Goodbye Crosby?!

[OldSchool101]

Some more recent evidence eluding to finances being the primary cause of moving on from Crosby… from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel;
(May 20, 2023):


At the NFL owners meetings in March, Gutekunst praised Crosby for his play in 2022, but said the team's salary cap situation could keep Crosby off the roster.

“We’ll never close the door,” Gutekunst said. “We’ll kind of see where that goes. Mason is the all-time leading scorer in this franchise’s history; he had a good year this past year. Again, we’re limited a little bit financially, but we’d never say never.”

 

[Deleted member 6794]

This tells me Mason is doing a better job with his kicks, because they must be higher, therefore making it more difficult to return. Something that doesn't show in the stats themselves.

Actually, Crosby ranked dead last among the 32 kickers with the most kickoff attempts in hang time as well.

 

[Firethorn1001]

With the passing of the new kickoff rule (for a 1 year trial), wonder if that will help Crosby find work if people were concerned about kickoffs with him. No longer necessary to get it to the end zone to force a touchback, getting it to the 5 is good enough.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With the passing of the new kickoff rule (for a 1 year trial), wonder if that will help Crosby find work if people were concerned about kickoffs with him. No longer necessary to get it to the end zone to force a touchback, getting it to the 5 is good enough.

As long as he can pop them up and get them deeper than the 20, the new rule should favor him.

For those that didn't hear the new rule:

The NFL has passed a new rule instituting all fair catches and touchbacks come out to the 25-yard line on kickoffs, source said. Now the same as the college rule, the thought is that this should make it safer, though special teams coaches around the league oppose the change.

 

[Pkrjones]

With the passing of the new kickoff rule (for a 1 year trial), wonder if that will help Crosby find work if people were concerned about kickoffs with him. No longer necessary to get it to the end zone to force a touchback, getting it to the 5 is good enough.

Using @OldSchool101 's stat on the previous page of average KO return distance of 22.85 yds any sane ST coach would tell their returner to field it at the 5 & run... giving an "average" starting position near the 28 yd. line.

 

[OldSchool101]

Using @OldSchool101 's stat on the previous page of average KO return distance of 22.85 yds any sane ST coach would tell their returner to field it at the 5 & run... giving an "average" starting position near the 28 yd. line.

That previous measurement was across a season. I’d agree on a singular Kickoff, but Was our average Kickoff distance their 5? Idk

I would think if I caught it at the 5 yardline without being covered up I’d naturally return it regardless of who was Kicking.
There’s probably lots more that goes into that equation such as current success rates of my team and my opponent. There’s possibility to get a big return and also possibility to fumble it in my own Redzone

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Using @OldSchool101 's stat on the previous page of average KO return distance of 22.85 yds any sane ST coach would tell their returner to field it at the 5 & run... giving an "average" starting position near the 28 yd. line.

That previous measurement was across a season. Was our average Kickoff distance their 5? Idk

I think hang time of a kick is just as important as distance. I've seen kickers with legs that were strong enough to kick it into the endzone, choose to pop it up and get it short of the EZ, to force a return. Saw that quite a bit against the Packers when their return unit sucked. That option will probably disappear, since it will just result in a FC and the ball on the 25. I would rather see the kickoff team be rewarded. A kicked ball into or out of the EZ and not returned, puts it at the 20. A FC ball, start at the 15.

 

[rmontro]

The NFL has passed a new rule instituting all fair catches and touchbacks come out to the 25-yard line on kickoffs, source said. Now the same as the college rule, the thought is that this should make it safer, though special teams coaches around the league oppose the change.

Sounds like a crummy rule.

 

[DoURant]

I'm all for safety, but I don't like this rule in the NFL.

 

[OldSchool101]

If they want to make it safer. Put the players in individual, padded cages. Lane departure warnings.. theft deterrent alarms for anyone trying to steal the football.. the whole 9 yards

NFL crumple zones!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

With the passing of the new kickoff rule (for a 1 year trial), wonder if that will help Crosby find work if people were concerned about kickoffs with him. No longer necessary to get it to the end zone to force a touchback, getting it to the 5 is good enough.

It will be interesting to see how many returners end up using the option to fair catch the ball outside of the end zone. I highly doubt a lot of them will do that at the 5-yard line, especially considering they have been returning a lot from some yards deep in the end zone.

I would rather see the kickoff team be rewarded. A kicked ball into or out of the EZ and not returned, puts it at the 20. A FC ball, start at the 15.

The NFL wants to make the game safer. With kickoff returns being the most dangerous play in football there's no way they will reward teams for returning them.

 

[lambeaulambo]

what is this turning into? propour football with penalty kicks? if the kicker cannot kick it into the end zone, he shouldn't be in the nfl to begin with.

 

[Voyageur]

For the last 20 or so years, there have been teams that have wanted to totally eliminate kick off returns, and simply put the ball on the 20 or 25 yard-line. The only reason it hasn't happen is that you lose the on-side kick, which can be interesting.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

For the last 20 or so years, there have been teams that have wanted to totally eliminate kick off returns, and simply put the ball on the 20 or 25 yard-line. The only reason it hasn't happen is that you lose the on-side kick, which can be interesting.

I wonder how many of those same teams want to eliminate punts too? I would love to see the stats on injuries during kickoffs, punts and all other situations for that matter. Seems like you get some major collisions on punts with gunners coming full speed into the return man. Football is a violent sport, watering it down too much is going to change the game and maybe how fans perceive it.

If kickoffs are eliminated and there is no adjustment for the possibility of an onside kick type situation, the Sport loses one of the more exciting situations of a potential comeback at the end of a game.

I guess the fair catch rule is potentially the happy median. The onside kick can still happen and if a team feels kick returns are dangerous, they will just tell their returners to always signal for a FC.

 

[Pkrjones]

I wonder how many of those same teams want to eliminate punts too? I would love to see the stats on injuries during kickoffs, punts and all other situations for that matter. Seems like you get some major collisions on punts with gunners coming full speed into the return man.

Punts are a critical, game changing play for a team to flip the field, whereas kickoffs are now a "formality". Yes, an occasional kickoff return is exciting & can change a game, but those instances are few & far between. Punting can change a game, when an offense is struggling a good/great punt forces the other team to start deep in their own territory, giving team A's defense a chance to make a stop or turnover greatly helping team A's struggling offense.

Kickoffs are a play where you can generally hit the bathroom or go load-up your plate in the kitchen & not miss much/anything.

Punts, however, are a strategic play that can frequently change the flow of a game, IMHO.

 

[Mondio]

Punts are a critical, game changing play for a team to flip the field, whereas kickoffs are now a "formality". Yes, an occasional kickoff return is exciting & can change a game, but those instances are few & far between. Punting can change a game, when an offense is struggling a good/great punt forces the other team to start deep in their own territory, giving team A's defense a chance to make a stop or turnover greatly helping team A's struggling offense.

Kickoffs are a play where you can generally hit the bathroom or go load-up your plate in the kitchen & not miss much/anything.

Punts, however, are a strategic play that can frequently change the flow of a game, IMHO.

You missed Desmond's electrifying return that set the tone for that half didn't you

yes, most can be a skipped formality, but they also offer a point for a team that seems out to get back in among other things and the exciting parts are worth it. at least in this football fan's opinion. I fell in love with the game off football, I dislike rendering certain parts pointless through rule changes.

though they've tried to make it as uninteresting as possible, I still think the 100+ yards Nixon gave us against the Vikings after giving up an early punt block and giving them 3 easy points was exciting, and huge in that game.

 

[Pkrjones]

You missed Desmond's electrifying return that set the tone for that half didn't you

yes, most can be a skipped formality, but they also offer a point for a team that seems out to get back in among other things and the exciting parts are worth it. at least in this football fan's opinion. I fell in love with the game off football, I dislike rendering certain parts pointless through rule changes.

though they've tried to make it as uninteresting as possible, I still think the 100+ yards Nixon gave us against the Vikings after giving up an early punt block and giving them 3 easy points was exciting, and huge in that game.

I don't disagree with any of this... BUT if the puppet-masters insist on changing something I'm OK with kickoffs getting messed-with, but leave punts alone.

 

[rmontro]

I would love to see the stats on injuries during kickoffs, punts and all other situations for that matter.

Don't forget OTAs.

 

[OldSchool101]

We should just eliminate the NFL that way no one gets hurt

except there would be personal activities that could cause injury. But we could move the needle to no one leaves the house and that should keep us safe.

 

[gopkrs]

For the last 20 or so years, there have been teams that have wanted to totally eliminate kick off returns, and simply put the ball on the 20 or 25 yard-line. The only reason it hasn't happen is that you lose the on-side kick, which can be interesting.

It's an iconic play imho. Sunday morning and you see them lining up for the kick off. The onside kick should not be so difficult.

 

[gopkrs]

Punts are a critical, game changing play for a team to flip the field, whereas kickoffs are now a "formality". Yes, an occasional kickoff return is exciting & can change a game, but those instances are few & far between. Punting can change a game, when an offense is struggling a good/great punt forces the other team to start deep in their own territory, giving team A's defense a chance to make a stop or turnover greatly helping team A's struggling offense.

Kickoffs are a play where you can generally hit the bathroom or go load-up your plate in the kitchen & not miss much/anything.

Punts, however, are a strategic play that can frequently change the flow of a game, IMHO.

That's only because there's a timeout before that play

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Punts are a critical, game changing play for a team to flip the field, whereas kickoffs are now a "formality". Yes, an occasional kickoff return is exciting & can change a game, but those instances are few & far between. Punting can change a game, when an offense is struggling a good/great punt forces the other team to start deep in their own territory, giving team A's defense a chance to make a stop or turnover greatly helping team A's struggling offense.

Kickoffs are a play where you can generally hit the bathroom or go load-up your plate in the kitchen & not miss much/anything.

Punts, however, are a strategic play that can frequently change the flow of a game, IMHO.

The NFL should think about adopting the XFL's rule for kickoffs.

XFL rule: The kicker lines up at his 30-yard line, with the other 10 members of the kickoff team lining up at the opponent's 35 -- 5 yards away from the returning team. Only the kicker and one returner can move until the ball is fielded. Touchbacks are spotted at the 35-yard line.

NFL rule: Kicking team lines up at its 35-yard line, with eight members of the return team within 15 yards. No double-team blocks allowed. Touchbacks are spotted at the 25-yard line.

The XFL's rule was one of many preserved from the league's 2020 incarnation, and it has continued to hit its goal of maximizing returns and minimizing the incentive for touchbacks while avoiding the high-speed collisions that made the traditional kickoff so dangerous. It takes some getting used to, as 20 players stand still with the ball in the air, but the numbers don't lie: More than 90% of XFL kickoffs have been returned this season, compared to about 40% of NFL kickoffs.

Most XFL teams have blocked these returns like zone running plays, which hasn't led to many long returns. But in Week 5, the St. Louis Battlehawks' Darrius Shepherd reeled off an 80-yard return. The progression followed a similar pattern in Week 5 of the 2020 season, when the Battlehawks used a trick play to record the league's first kickoff return for a touchdown.

The NFL rewrote its kickoff rules in 2018, responding to data that showed the high-speed collisions involved had made concussions five times as likely to happen on kickoffs than on standard offensive or defensive plays. But the rules in essence led to touchbacks being the most likely outcome rather than a return.

If nothing else, the XFL's efforts here demonstrated there are creative ways to preserve the kickoff as a live play while also protecting players from unnecessary risk.

 

[Voyageur]

I can remember the days when the receiving team would form a wedge, and the return man would get behind it, and run like he was following a snow plow, then veer off, to open ground.

I also remember a slew of bodies strewn across the grass, where the wedge had gone, including guys from the wedge.

Then I think about how many guys "got their bell rung," which was the vernacular for concussion in those days, and was treated with two APCs (All Purpose Cures), which was the term given aspirins in the military.

Those guys were playing for enough money to stay in a flop house, and eat what was free at the local taverns, where they'd sit downing a few beers, to chase the pain, nearly every night. Of course, doting fans would buy those beers.

After, football, some were successful in other walks of life, but many of them spent the rest of their lives in abject poverty. Especially those whose football life included getting their bells rung way too often.

Some, just like Junior Seau, decided to end things before it was their time, preferring not to live like a vegetable. In his case, he had the money for care, but when you go back further in time, they didn't.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm all for doing away with kick offs if it will reduce the brain injuries significantly enough to matter for these men to live a fuller life. I'm not particularly interested in sitting in a stadium where the sport is there to kill the competitors.

We need to remember that football is not war. It's a game. It's entertainment. It's not Roman gladiators killing each other in arena, while blood thirsty crowds cheer them on, from the safety of their seat. Like I said, it's a game. Treat it as such.

I guess I'm ready to chuck the whole kick off out, and put the ball on the 20 or 25 yard line, to start each change of possession where kicks would have been involved. But, that does not include punts.

 

[Mondio]

I can remember the days when the receiving team would form a wedge, and the return man would get behind it, and run like he was following a snow plow, then veer off, to open ground.

I also remember a slew of bodies strewn across the grass, where the wedge had gone, including guys from the wedge.

Then I think about how many guys "got their bell rung," which was the vernacular for concussion in those days, and was treated with two APCs (All Purpose Cures), which was the term given aspirins in the military.

Those guys were playing for enough money to stay in a flop house, and eat what was free at the local taverns, where they'd sit downing a few beers, to chase the pain, nearly every night. Of course, doting fans would buy those beers.

After, football, some were successful in other walks of life, but many of them spent the rest of their lives in abject poverty. Especially those whose football life included getting their bells rung way too often.

Some, just like Junior Seau, decided to end things before it was their time, preferring not to live like a vegetable. In his case, he had the money for care, but when you go back further in time, they didn't.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm all for doing away with kick offs if it will reduce the brain injuries significantly enough to matter for these men to live a fuller life. I'm not particularly interested in sitting in a stadium where the sport is there to kill the competitors.

We need to remember that football is not war. It's a game. It's entertainment. It's not Roman gladiators killing each other in arena, while blood thirsty crowds cheer them on, from the safety of their seat. Like I said, it's a game. Treat it as such.

I guess I'm ready to chuck the whole kick off out, and put the ball on the 20 or 25 yard line, to start each change of possession where kicks would have been involved. But, that does not include punts.

if you really want to change it, get rid of anything but a stand up 2 point stance. Any runner or tackler who puts his head down is given an unsportsmanlike the first time and ejected the 2nd. Blow whistles the instant forward motion stops and move the sidelines in or put the hash marks out wider to condense the fields.

Those would do far more than eliminating kickoffs would do in the name of player safety.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Don't forget OTAs.

and practices and street racing and bending over in the shower to pick up the soap and.....