Free Agent Signings for Packers or Elsewhere...

[Pokerbrat2000]

Lotta hope going on around here.

When you don't have full disclosure, it is about all you can rely on. Most of what is written in these threads is based on having to formulate opinions and guessing what the decision makers are thinking or doing. Some of us "hope" the decisions made by the Packers are the best ones, in that they work out favorably for the Packers, not because we thought they were right or wrong.

This whole process has made following the Packers a lot more fun for me. I used to just read my morning newspaper and watch the game on Sunday. Now I have the internet, this forum and thousands of opinions and facts to base my hopes and opinions for each Packer season on, but I still have the same amount of influence on the game as I did many years ago, zero.

 

[brandon2348]

When you don't have full disclosure, it is about all you can rely on. Most of what is written in these threads is based on having to formulate opinions and guessing what the decision makers are thinking or doing. Some of us "hope" the decisions made by the Packers are the best ones.

This whole process has made following the Packers a lot more fun for me. I used to just read my morning newspaper and watch the game on Sunday. Now I have the internet, this forum and thousands of opinions and facts to base my hopes and opinions for each Packer season on, but I still have the same amount of influence on the game as I did many years ago, zero.

It is fun but Ted Thompson is kind of ruining it for me. No matter what I will fall in line and root for the Packers like I always do but I feel like we're getting short changed here regarding putting a super bowl team out there.

I wanna be excited and buy tickets to road games and make travel plans and while I'm excited about the offense I feel let down so far as far as the defense. Well see what happens.

Actually wanna go see them play in Pittsburgh this year.

 

[PackerDNA]

FWIW, Zach Brown's deal is for $2.3M, with 700K guaranteed. The rest- up to 4.6M total- is incentive based.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

FWIW, Zach Brown's deal is for $2.3M, with 700K guaranteed. The rest- up to 4.6M total- is incentive based.

That's a pretty reasonable deal. I still think there was no need for the Packers to possibly end up paying an inside linebacker close to $5 million next season.

 

[McKnowledge]

I never suggested Brown would be 3rd on the depth chart, I meant "3rd" as in 3 starters. Thus the "finding snaps for all 3."

I wasn't aware a 3-4 base defense had 3 ILBs, because all three are specifcally ILBs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I wasn't aware a 3-4 base defense had 3 ILBs, because all three are specifcally ILBs.

Thus my point. The Packers already have Ryan and Martinez. Two young players that I believe they view as starting caliber ILB's. So signing Brown, also viewed as a starting ILB, wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense to me. Only way it would have made sense is if the Packers were unsure of one of their current starters or wanted more Vet experience for depth and for the amount Brown was paid, that is starters money, so either Ryan or Martinez would have been moved to a backup spot, getting less snaps.

 

[Mondio]

Thus my point. The Packers already have Ryan and Martinez. Two young players that I believe they view as starting caliber ILB's. So signing Brown, also viewed as a starting ILB, wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense to me. Only way it would have made sense is if the Packers were unsure of one of their current starters or wanted more Vet experience for depth and for the amount Brown was paid, that is starters money, so either Ryan or Martinez would have been moved to a backup spot, getting less snaps.

They obviously think highly of Ryan and Martinez, and I happen to think they are just fine in the middle and will be getting better. I don't think it's smart to stifle their growth with someone who'll be a tad better, but shorter term and isn't a difference maker on a defense.

I know everyone hates ted for keeping the team in position to make moves, but not making many, but it seems every year the moves people want him to make and don't tend to not work out well for the teams signing them and when he does open up, it works well for us. So Ted signs Brown, it's a semi-decent upgrade, but not a difference maker and now in August a situational pass rusher becomes available that he and the staff want, but they already gave that money to Brown?

Everyone dislikes Ted's approach, but if they like a guy, they'll get him and will be in a position to do so. and most of the guys liked by all the fans this time of year are disappointments by this time next year for their teams and are cut after a year or 2. That's the trend.

 

[McKnowledge]

Thus my point. The Packers already have Ryan and Martinez. Two young players that I believe they view as starting caliber ILB's. So signing Brown, also viewed as a starting ILB, wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense to me. Only way it would have made sense is if the Packers were unsure of one of their current starters or wanted more Vet experience for depth and for the amount Brown was paid, that is starters money, so either Ryan or Martinez would have been moved to a backup spot, getting less snaps.

I was being sarcastic Pokerbrat2000. However, if Ryan or Martinez looses snaps and their ego takes a hit...so be it. Those two ILBs are not on Zach Brown's level.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

They obviously think highly of Ryan and Martinez, and I happen to think they are just fine in the middle and will be getting better. I don't think it's smart to stifle their growth with someone who'll be a tad better, but shorter term and isn't a difference maker on a defense.

I know everyone hates ted for keeping the team in position to make moves, but not making many, but it seems every year the moves people want him to make and don't tend to not work out well for the teams signing them and when he does open up, it works well for us. So Ted signs Brown, it's a semi-decent upgrade, but not a difference maker and now in August a situational pass rusher becomes available that he and the staff want, but they already gave that money to Brown?

Everyone dislikes Ted's approach, but if they like a guy, they'll get him and will be in a position to do so. and most of the guys liked by all the fans this time of year are disappointments by this time next year for their teams and are cut after a year or 2. That's the trend.

Had to agree with this, but would add the caveat.....Ted's biggest flaw, IMO, is too much reliance on thinking that some of his own guys are going to work out. I get not going out and signing big name free agents every year, but I think sometimes TT is a bit stubborn on admitting that his UDFA's or draft choices didn't work out and by taking too long to figure that out, he forces the team into playing guys that aren't ready or shouldn't be on the field, especially when injuries start setting in. I like the mid range FA signings. Not a big gamble, but it gives you quality depth with a proven player. We all love the Sam Shields story and how he went from an UDFA to a Pro Bowler, but sometimes I think TT is trying to recreate that scenario too often.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

They obviously think highly of Ryan and Martinez, and I happen to think they are just fine in the middle and will be getting better. I don't think it's smart to stifle their growth with someone who'll be a tad better, but shorter term and isn't a difference maker on a defense.

I know everyone hates ted for keeping the team in position to make moves, but not making many, but it seems every year the moves people want him to make and don't tend to not work out well for the teams signing them and when he does open up, it works well for us. So Ted signs Brown, it's a semi-decent upgrade, but not a difference maker and now in August a situational pass rusher becomes available that he and the staff want, but they already gave that money to Brown?

Everyone dislikes Ted's approach, but if they like a guy, they'll get him and will be in a position to do so. and most of the guys liked by all the fans this time of year are disappointments by this time next year for their teams and are cut after a year or 2. That's the trend.

Taking a look at some of the suggestions from last offseason there's no doubt Freeman and Trevathan would have been an upgrade over Martinez. On the other side Ladarius Green was injured for most of the season and Thompson was right about going with Cook.

In general there's a smart way to use free agency to address positions of need and it takes TT too long to improve certain areas on the roster lacking talent.

Unfortunately it seems he's ignoring the cornerback position this time around.

 

[Mondio]

He might be, but it's just like Favre tossing too many INT's and Rodgers holding the ball too long. At times it's a detriment, but overall they are very good, you don't tell them to be someone they aren't. Rodgers is still going to hold the ball when he thinks he's got a big play to hit. Ted is still going to keep any eye on the future and believe in the work they did to find a guy.

This is a "tough" time for GB because we had a lot of FA's coming at once. We had some guys that earned big contracts and now are not performing, and we had some young guys that earned contracts and needed to be paid. If it were so easy to just jettison guys and get new ones without cap ramifications, i'm sure he'd be doing it. He probably could have done it a few more times, but we have no idea to know how it would have been different good or bad.

I think most serious football people would agree Ted is much better than average as a talent scout. I don't blame him for believing in all the work he does. anybody worth anything at what they do, believe in the work they do.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ted is still going to keep any eye on the future and believe in the work they did to find a guy.

At some point Thompson has to stop worrying about the future and make moves to adequately address shortcomings on the current team.

 

[PikeBadger]

He might be, but it's just like Favre tossing too many INT's and Rodgers holding the ball too long. At times it's a detriment, but overall they are very good, you don't tell them to be someone they aren't. Rodgers is still going to hold the ball when he thinks he's got a big play to hit. Ted is still going to keep any eye on the future and believe in the work they did to find a guy.

This is a "tough" time for GB because we had a lot of FA's coming at once. We had some guys that earned big contracts and now are not performing, and we had some young guys that earned contracts and needed to be paid. If it were so easy to just jettison guys and get new ones without cap ramifications, i'm sure he'd be doing it. He probably could have done it a few more times, but we have no idea to know how it would have been different good or bad.

I think most serious football people would agree Ted is much better than average as a talent scout. I don't blame him for believing in all the work he does. anybody worth anything at what they do, believe in the work they do.

I think he also believes in the work the coaching staff and probably believes their input and assessments of current players progression ladder.
It's a difficult balancing act of info analysis, how much to trust the info being received from different angles. Thompson doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who disregards info he gets from everyone and makes decisions based on only what he sees. I think he probably listens a lot before making decisions.

 

[Mark Andrew Hooley]

We should look at signing Jahri Evans and possibly a veteran pass rusher for depth. That would free us up to go Pass Rusher and Corner early and get starting caliber players at those positions of need. Then can pick up a RB thumper and future Guard later.

 

[Mavster]

We should look at signing Jahri Evans and possibly a veteran pass rusher for depth. That would free us up to go Pass Rusher and Corner early and get starting caliber players at those positions of need. Then can pick up a RB thumper and future Guard later.

Wait, are you saying that you expect us to get day 1 starters early in the draft?

 

[Half Empty]

The question is whether they'd be just starters or answers. They're going to have 11 guys starting, just like they did last year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The question is whether they'd be just starters or answers. They're going to have 11 guys starting, just like they did last year.

We might need someone to do the math on this.....let's see, you find 3 (eventual) starters in each draft, subtract 2, add Bill Belichick's ego and divide that by the the number of injuries we have each year. How many does that leave us after every 4 years as starters?

 

[Mark Andrew Hooley]

Wait, are you saying that you expect us to get day 1 starters early in the draft?

Yes , we'll have to if we want to go to the Super Bowl. Round 1-2 guys should be ready to start anyway.

 

[Poppa San]

Yes , we'll have to if we want to go to the Super Bowl. Round 1-2 guys should be ready to start anyway.

319 players drafted in the past 5 years rounds one and two. How many were starting by week 6 of their rookie season not including injury replacements? Then, how many started on teams that made the playoffs the previous season?

 

[Mark Andrew Hooley]

319 players drafted in the past 5 years rounds one and two. How many were starting by week 6 of their rookie season not including injury replacements? Then, how many started on teams that made the playoffs the previous season?

Round 1/2 guys are generally considered starters unless at a position like QB or TE which everyone knows takes longer to develop.

 

[Poppa San]

Round 1/2 guys are generally considered starters unless at a position like QB or TE which everyone knows takes longer to develop.

I understand that is the common belief. I am actually curious as to how often it holds true.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think he also believes in the work the coaching staff and probably believes their input and assessments of current players progression ladder.
It's a difficult balancing act of info analysis, how much to trust the info being received from different angles. Thompson doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who disregards info he gets from everyone and makes decisions based on only what he sees. I think he probably listens a lot before making decisions.

Thompson has mentioned several times that while he listens to input by the coaching staff and other members of the front office it's ultimately his decision to make a move or stand pat. There are have rumors on different occasions with people inside 1265 getting frustrated with his approach which would support that theory.

We should look at signing Jahri Evans and possibly a veteran pass rusher for depth.

Evans might present a decent option but I'm not sure the Packers are interested in a soon-to-be 34 years old guard.

Round 1-2 guys should be ready to start anyway.

Well, since the new CBA was introduced in 2011 the players the Packers selected in the first two rounds of the draft over the past six seasons have started an average of only 5.2 games during their rookie seasons.

 

[Pkrjones]

Well, since the new CBA was introduced in 2011 the players the Packers selected in the first two rounds of the draft over the past six seasons have started an average of only 5.2 games during their rookie seasons.

Your 5.2 games started is intended to show that rookies don't play much, or aren't expected to start in GB. Fact is that players drafted high (rounds 1 & 2) are given significant opportunities to start and play. They may not be top of the depth chart, but are "next man up" in many situations. Below shows the player and games started as rookies (and saw significant playing time in many others):
Perry - 5
Lacy - 15
Adams - 11
Clinton-Dix - 10
Rollins - 4
Randall - 9
Spriggs - 2
Clark - 2

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Your 5.2 games started is intended to show that rookies don't play much, or aren't expected to start in GB. Fact is that players drafted high (rounds 1 & 2) are given significant opportunities to start and play. They may not be top of the depth chart, but are "next man up" in many situations. Below shows the player and games started as rookies (and saw significant playing time in many others):
Perry - 5
Lacy - 15
Adams - 11
Clinton-Dix - 10
Rollins - 4
Randall - 9
Spriggs - 2
Clark - 2

Unfortunately the Packers need a cornerback capable of not only starting immediately but take over the top position on the depth chart in week 1.

 

[C-Lee]

Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers release Olivia Munn.