th/7th rounds that goes beyond your run of the mill backup or special teamer? I'd say maybe Desmond Bishop . That's IT.

Absolutely. None of the Thompson mythology stands up to the facts since 2010.

The UDFA myth is based on Tramon Williams in 2007 and Shields in 2010. Since then? You point to Bishop. Pennel's a decent player. That's about it.

As for "best player available", there is little evidence to support it beginning with the 2009 draft. Tops picks filled obvious needs.

The best thing we can say about Thompson is he's gotten good value out of rounds 2 - 4, many of whom were need picks as well.

Thompson's "genius" reputation chiefly resides in the drafting of Rodgers and Nelson, controversial "best player available" picks as the story goes.

Here's the thing...when a guy is building toward a winning team he has a lot of rope, 5 years is typical except with the impatient ownerships. Reggie McKenzie is a prime example...5 years, right on schedule, with plenty of bumps along the way.

Once on top, the tweeking begins to try to stay there; conservatism takes over.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The UDFA myth is based on Tramon Williams in 2007 and Shields in 2010. Since then? You point to Bishop. Pennel's a decent player. That's about it.

The Packers drafted Bishop in the sixth round of the 2007 draft.

 

[Mavster]

The real question though is who could they honestly bring in to replace him? Whoever you bring in is not going to make an impact immediately. It'll take a few years before the defensive schemes start to take root.

We don't know that for sure, and I'm willing take the risk of hiring a new guy who might be able to improve this defense versus sticking with the same losing formula.

 

[adambr2]

Absolutely. None of the Thompson mythology stands up to the facts since 2010.

The UDFA myth is based on Tramon Williams in 2007 and Shields in 2010. Since then? You point to Bishop. Pennel's a decent player. That's about it.

As for "best player available", there is little evidence to support it beginning with the 2009 draft. Tops picks filled obvious needs.

The best thing we can say about Thompson is he's gotten good value out of rounds 2 - 4, many of whom were need picks as well.

Thompson's "genius" reputation chiefly resides in the drafting of Rodgers and Nelson, controversial "best player available" picks as the story goes.

Here's the thing...when a guy is building toward a winning team he has a lot of rope, 5 years is typical except with the impatient ownerships. Reggie McKenzie is a prime example...5 years, right on schedule, with plenty of bumps along the way.

Once on top, the tweeking begins to try to stay there; conservatism takes over.

I don't even really give him credit for Tramon at least as far as his skill in finding UDFA's, as Tramon was a Texan UDFA and signed near the end of our 2006 season. Not that he doesn't get credit for that, but I look at that as a street FA. Regardless of perspective , the point is - there haven't been many hits at all.

I'd go as far as to say that our 4-6 record is a direct result, at least in part, of 5 years of miserable drafting catching up to us, finally leaving us with too shallow of roster talent to compete. Not that Rodgers has been blameless in all this, but it takes some pretty miserable talent to not be able to win with a top tier QB on your team.

 

[PikeBadger]

Are you talking notable free agent signings?
That's three in twelve years. Matthews (my bad) was a draft pick, so that's two. And Woodson he had to be talked into by Schneider.
Peppers did not have people beating down his door when he was released.

3 difference makers he went and got. All on defense. All were extremely talented in comparison to their peers.

Are you just wanting to throw huge sums of money at players unwanted by their former team so that it can't be said that the GM is "conservative"?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Are you just wanting to throw huge sums of money at players unwanted by their former team so that it can't be said that the GM is "conservative"?

There aren't any posters suggesting the Packers should randomly throw money at free agents just for the sale of signing one. There's no doubt Thompson should selectively use it more often to address positions of need.

 

[gonzozab]

That's just it. When Thompson actually does go the free agent route he is very good at it. Woodson and Peppers are Hall of Fame players. Peppers hasn't been great this year but 2014 and 2015 he was worth the money for sure. Pickett was a solid pickup too. It's too bad he only chooses free agency once every three years.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The Packers drafted Bishop in the sixth round of the 2007 draft.

All the more to the point. I guess we'd have to work our way down to guys like Jarrett Boykin and Evan Dietrich-Smith, (oops, that's Evan Smith now) though the Packers cut Smith then brought him back after he was cut by Seattle.

 

[HardRightEdge]

That's just it. When Thompson actually does go the free agent route he is very good at it. Woodson and Peppers are Hall of Fame players. Peppers hasn't been great this year but 2014 and 2015 he was worth the money for sure. Pickett was a solid pickup too. It's too bad he only chooses free agency once every three years.

Guion has been a decent player.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I don't even really give him credit for Tramon at least as far as his skill in finding UDFA's, as Tramon was a Texan UDFA and signed near the end of our 2006 season. Not that he doesn't get credit for that, but I look at that as a street FA. Regardless of perspective , the point is - there haven't been many hits at all.

I'd go as far as to say that our 4-6 record is a direct result, at least in part, of 5 years of miserable drafting catching up to us, finally leaving us with too shallow of roster talent to compete. Not that Rodgers has been blameless in all this, but it takes some pretty miserable talent to not be able to win with a top tier QB on your team.

There have been some decent drafts and some bad ones. But what's been lacking is getting play makers out of the first round. Even with Perry it took 5 years. Failure to back and fill with a few less than expensive free agents has not been helpful.

 

[Packer Brother]

Will definitely be interesting to see how many empty seats are at the next home game. Listening to sports radio etc, fans are as angry as ever.

 

[Forget Favre]

Will definitely be interesting to see how many empty seats are at the next home game. Listening to sports radio etc, fans are as angry as ever.

If we hear boos while watching, I won't blame one fan for doing that.

 

[Sky King]

Thompson has been pretty successful at drafting players over his tenure. It's a myth that he has found a ton of undrafted gems though...

He's been half-successful and the most recent half has been a disappointment, per Dougherty:
http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...ugherty-packers-drafts-missing-mark/94285504/

 

[ARPackFan]

I saw this on PFT. At the college ranks when the AD endorse a coach under fire it is usually the kiss of death. I don't know what to make of this.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...nt-disappointed-but-not-ready-to-fire-people/

 

[gonzozab]

If we hear boos while watching, I won't blame one fan for doing that.

We've already heard them twice this year.

 

[Mondio]

I saw this on PFT. At the college ranks when the AD endorse a coach under fire it is usually the kiss of death. I don't know what to make of this.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...nt-disappointed-but-not-ready-to-fire-people/

I think it just means there's still a good chunk of games left to play and nobody is getting canned now. It's not the time, and those on the hottest seats have time to turn things around. They'll assess it all when the season is over and move on from this season.

 

[Packerlifer]

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2...plenty-on-the-line-over-next-6-games-nfl-2016

 

[Forget Favre]

We've already heard them twice this year.

You know things have changed when Favre gets the cheers and the team gets the boos.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Will definitely be interesting to see how many empty seats are at the next home game. Listening to sports radio etc, fans are as angry as ever.

I don't expect there to be more empty seats than during other hone games the rest of the season.

He's been half-successful and the most recent half has been a disappointment, per Dougherty:
http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...ugherty-packers-drafts-missing-mark/94285504/

As I've mentioned repeatedly over the last few weeks the Packers rank fourth in average career approximate value out of draft picks since Thompson took over in 2005. I'm well aware it's not aperfect metric but the best I could come up with.

 

[JBlood]

I don't like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

The baby grew up a long time ago. Capers hasn't coached a top defense since 2010. In 2011 we had the 25th ranked defense (by DVOA) on a 15 and 1 team. It, and the run to the Championship in 2010, probably convinced MM that we could win with an offense run by AR combined with a "big play defense" which is Capers' forte. It isn't working. I'm not discounting injury as a factor this year, but our defense hasn't been a top 10 defense since 2010. If we're serious about another Championship something has to change.

 

[JBlood]

He's been half-successful and the most recent half has been a disappointment, per Dougherty:
http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...ugherty-packers-drafts-missing-mark/94285504/

Thompson turned the team around more quickly than anyone thought possible from the disaster he inherited from Sherman. But I've come around to my youngest son's criticism of him for the last 4 years. Seems to be time for a change.

 

[Sky King]

...As I've mentioned repeatedly over the last few weeks the Packers rank fourth in average career approximate value out of draft picks since Thompson took over in 2005. I'm well aware it's not aperfect metric but the best I could come up with.

The metric is not in question. Thompson's earlier years drafting supports that metric as do the latter years. What Dougherty appears to be saying is that Thompson's drafting success has tailed-off in recent years - that the team's performance has declined in conjunction with the decline of Thompson's success in the draft.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

While I'd put the chances of it happening at something less than 50%... I would say that if The Packers decide to let Thompson go, that it is more than likely a new GM will bring in a new head coach as well. This would not be my choice since I actually think McCarthy can still coach if he is given some talent, however most GMs will want their own guy.

I think that'd depend on if you hire in or out of house. If someone like Elliot Wolf who's been here a while and knows how things are done around here is hired in TT's place, I could see him keeping MM, though perhaps changing out Capers for someone new. If we're going completely out of house to someone who's running their own show, then yeah I could see that. I'm just thinking Mark Murphy, and to lesser extent even Harlan who still sometimes offers his consulting would be looking for someone whose philosophy meshes with what they and the board want here. I don't think they'd force a new GM to keep MM, but it's not entirely out of the question, considering when the Detroit Lions kicked their GM out last year, the new guy wanted to keep Caldwell.

 

[Mavster]

TT and Dom aren't a good gm/dc combo imo. Dom runs a pretty complex scheme that would be better suited for a team with veteran players on defense, versus a revolving door of young "talent" (that lately haven't been developing enough)

 

[Packer Brother]

I don't expect there to be more empty seats than during other hone games the rest of the season.



As I've mentioned repeatedly over the last few weeks the Packers rank fourth in average career approximate value out of draft picks since Thompson took over in 2005. I'm well aware it's not aperfect metric but the best I could come up with.

They've had decreased demand from brown county folks. Not mentioning 200 people decided against becoming season ticket holders last season.

http://fox11online.com/news/local/green-bay/700-packers-fans-become-season-ticket-holders