I am shocked!

[NelsonsLongCatch]

and Manning this year was an anchor around that team, on the field and on the cap. When talib was a FA, we had Shields and Tramon, both considered to be some of the better DB's in the game. I think Peppers is as good as Ware. Ward would have been nice, but i'm not sure when he was available and when we made our financial commitment to Burnett and drafted Dix, who I think is turning out nicely after having quite a few criticisms of him early.

it's easy to pick players, but when you factor everything in, how easy is it? I don't think talib is anything more than what we have right now, randall included. he has the benefit of better LB'ers, probably a slight up tick on DL and Von Miller, who nobody on our roster has taken over a game like he has, playing in front of him.

If you're responding to me, I honestly have no idea what you're saying. I wasn't advocating the Packers using free agency to sign Peyton Manning or Talib or anything of the sort.

Point of my post was this: A team that drafts well can use free agency to fill a small amount of holes on the team. The Broncos realized they were a handful of players away from winning a Super Bowl and used free agency to fill those holes. I believe many fans see the Packers in the same boat. A championship caliber team that drafted well, but should use free agency to fill holes at inside linebacker and tight end.

DISCLAIMER: I am in no way saying the Packers should "break the bank" and sign tons of free agents and ruin their cap. I am also in no way discounting Ted Thompson or saying Ted Thompson is bad GM.

 

[Mondio]

The point being, Denver signed some guys at positions we didn't really have dire needs to upgrade. The point is saying " use free agency" is easy when you don't have to consider players needed, players available, cost both present and future, what FA players might consider in finding a team, what the plans are for the entire team, who we've just committed to, who we are planning on committing too, and the money involved there.

Denver seemed to have gotten some that apparently helped put them over the top, but I'd argue that not a single soul on either side of the ball had anywhere near the impact that their #2 draft pick had, and it's not even close. And even with that, if the steelers have a serviceable RB or Brown for that game, Denver might not even make it out of round 1.

I certainly don't remember too many Von Miller type players available to us at TE it ILB in FA last year

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Denver seemed to have gotten some that apparently helped put them over the top, but I'd argue that not a single soul on either side of the ball had anywhere near the impact that their #2 draft pick had, and it's not even close. And even with that, if the steelers have a serviceable RB or Brown for that game, Denver might not even make it out of round 1.

Nobody is arguing that the draft is by far the best way to build the foundation of a succesful team. Free agency should be used to selectively address positions of need though.

I certainly don't remember too many Von Miller type players available to us at TE it ILB in FA last year

It doesn´t have to be a Von Miller type of player though to put us over the top but I´m absolutely convinced there would have been an inside linebacker available over the last four years who would have been an upgrade over the Packers ILBs. The same is true for tight ends since Finley went down.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree with Captain, ILB which represents almost 19% of your starting defensive personnel, has been our Achilles heel on defense for quite some time and its time to address it with a real fix. A real fix does not include diluting the strength of your OLB position by moving your best OLB inside or hoping to score an immediate starter with a 4th round or later pick. Imagine if our wide receiving unit was this weak over such a long period of time.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

The point being, Denver signed some guys at positions we didn't really have dire needs to upgrade. The point is saying " use free agency" is easy when you don't have to consider players needed, players available, cost both present and future, what FA players might consider in finding a team, what the plans are for the entire team, who we've just committed to, who we are planning on committing too, and the money involved there.

Denver seemed to have gotten some that apparently helped put them over the top, but I'd argue that not a single soul on either side of the ball had anywhere near the impact that their #2 draft pick had, and it's not even close. And even with that, if the steelers have a serviceable RB or Brown for that game, Denver might not even make it out of round 1.

I certainly don't remember too many Von Miller type players available to us at TE it ILB in FA last year

That's the idea of my entire post. Draft well and supplement with free agency. Draft Von Miller and sign DeMarcus Ware in free agency. Draft Demarious Thomas and sign Emmanuel Sanders in free agency.

 

[PackerDNA]

Simple stuff. Utilize all tools to maximize chances of success. No excuse not too; to not do so is negligence.
Interesting thing about Denver. They get blown out in the SB with the highest scoring offence in history. Two years later, Elway reinvents the team, winning the SB with the focus on a dominant defense.

 

[Mondio]

who doesn't want better ILB's stand up and raise your hand. Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?

It's easy to see we need one, what isn't easy it just playing fantasy football. I know it's a damn shame we didn't sign brandon spikes last year. Dirty, dirty shame. Or a twice retired, facing suspension, headcase in McClain. I can't believe we don't commit money to those guys, and instead signed top tier FA's like Cobb and Bulaga.

anyway, the merry go round is getting old. So, do you think defense was the problem last year? is that why we didn't win a super bowl? and bring up Denver all you want, NONE of those FA's had anywhere near the impact their #2 pick in the draft did in that game, and a game they almost didn't make it too.

and do you honestly think Thompson doesn't know football? Do you think he doesn't know how to evaluate talent? Do you think he doesn't know how to find guys that know how to evaluate football players? Do you think he really just doesn't want to find a linebacker so you guys can have something to complain about? Do you think he doesn't consider all the variables and cover his bases when making decisions? What do you think his motive is for not wanting us to be competitive?

Denvers "reinvention" almost came up short, then how smart would it seem, and even as it stands they have done exactly what Green Bay and Ted Thompson have done. And when they get bounced in the playoffs next year, if they even make them, nobody will care and instead will be using whatever team has won it as the example. It will be ok for them to win one and then not. If it's Green Bay, he'll be blamed for not winning more.

 

[Crockett&Tubbs]

who doesn't want better ILB's stand up and raise your hand. Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?

It's easy to see we need one, what isn't easy it just playing fantasy football. I know it's a damn shame we didn't sign brandon spikes last year. Dirty, dirty shame. Or a twice retired, facing suspension, headcase in McClain. I can't believe we don't commit money to those guys, and instead signed top tier FA's like Cobb and Bulaga.

anyway, the merry go round is getting old. So, do you think defense was the problem last year? is that why we didn't win a super bowl? and bring up Denver all you want, NONE of those FA's had anywhere near the impact their #2 pick in the draft did in that game, and a game they almost didn't make it too.

and do you honestly think Thompson doesn't know football? Do you think he doesn't know how to evaluate talent? Do you think he doesn't know how to find guys that know how to evaluate football players? Do you think he really just doesn't want to find a linebacker so you guys can have something to complain about? Do you think he doesn't consider all the variables and cover his bases when making decisions? What do you think his motive is for not wanting us to be competitive?

Denvers "reinvention" almost came up short, then how smart would it seem, and even as it stands they have done exactly what Green Bay and Ted Thompson have done. And when they get bounced in the playoffs next year, if they even make them, nobody will care and instead will be using whatever team has won it as the example. It will be ok for them to win one and then not. If it's Green Bay, he'll be blamed for not winning more.

We all have to admit we never have or will be the big free agent spenders, or the aggressive traders (Seattle getting Marshawn, & Jimmy Graham), New England (Randy Moss 2007).

But Ted has to be able to diversify and find a way to bolster the team wherever and whenever possible. It doesn't always have to be with college kids drafted or undrafted. There are deals to be had. On NFL players who have shown the ability to play in this league, which is more than you can say about any college kid. It's a different game from college to the NFL.

As the Patriots and Seahawks are doing, so did Ron Wolf.
For the under 30's here, google the names of Keith Jackson, Don Beebe, Santana Dotson, Sean Jones, Don Beebe, Eugene Robinson, Desmond Howard, and of course Reggie White.

Here are 2 potential bargains at ILB.
They might set the world on fire. They might not. One might.

But, unquestionably, they will be better in there than we saw last year from Nate Palmer, Joe Thomas, and for sure Jake Ryan (at least covering fast RBs).
Did I mention they will be actually easily affordable? That means realistic and guys who could be signed if TT decided to stray from his draft & develop only technique a bit. Also wouldn't cost him any draft picks!

I bet you I could get both Sean Weatherspoon and Mason Foster to the Packers for a total of under $3 million/yr. And quite possibly for under $2m a year total.

#84 overall pick by Tampa Bay in 2011 draft, MASON FOSTER- http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...n-foster-atlanta-falcons-chicago-bears-030415

#19 overall pick by Atlanta in 2010 draft, SEAN WEATHERSPOON- http://www.newerascouting.com/2010/02/11/sean-weatherspoon-scouting-report/

For the price and possible payoff, these guys are worth the risk. These are guys who will make the ILBs better, allow Clay to move outside, and won't break any bank. Even if they turn into the next Hannibal Navies, Freddy Strickland, Marquand Manuel, or Chukie Nwokorie for the Packers, which they will not barring injuries.

 

[PackerDNA]

Got to step out, so I'll reply later. But before I reply, I'd like to know if Mondio's post was in response to my post- #181.

 

[Mondio]

first, just ditch Ron Wolf already, you know how many super bowls he won? 1, singular, uno, that's it. Just 1, with a real HOF QB, just nominated in fact. and when you listen to him talk, the main reason he got out was he could no longer ask the question "what guy helps our team" he had to go ask the cap guy first if they could afford him. He knew at that point it was time to hang 'em up.

The Patriots are good, they had the same problem as GB last year basically in that their offensive line wasn't very good, but in the past decade, nobody has been better. Excpetions don't prove rules, but since Ted has been in charge, they have the same amount of Super Bowl wins. Why do they get 10 years without a superbowl win? But Ted only gets 5?

The Seahawks? I guess we'll see, I don't think they're getting better after a brief stint at being good. But we'll see they still have some room to work.

and this year, if the FA's stay the same is a much better year than last year in terms of what this team needs. Maybe something happens, maybe not, I do think we'll be in the playoffs and in the hunt for a super bowl however it goes down. It's funny to read the reactions from the press over in the city where they JUST won a super bowl.

 

[Mondio]

Got to step out, so I'll reply later. But before I reply, I'd like to know if Mondio's post was in response to my post- #181.

No

 

[PackerDNA]

No

All good, buddy. You make some good points, I feel I have some counterpoints, but they'll have to wait. Even after all these years, the food still won't shop for itself, the laundry won't do itself, and the truck won't put gas in itself.
Lazy bastards.

 

[longtimefan]

Does Denver win the SB with out von miller

 

[Crockett&Tubbs]

Does Denver win the SB with out von miller

I would say NO, although this is obviously a hypothetical.
It goes to show how much of a difference it made 2 Super Bowls ago when Seattle clobbered Denver, with Von Miller out, and no Demarcus Ware there yet.

Miller was a premium blue chip, #2 overall pick for a reason.
I am most impressed by him still being great despite the ACL, and being an edge guy who uses hard cuts, agility, to come around the edge.

I hope Jordy is able to bounce back the same.....

 

[Mondio]

outside of a guy in Houston, I haven't seen any defender take control of a game like Miller did last season, or in the Superbowl. And Houston has been picking defenders high in the draft forever it seems.

and I don't think there's any chance Denver wins that game without Miller, i think it would have ended up more like the the last Superbowl with Seattle than ending up like it did.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's easy to see we need one, what isn't easy it just playing fantasy football. I know it's a damn shame we didn't sign brandon spikes last year. Dirty, dirty shame. Or a twice retired, facing suspension, headcase in McClain. I can't believe we don't commit money to those guys, and instead signed top tier FA's like Cobb and Bulaga.

Please stop acting as if the Packers have lacked talent at inside linebacker for only a year. It has been nealy four years since Bishop went down and the position has been in dire need of an upgrade. Thompson deserves being blamed for not being able to provide any improvement there over that period.

The Patriots are good, they had the same problem as GB last year basically in that their offensive line wasn't very good, but in the past decade, nobody has been better. Excpetions don't prove rules, but since Ted has been in charge, they have the same amount of Super Bowl wins. Why do they get 10 years without a superbowl win? But Ted only gets 5?

I think it's ridiculous to ignore the Patriots winning three Super Bowls in four years just prior to the period you're talking about because it fits your argument.

 

[longtimefan]

I would say NO, although this is obviously a hypothetical.
It goes to show how much of a difference it made 2 Super Bowls ago when Seattle clobbered Denver, with Von Miller out, and no Demarcus Ware there yet.

Miller was a premium blue chip, #2 overall pick for a reason.
I am most impressed by him still being great despite the ACL, and being an edge guy who uses hard cuts, agility, to come around the edge.

I hope Jordy is able to bounce back the same.....

Ok--so w/o Von they lose and IMO---prob dont make it to SB--

He was drafted..Thats my point

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Ok--so w/o Von they lose and IMO---prob dont make it to SB--

He was drafted..Thats my point

Too many people are making passionate arguments for points nobody is making. Nobody is saying Miller wasn't the best player on the field. Nobody is saying drafting well doesn't mean anything. The discussion is about supplementing a roster built mostly through the draft with free agents who can actually play. Denver drafted great for a number years with guys like Miller, Wolfe, Williams, Trevathian, ect. on defense. Nobody is saying they didn't.

And your argument is incredibly narrow. Does Miller get singled without Ware on the other side? Does Miller get to rush the passer so often without Talib and Ward in the secondary? Whole defense was great.

 

[longtimefan]

Too many people are making passionate arguments for points nobody is making. Nobody is saying Miller wasn't the best player on the field. Nobody is saying drafting well doesn't mean anything. The discussion is about supplementing a roster built mostly through the draft with free agents who can actually play. Denver drafted great for a number years with guys like Miller, Wolfe, Williams, Trevathian, ect. on defense. Nobody is saying they didn't.

And your argument is incredibly narrow. Does Miller get singled without Ware on the other side? Does Miller get to rush the passer so often without Talib and Ward in the secondary? Whole defense was great.

I love how people twist words...I stated that he was drafted, and w/o him they dont make the SB--So in this case of the Broncos IMO (since it didnt seem to stick before--this is MY opinion) They dont make the SB..and the free agents they signed didnt matter...

That doesnt mean other teams will succeed the same way, or fall flat.. Just for the 2015-2016 Broncos w/o VM they dont make the SB....

 

[Mondio]

And your argument is incredibly narrow. Does Miller get singled without Ware on the other side? Does Miller get to rush the passer so often without Talib and Ward in the secondary? Whole defense was great.

I think Ward is a tick better than we we have for safeties. I don't think Talib would be our best CB on GB at all even when we were SHields and Tramon as the starters. I think Peppers is as good as Ware. I think Clay is good, I don't think he is Von Miller. I think everyone on that defense looks better because of Von Miller, especially the guys on the backside of that pass defense.

and in the end WE underperformed this year. They just flat out did. None of them played to the level we've seen them all play at before. Not Rodgers, Not Cobb, Not adams, Not Lacy, not any of them. If last season doesn't happen, and we're just looking at the roster at the beginning of the year again, there isn't hardly anybody that doesn't think this roster isn't capable of a Superbowl. Every season is filled with what if's, and we're not that far off.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

I think Ward is a tick better than we we have for safeties. I don't think Talib would be our best CB on GB at all even when we were SHields and Tramon as the starters. I think Peppers is as good as Ware. I think Clay is good, I don't think he is Von Miller. I think everyone on that defense looks better because of Von Miller, especially the guys on the backside of that pass defense.

and in the end WE underperformed this year. They just flat out did. None of them played to the level we've seen them all play at before. Not Rodgers, Not Cobb, Not adams, Not Lacy, not any of them. If last season doesn't happen, and we're just looking at the roster at the beginning of the year again, there isn't hardly anybody that doesn't think this roster isn't capable of a Superbowl. Every season is filled with what if's, and we're not that far off.

Why do you keep playing this Packers vs. Broncos game? I'm not comparing the Packers and Broncos. I'm talking strictly Broncos and the moves the Broncos made in past three seasons to win the Super Bowl.

Also, "WE" didn't under-perform this year. I had a great year. No regrets.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

I love how people twist words...I stated that he was drafted, and w/o him they dont make the SB--So in this case of the Broncos IMO (since it didnt seem to stick before--this is MY opinion) They dont make the SB..and the free agents they signed didnt matter...

That doesnt mean other teams will succeed the same way, or fall flat.. Just for the 2015-2016 Broncos w/o VM they dont make the SB....

What words are being twisted?

Very profound thoughts! That's like saying the Patriots don't win the Super Bowl last year w/o drafting Tom Brady. Or the Seahwaks don't win the Super Bowl without Russel Wilson. The Ravens drafted Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. The Packers drafted Rodgers and Matthews. This game is fun!

 

[Mondio]

Why do you keep playing this Packers vs. Broncos game? I'm not comparing the Packers and Broncos. I'm talking strictly Broncos and the moves the Broncos made in past three seasons to win the Super Bowl.

Also, "WE" didn't under-perform this year. I had a great year. No regrets.

why? because everyone says WE should be doing it more like the Broncos did. That's been the common theme since about week 7-8 this year (fill in Seahawks, patriots, etc) until a winner was finally declared. and I also had a great year, but it is also not unusual for a fan or fan base to refer to their team as "we". I full understand I don't take any snaps for the team.

their moves in the past 3 seasons hasn't won them anything more than Ted and the moves in GB haven't already done, so was it worth it? This year of course, and like most winners, it almost wasn't. Seriously a made PAT by the Pats and they don't turn down a FG late in the game, they take the points and Denver had no offense. Or if the Steelers don't lose a few major players the week before and have a 3rd or 4th string RB fumble, Denver is probably done round 1.

But like all teams fortunate enough to win a super bowl, us included, things went their way. We'll see if they get any chances going forward. Elway is going to have to earn his money that's for sure.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

why? because everyone says WE should be doing it more like the Broncos did. That's been the common theme since about week 7-8 this year (fill in Seahawks, patriots, etc) until a winner was finally declared. and I also had a great year, but it is also not unusual for a fan or fan base to refer to their team as "we". I full understand I don't take any snaps for the team.

their moves in the past 3 seasons hasn't won them anything more than Ted and the moves in GB haven't already done, so was it worth it? This year of course, and like most winners, it almost wasn't. Seriously a made PAT by the Pats and they don't turn down a FG late in the game, they take the points and Denver had no offense. Or if the Steelers don't lose a few major players the week before and have a 3rd or 4th string RB fumble, Denver is probably done round 1.

But like all teams fortunate enough to win a super bowl, us included, things went their way. We'll see if they get any chances going forward. Elway is going to have to earn his money that's for sure.

So many "ifs" discussed in this thread.

• If LeVeon Bell was healthy
• If the Patriots make a PAT
• If Von Miller was never drafted

Winning the SB (and any other Championship) takes a little bit of luck.

 

[longtimefan]

What words are being twisted?

Very profound thoughts! That's like saying the Patriots don't win the Super Bowl last year w/o drafting Tom Brady. Or the Seahwaks don't win the Super Bowl without Russel Wilson. The Ravens drafted Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. The Packers drafted Rodgers and Matthews. This game is fun!

Not sure why you have this need to act so childish..

Replace Von Miller with Nate Palmer..The result the same?

Again my ONLY point is w/o VM, Broncos arent in the SB--Nothing to do with the rest of the defense or the FA they signed or who else they drafted..

I believe VM was so GREAT in the playoffs that is why they won the SB.