Green Bay Packers and Defending the Read Option

[Carl]

Who said anything about apples?

If I didn't know any better, I'd guess that Oski hacked your account. You play him perfectly.

 

[NOMOFO]

You play him perfectly.

FINALLY something we can agree on.

 

[mradtke66]

I'm reasonably confident that Matthews crashing down was the play call. The defense is the "scrape and exchange," where the End (which is what Matthews is in nickel, for this discussion) crashes down taking out the running back. The linebacker, Hawk or Lattimore/Jones, scrapes behind him and is responsible for the quarterback.

It's the "backwards" way of how much of us who played against the option in high school, where the End has contain/the quarterback.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/image...2013-05-13at1.11.29PM_original.png?1368468969

Why does scrape and exchange work? Why is it at least sometimes preferred? I honestly don't know, I need to read more. My gut tells me that it puts the end into a better position to rush the passer, should the play call be "read-option-play action," but I could be wrong.

The other thing we could do is bring our safeties into the box and trust our corners to not be burnt deep in man-to-man. Against the 49ers, where Kappernick hasn't consistently shown himself as a pocket passer with great touch, I might take that gamble...if Shields and Tramon were both healthy. Against Carolina, I wouldn't call Cover-0 nearly as much, because Cam is a more accurate deep thrower.

 

[NOMOFO]

I'm reasonably confident that Matthews crashing down was the play call. The defense is the "scrape and exchange," where the End (which is what Matthews is in nickel, for this discussion) crashes down taking out the running back. The linebacker, Hawk or Lattimore/Jones, scrapes behind him and is responsible for the quarterback.

It's the "backwards" way of how much of us who played against the option in high school, where the End has contain/the quarterback.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/image...2013-05-13at1.11.29PM_original.png?1368468969

Why does scrape and exchange work? Why is it at least sometimes preferred? I honestly don't know, I need to read more. My gut tells me that it puts the end into a better position to rush the passer, should the play call be "read-option-play action," but I could be wrong.

The other thing we could do is bring our safeties into the box and trust our corners to not be burnt deep in man-to-man. Against the 49ers, where Kappernick hasn't consistently shown himself as a pocket passer with great touch, I might take that gamble...if Shields and Tramon were both healthy. Against Carolina, I wouldn't call Cover-0 nearly as much, because Cam is a more accurate deep thrower.

We're limited because of our LB. Hawk generally plays larger than his size but that doesn't say much. It's amusing watching him try to take on a legit block anywhere on the field.

 

[El Guapo]

They said he got hurt and looked slow at the end of the game.

I'm going to quote Bob McGinn instead of the Sportscenter folks:

Cam Newton took over the Carolina offense Sunday, leading the underdog Panthers to a 37-37 overtime tie against the Bengals in Cincinnati.

After rushing just 14 times in his first four games of the season, Newton carried 17 times for 107 yards.

Eleven of those attempts (for 70 yards) came in the fourth quarter and overtime. It was all Newton, sometimes keeping it on the zone read, other times on quarterback draws and then just running away from the rush on scrambles.

Carolina coach Ron Rivera had been reluctant to expose Newton because of the surgery on his left ankle in the off-season and the cracked ribs that he suffered in August.

With Newton feeling stronger every week and the Panthers bereft of capable running backs, Rivera threw caution to the wind. It was the Newton of 2010, when he rushed for 1,473 yards and 20 touchdowns for national champion Auburn, and of the last three seasons when he averaged 121 carries for 677 yards (5.6) and nine touchdowns.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-next-opponent-panthers-b99370817z1-279236362.html

 

[mradtke66]

We're limited because of our LB. Hawk generally plays larger than his size but that doesn't say much. It's amusing watching him try to take on a legit block anywhere on the field.

Well, the scraping linebacker shouldn't be taking on too many blocks when he's responsible for contain. A fast, sideline to sideline player should be able to get over and make the tackle.

Which bugs me so much with Jones--he has the kind of speed to do it, but he can't put it together.

 

[PFanCan]

Who said anything about apples?

That actually made me laugh out loud. Startled the dog.

Perfect response, Nomo.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If the Packers dedicate Peppers or CM3 to Cam Newton then it's effectively Carolina's 10 vs. Green Bay's 10. THAT is why I suggested moving CM3 inside to ILB and putting Neal or Perry at OLB, dedicated to containing Newton and forcing the run inside. CM3 could unleash his fury on the RB or rush from the inside.

Letting Newton run wild is NOT an option, but choosing which of GB's player(s) will keep that from happening IS an option for Capers. I'd rather have CM3 at ILB being part of EVERY play than keeping him at OLB while Brad Jones wiffs on his responsibilities inside.

I don´t see any benefit of moving Matthews to ILB as you would take away his biggest asset not allowing him to rush the QB on every passing play. I don´t want to see Brad Jones playing inside either but CM3 shouldn´t be the guy to replace him.

Regarding the read-option he has to keep containment and trust other players to make the play if they don´t run to his gap.

 

[Pkrjones]

My line of thinking was that if Neal or Perry manned the OLB spot AND kept contain and/or forced the read-option hand-off most of the time then CM3 would be involved with almost every play. He would be rushing EVERY play into a gap and either meeting the RB in the hole or backfield OR pressuring from an inside lane. His gap responsibility could/should be changed every play with the DL's and Hawk's gap responsibilities changed, also (with DL's slants).

This might even allow CM3 to create more havoc by being able to jump around and cause mis-calls by their OL, knowing that CM3 was coming, but not knowing from which gap. CM3 would be rushing every play, just from a variety of gaps between the tackles. Many of Newton's runs last week were between the tackles, so why keep him outside when Carolina does their damage inside (our weak spot)?

 

[mradtke66]

My line of thinking was that if Neal or Perry manned the OLB spot AND kept contain and/or forced the read-option hand-off most of the time then CM3 would be involved with almost every play. He would be rushing EVERY play into a gap and either meeting the RB in the hole or backfield OR pressuring from an inside lane. His gap responsibility could/should be changed every play with the DL's and Hawk's gap responsibilities changed, also (with DL's slants).

This might even allow CM3 to create more havoc by being able to jump around and cause mis-calls by their OL, knowing that CM3 was coming, but not knowing from which gap. CM3 would be rushing every play, just from a variety of gaps between the tackles. Many of Newton's runs last week were between the tackles, so why keep him outside when Carolina does their damage inside (our weak spot)?

It would allow Matthews to be involved with every rushing play. It would take him out of approximately 70% of passing plays.

Capers blitzes about 30% of the time. They could send Matthews as an ILB more often, but then one of the other guys needs to be dropping into coverage. That sounds like a problem or net-loss to me.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My line of thinking was that if Neal or Perry manned the OLB spot AND kept contain and/or forced the read-option hand-off most of the time then CM3 would be involved with almost every play. He would be rushing EVERY play into a gap and either meeting the RB in the hole or backfield OR pressuring from an inside lane. His gap responsibility could/should be changed every play with the DL's and Hawk's gap responsibilities changed, also (with DL's slants).

This might even allow CM3 to create more havoc by being able to jump around and cause mis-calls by their OL, knowing that CM3 was coming, but not knowing from which gap. CM3 would be rushing every play, just from a variety of gaps between the tackles. Many of Newton's runs last week were between the tackles, so why keep him outside when Carolina does their damage inside (our weak spot)?

As mradtke correctly pointed out that would take Matthews out of most passing plays as Capers blitzes on 35.7% this season. That number includes safeties and corner blitzes as well though.

 

[Ogsponge]

I'm reasonably confident that Matthews crashing down was the play call. The defense is the "scrape and exchange," where the End (which is what Matthews is in nickel, for this discussion) crashes down taking out the running back. The linebacker, Hawk or Lattimore/Jones, scrapes behind him and is responsible for the quarterback.

It's the "backwards" way of how much of us who played against the option in high school, where the End has contain/the quarterback.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/image...2013-05-13at1.11.29PM_original.png?1368468969

Why does scrape and exchange work? Why is it at least sometimes preferred? I honestly don't know, I need to read more. My gut tells me that it puts the end into a better position to rush the passer, should the play call be "read-option-play action," but I could be wrong.

The other thing we could do is bring our safeties into the box and trust our corners to not be burnt deep in man-to-man. Against the 49ers, where Kappernick hasn't consistently shown himself as a pocket passer with great touch, I might take that gamble...if Shields and Tramon were both healthy. Against Carolina, I wouldn't call Cover-0 nearly as much, because Cam is a more accurate deep thrower.

You are, in my opinion, 100% correct in your assessment. As I mentioned in my OP, I had already written a short novel on the matter so I tried to not go into every last detail I could about this which i why i suggested people actually did some reading on the matter.

I believe the reason why they do this is so the defensive call can be disguised and, if executed properly by the defense, can nullify or at the very least contain the read option. The problem in this scenario is, relying on Brad Jones to do anything properly is becoming a thorn in the Packers defense's side.

 

[TJV]

I'm reasonably confident that Matthews crashing down was the play call. The defense is the "scrape and exchange," where the End (which is what Matthews is in nickel, for this discussion) crashes down taking out the running back.

When I look at the beginning of that play I don't see an indication from either Clay or Jones that it's a scrape and exchange. Clay isn't crashing down full speed, he's reading (incorrectly) as he goes inside. If it were a scrape and exchange IMO Clay would have gotten to the RB. And Jones doesn't go hard at the edge at all as he would if that were the call. Jones misses tackles and struggles in coverage (although he got his helmet in place to deflect that pass while Hawk probably wouldn't have), but he has not had problems knowing the schemes and calls.

I understand the hesitance to criticize Clay but IMO, just as recognizing Rodgers struggled early in the season, there's nothing wrong with it. And unless the groin injury is really bothering him, I expect Clay to rebound.