Free Agent WRs (and TEs) in 2023 Discussion...

[Deleted member 6794]

If Hopkins gets cut they need to get him

Are you talking about Deandre Hopkins? First of all I don't believe the Cardinals will cut him. On top of it the Packers would most likely not have enough cap space to sign if it happens.

 

[Snoops]

Are you talking about Deandre Hopkins? First of all I don't believe the Cardinals will cut him. On top of it the Packers would most likely not have enough cap space to sign if it happens.

Yeah I was talking bout him. I heard some sniffles he could be a cap casualty. One could dream if he did get cut

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah I was talking bout him. I heard some sniffles he could be a cap casualty. One could dream if he did get cut

I don't expect the Cardinals to hold on to Hopkins without restructuring his contract as he's set to count $30.75 million against their cap next season. But with them releasing him resulting in $22.6 million of dead money counting against their cap I don't believe they will be interested in moving on from him either.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It will be interesting to see what the Vikings do with Adam Thielen in 2023. I think he is somewhat frustrated with where he has fallen in the pecking order, but is still putting up decent numbers in the process. His Cap hit next year is close to $20M and his dead cap hit would be $13.4M. Maybe a guy who will restructure to help his team or maybe considering his age (32) and him dropping down the food chain in Minnesota, a trade or cut prospect.

How does this effect GB? I doubt the Vikings would ever trade him to the Packers, but if they cut him, I would definitely love to see the Packers pursue him. I don't think he would cost a ton, a very good veteran presence and a very motivated Ex-Viking.

 

[tynimiller]

It will be interesting to see what the Vikings do with Adam Thielen in 2023. I think he is somewhat frustrated with where he has fallen in the pecking order, but is still putting up decent numbers in the process. His Cap hit next year is close to $20M and his dead cap hit would be $13.4M. Maybe a guy who will restructure to help his team or maybe considering his age (32) and him dropping down the food chain in Minnesota, a trade or cut prospect.

How does this effect GB? I doubt the Vikings would ever trade him to the Packers, but if they cut him, I would definitely love to see the Packers pursue him. I don't think he would cost a ton, a very good veteran presence and a very motivated Ex-Viking.

I'd prefer resigning Lazard over Thielen. However, if Lazard cannot be resigned for an appropriate amount and Thielen is cut he is for sure a vet worth looking into for the role we would desire to have him here for us (which is that WR2/3 role). The issue I have is he is a downgrade in blocking IMO over Lazard.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd prefer resigning Lazard over Thielen. However, if Lazard cannot be resigned for an appropriate amount and Thielen is cut he is for sure a vet worth looking into for the role we would desire to have him here for us (which is that WR2/3 role). The issue I have is he is a downgrade in blocking IMO over Lazard.

I never said not to resign Lazard.

For what it is worth, PFF gave both Jefferson and Thielen top 15 grades for blocking last year (article below). Not sure where Lazard sits in that grading, but guessing it is pretty high. Lots of pluses for each player for sure. I think Thielen is the more talented route runner and pass catcher, but Lazard is a better blocker, knows Rodgers and is younger.

Just spitballing and imagining a WR room that included Watson, Thielen, Lazard and Doubs.

Receivers will be key to Minnesota Vikings' new blocking scheme - Sports Illustrated Minnesota Sports, News, Analysis, and More

With 11 personnel on the field more often, receivers must turn into weapons in the run game.

www.si.com

 

[tynimiller]

I never said not to resign Lazard.

For what it is worth, PFF gave both Jefferson and Thielen top 15 grades for blocking last year (article below). Not sure where Lazard sits in that grading, but guessing it is pretty high. Lots of pluses for each player for sure. I think Thielen is the more talented route runner and pass catcher, but Lazard is a better blocker, knows Rodgers and is younger.

Just spitballing and imagining a WR room that included Watson, Thielen, Lazard and Doubs.

Receivers will be key to Minnesota Vikings' new blocking scheme - Sports Illustrated Minnesota Sports, News, Analysis, and More

With 11 personnel on the field more often, receivers must turn into weapons in the run game.

www.si.com

You won't afford both so sadly let's remove that option. Lazard will cost more given his age, and I'm not so sure Theilen is that much better of a guy at getting open now at his age than Lazard...the % of time Lazard catches for a first down or TD illustrates when needed the man can get open.

I love the idea of Adam if Lazard isn't retained or if we don't find another FA...which is a thin crop though as we have all discussed.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You won't afford both so sadly let's remove that option.

Who needs money? Creative contracts for both and just like so many contracts, pushing it forward.

Agree though that the per year cost of signing both might be high, but still a combined less than what teams are paying top WR's. The Packers currently have a very "cheap" receiver cost in their books.

What do you think Lazard will demand? Similar to what the Chiefs paid MVS? Who by the way is having a similar season as he had in Green Bay in 2020, except only 2 TD's with Chiefs, 6 with Packers.

 

[gopkrs]

For what it is worth, PFF gave

Not much

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Just spitballing and imagining a WR room that included Watson, Thielen, Lazard and Doubs.

Receivers will be key to Minnesota Vikings' new blocking scheme - Sports Illustrated Minnesota Sports, News, Analysis, and More

With 11 personnel on the field more often, receivers must turn into weapons in the run game.

www.si.com

What the Packers really need to add at receiver is another speed guy that can help open up the offense if/when Watson misses time. I don't think Watson is particularly injury prone but the massive difference in how this offense functions with a speed threat at receiver versus how much it turns into a ****-and-dunk nightmare with no deep threat is concerning when there is only ONE legitimate deep threat on the team. I'm not saying the Packers need to spend a first-round pick on receiver, but this offense needs deep speed to stress defenses and, with only one guy on the team that can currently do that, I'm not sure that bringing in another slow, sure-handed receiver like Thielen is the way to maximize that receiver room. Finding a burner in the draft seems to be something that would help insulate this offense quite a bit. Or, if the Packers do something at TE and find an athletic freak at the position who can stress defenses that would also be amazing (I don't include Mayer in that group because I don't think spending a first-round pick on Jason Witten in today's NFL is a good idea). Ideally, I would love to see the packers draft Jalen Hyatt on day 2 since it appears they're going to need a really good receiver group to help whatever young QB they get to replace Love (who I fully expect to demand a trade if he's not starting next year).

 

[tynimiller]

What the Packers really need to add at receiver is another speed guy that can help open up the offense if/when Watson misses time. I don't think Watson is particularly injury prone but the massive difference in how this offense functions with a speed threat at receiver versus how much it turns into a ****-and-dunk nightmare with no deep threat is concerning when there is only ONE legitimate deep threat on the team. I'm not saying the Packers need to spend a first-round pick on receiver, but this offense needs deep speed to stress defenses and, with only one guy on the team that can currently do that, I'm not sure that bringing in another slow, sure-handed receiver like Thielen is the way to maximize that receiver room. Finding a burner in the draft seems to be something that would help insulate this offense quite a bit. Or, if the Packers do something at TE and find an athletic freak at the position who can stress defenses that would also be amazing (I don't include Mayer in that group because I don't think spending a first-round pick on Jason Witten in today's NFL is a good idea). Ideally, I would love to see the packers draft Jalen Hyatt on day 2 since it appears they're going to need a really good receiver group to help whatever young QB they get to replace Love (who I fully expect to demand a trade if he's not starting next year).

FTR I'm very high on Hyatt. Especially his WR type paired with Watson/Doubs and fingers crossed a Lazard resigning.

 

[tynimiller]

Who needs money? Creative contracts for both and just like so many contracts, pushing it forward.

Agree though that the per year cost of signing both might be high, but still a combined less than what teams are paying top WR's. The Packers currently have a very "cheap" receiver cost in their books.

What do you think Lazard will demand? Similar to what the Chiefs paid MVS? Who by the way is having a similar season as he had in Green Bay in 2020, except only 2 TD's with Chiefs, 6 with Packers.

Spitballing on Lazard, I think his OVERALL contract may work out to $10M a year but solely due to his final contract year elevating that number.

I think a contract that hits a team's cap for say $7M-$8M first two years with a decent team out in year three say like a

$7M hit year one guaranteed
$8M hit year two guaranteed
$5M hit year three guaranteed + another $8M to $9M if not cut for total of like $13/$14M

That would be a $30M/3 Year deal area or $10M/year average

I think that is about what minimum it will take to get Lazard.

For what it is worth Spotrac estimates his value of $33M/3yr type deal.

 

[tynimiller]

@Pokerbrat2000 obviously I miss stated the first two years because that much guaranteed is probably not happening...for example MVS didn't even get $9M guaranteed.

I'd be on board with like a $10-$15M guaranteed if it means he takes our deal over another team's. He has his most likely value here in GB and I think he knows this.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He has his most likely value here in GB and I think he knows this.

Think you are inferring that he is probably most valuable to the Packers? I would agree with that, especially if Rodgers is the QB. Now if Love is all of a sudden the QB, things might change for a lot of players.

Cobb plays a certain part in this as well. If they want to keep him around, that takes up more cap money on the position. However, as I alluded to before, you have at least 2-4 rookie contracts (if they keep Toure and draft another WR). So that helps in justifying some money being spent on the other 2-3 WR's. Problem for the Packers, they will most likely be in another cap pinch and although they may want to put more money in the WR room, they may not be able too.

 

[tynimiller]

Think you are inferring that he is probably most valuable to the Packers? I would agree with that, especially if Rodgers is the QB. Now if Love is all of a sudden the QB, things might change for a lot of players.

Cobb plays a certain part in this as well. If they want to keep him around, that takes up more cap money on the position. However, as I alluded to before, you have at least 2-4 rookie contracts (if they keep Toure and draft another WR). So that helps in justifying some money being spent on the other 2-3 WR's. Problem for the Packers, they will most likely be in another cap pinch and although they may want to put more money in the WR room, they may not be able too.

If I'm GB I tell Aaron, we can afford to resign Lazard OR Cobb/Lewis OR Cobb/Tonyan.....there is a small chance we can afford Cobb/Lewis/Tonyan but Lazard most likely will cost in cap hits the same as two or all three of those vets.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If I'm GB I tell Aaron, we can afford to resign Lazard OR Cobb/Lewis OR Cobb/Tonyan.....there is a small chance we can afford Cobb/Lewis/Tonyan but Lazard most likely will cost in cap hits the same as two or all three of those vets.

Add in there "Aaron, if you want more, its time to renegotiate your deal and that means you kick some back to improve the weapons we can give you."

 

[tynimiller]

@Pokerbrat2000 here's something I brought up to a buddy once...if we are talking cut options.

MVS could save the Chiefs $7M if cut this next year as his salary jumps to $11M and dead is only $4M

That is a sizeable savings...and JuJu has been their #1 and is becoming a FA, could they roll that savings into keeping their #2 target behind Kelce, plan on Skyy Moore progressing more, Justyn Ross who they like in house to be healthy next year and potentially Toney clicking....

I could see it honestly....would MVS come back to GB? Would GB want him? What would he garner...surely somewhat less? However he has still just shy of 700 yards with one week left. That isn't crazy bad for a guy that is the third option and a deep threat type.

 

[OldSchool101]

Who needs money? Creative contracts for both and just like so many contracts, pushing it forward.

Agree though that the per year cost of signing both might be high, but still a combined less than what teams are paying top WR's. The Packers currently have a very "cheap" receiver cost in their books.

What do you think Lazard will demand? Similar to what the Chiefs paid MVS? Who by the way is having a similar season as he had in Green Bay in 2020, except only 2 TD's with Chiefs, 6 with Packers.

True. We were getting ready to pay 1 WR $30,000,000. That might mean parting with a few other players though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

would MVS come back to GB? Would GB want him?

Novel idea and I guess it would boil down to how both sides left things. For instance, I can tell you that Z-Dog will never come back to GB, nor would I want him. My guess is, that it was an amicable parting of the ways with MVS, but if the Packers never offered or low-balled him, he might feel like he is better off elsewhere.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

True. We were getting ready to pay 1 WR $30,000,000.

Yeah, loved Adams, but that is a lot of money to tie up in 1 WR. I am fine with bit having that money tied up in Adams and getting Walker and Watson along the way.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

For what it is worth, PFF gave both Jefferson and Thielen top 15 grades for blocking last year (article below). Not sure where Lazard sits in that grading, but guessing it is pretty high. Lots of pluses for each player for sure. I think Thielen is the more talented route runner and pass catcher, but Lazard is a better blocker, knows Rodgers and is younger.

According to PFF Thielen significantly regressed as a run blocker this season.

For what it is worth Spotrac estimates his value of $33M/3yr type deal.

Spotrac shouldn't be trusted in that regard as they predicted Jenkins to sign for $7-8 million a season if I remember correctly.

Add in there "Aaron, if you want more, its time to renegotiate your deal and that means you kick some back to improve the weapons we can give you."

Aside of Rodgers forgoing fully guaranteed money there's no way to renegotiate his contract to lower the cap hit for next season.

 

[tynimiller]

Spotrac shouldn't be trusted in that regard as they predicted Jenkins to sign for $7-8 million a season if I remember correctly.

And when I saw that I laughed, but it is all in the guys they use as comps which their computer engine shares now. Lazard's comps aren't as TERRIBLE as Jenkins. It's true they very well may be conservative for what he really gets but I feel it is in the ball park.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And when I saw that I laughed, but it is all in the guys they use as comps which their computer engine shares now. Lazard's comps aren't as TERRIBLE as Jenkins. It's true they very well may be conservative for what he really gets but I feel it is in the ball park.

Actually I believe Lazard won't get as much as Spotrac suggests but I agree it's a more realistic guess than the one on Jenkins.

 

[McKnowledge]

If Hopkins gets cut they need to get him

ASAP.

If indeed Arizona releases Hopkins then Green Bay should make all attempts to bring him in.

Adding Hopkins to an improving Watson and Doubs will open the field at all three levels.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

TE Mike Gesicki sent out what seems to be a goodbye to Dolphin fans on Twitter.



Go get him Gute!