Fire MM!

[Dantés]

How is Peyton's offense appreciably different today than say 5 years ago? or 3? or 10? swapped out for a new one? Defensive cordinators can't figure it out? I honestly don't know what they run. I do know that the 2 offenses everyone wants to be, the Saints and Rams, we don't compare too and not just because of production. We don't have anyone close to what Kamara makes defenses do or Gurley. We don't have small shifty receivers like the Rams. We have weapons and right now they're having trouble executing. If we have a screen pass set up and the QB throws it at his feet. Don't tell me the scheme is bad. If we don't have a running back that make defenses really take notice, we're at a disadvantage. And we are.

with the amount of times i've seen open receivers and not ball thrown to them, you can't tell me the scheme is broken.

Payton's offense has changed with time in some ways (heavier use the running game, for instance), but the biggest difference is that it still works.

There is no excuse for McCarthy based on personnel. He has an elite quarterback, good wide receivers, a good offensive line, and good running backs. If you need more than that to coach up an offense more functional that what we've seen, you're not a good coach. We absolutely do compare to those teams in terms of personnel. Adams is as good or better than any receiver on any of those teams. Bakhtiari is the best offensive lineman of the whole bunch. Rodgers, when he's on, is the best quarterback of the bunch. Graham is a better tight end than anybody the Saints or Rams have.

This is devolving into the Capers debate all over again-- if a coach needs personnel to be absolutely perfect to succeed, then they're the problem.

The scheme is overly reliant on receivers beating man coverage, that often requires more time, the entire system is slow-developing, and we've seen way too many negative plays as a result.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

but the biggest difference is that it still works.

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[Mondio]

Payton's offense has changed with time in some ways (heavier use the running game, for instance), but the biggest difference is that it still works.

There is no excuse for McCarthy based on personnel. He has an elite quarterback, good wide receivers, a good offensive line, and good running backs. If you need more than that to coach up an offense more functional that what we've seen, you're not a good coach. We absolutely do compare to those teams in terms of personnel. Adams is as good or better than any receiver on any of those teams. Bakhtiari is the best offensive lineman of the whole bunch. Rodgers, when he's on, is the best quarterback of the bunch. Graham is a better tight end than anybody the Saints or Rams have.

This is devolving into the Capers debate all over again-- if a coach needs personnel to be absolutely perfect to succeed, then they're the problem.

The scheme is overly reliant on receivers beating man coverage, that often requires more time, the entire system is slow-developing, and we've seen way too many negative plays as a result.

Is it though? There was a play, that was still a positive for us that I remember pretty clearly from the last game. He ended up scrambling out of pressure and hitting Williams for a 10 or so yard gain. In the meantime, he passed up a quickly open St. Brown right in front of him, no linebackers around and no coverage from anyone else. Is it our "scheme" is it our QB always waiting for something more? I remember another one from weeks ago because they kept going off on how nobody was getting open after a throw away. That was after MVS was open right off the line for a quick out and he never considered it, held it, and then had to throw it away. I'm sure there are plenty more where that came from.

Outside of Adams, all these receivers and TE's not not Kupp or Woods with vastly different skill sets. Rodgers hasn't played like the best of the bunch QB outside of maybe 2 quarters this year. Who's are Alvin Kamara? I wonder what the Rams would do with no Gurley. and it wasn't always that Capers didn't have perfect personnel, he often didn't have much of any that could play together for 2 weeks in a row. Don't think it matters? Pettine also isn't having to devise a defense to cover Julio Jones with a guy named Gunter.

 

[swhitset]

I think this statement pretty much sums up my feelings on MM at this point. He seems to have fallen back on a coaches worst nightmare "if we stay healthy and if we execute, we will be good again, so why change?" Sure, those 2 things can be true, but relying on them to happen, while not making scheme changes leaves you running a highly predictable offense. If you compare what the Patriots did on offense with 3 starters out, with what the Packers did with 2 starters out, its night and day.

If you look at the other side of the ball, that was the biggest complaint about Capers, too steadfast in his schemes, whether they were working or not. Now with Pettine in there, we are seeing a defense that seems to actually be improving every week.

Honestly... I’ve been a staunch supporter of Mcarthy, but that support is waning. After watching the Safety against the Rams... And then seeing pretty much the same call against the Patriots without seeing any real change in its execution or scheme... with very similar results... Yeah they avoided the safety this time, but not by much. I’m beginning to agree that McCarthy’s stubborn resistance to change anything has become an insurmountable barrier to the Packers’ success.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Honestly... I’ve been a staunch supporter of Mcarthy, but that support is waning. After watching the Safety against the Rams... And then seeing pretty much the same call against the Patriots without seeing any real change in its execution or scheme... with very similar results... Yeah they avoided the safety this time, but not by much. I’m beginning to agree that McCarthy’s stubborn resistance to change anything has become an insurmountable barrier to the Packers’ success.

Good point and I too couldn't help but think "Is MM doubling down on the same call to try and prove that somehow it should have worked the first time?" Or does MM just not have any other call up his sleeve? Or was he thinking "The Patriots know I am not dumb enough to call the same play that blew up into a safety last week". If there is one thing that is slowly coming out of all this, its both AR and MM are showing their stubbornness and self convictions on trying to always prove themselves to be right. Now that is fine, when things are going your way, but when they aren't and they are costing your team games, then something has to bend and change is needed.

I still want to know what Philbin is doing??? Anyone?

 

[Mondio]

sometimes there's a benefit in making your guys line up until they get it right. Think MM is the only one to do that? Sometimes when I guy drops one, you give him another one if you believe in him. Sometimes you never look his way again when you don't. anyway, a whole lotta teams try running it out of the place to get some room. It only matters if it works

 

[PackerFanLV]

People on here blaming Aaron LOL. Yes he has had some bad throws. You put another qb behind this OLINE and offensive gameplan year after year and let’s see what they do.. Sometimes I think Aaron morale is just low at times S.O.S. Get this man a target he can consistently depend on rather it be a RB a WR or TE. Davonte Adams a beast but he’s not no AB, Hopkins, Julio, Obj. Get the man some help.

 

[rmontro]

Now I know how Dom felt.

Look at the bright side, Mike. They have a Golden Corral in Cleveland too.

 

[swhitset]

sometimes there's a benefit in making your guys line up until they get it right. Think MM is the only one to do that? Sometimes when I guy drops one, you give him another one if you believe in him. Sometimes you never look his way again when you don't. anyway, a whole lotta teams try running it out of the place to get some room. It only matters if it works

totally agree... however there is a time and place. I’m not certain your own one yard line is that place.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This made me smile. As bad as we all feel with the Packers.....Cowboy Fans are feeling even worse!

Shannon Sharpe totally undresses Skip **** Bayless and actually gets SDB to "all but disown is beloved Cowboys" ROFLMAO This made my week!

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[C-Lee]

This made me smile. As bad as we all feel with the Packers.....Cowboy Fans are feeling even worse!

Shannon Sharpe totally undresses Skip **** Bayless and actually gets SDB to "disown is beloved Cowboys" ROFLMAO This made my week!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/realskipbayless/status/5871018854?lang=en[/TWEET]

 

[rmontro]

That tweet by Skip is BS. He's talked multiple times about rooting for the Cowboys when he was growing up.
Now it may be that since they've hit a rough patch, he's decided to desert them. Wouldn't surprise me a bit, seems like just the kind of fan he is.
Meanwhile I was a Packer fan through all the Gory Years. And for the record, just because he picked against them doesn't mean he's not a fan.

 

[Dantés]

Is it though? There was a play, that was still a positive for us that I remember pretty clearly from the last game. He ended up scrambling out of pressure and hitting Williams for a 10 or so yard gain. In the meantime, he passed up a quickly open St. Brown right in front of him, no linebackers around and no coverage from anyone else. Is it our "scheme" is it our QB always waiting for something more? I remember another one from weeks ago because they kept going off on how nobody was getting open after a throw away. That was after MVS was open right off the line for a quick out and he never considered it, held it, and then had to throw it away. I'm sure there are plenty more where that came from.

Outside of Adams, all these receivers and TE's not not Kupp or Woods with vastly different skill sets. Rodgers hasn't played like the best of the bunch QB outside of maybe 2 quarters this year. Who's are Alvin Kamara? I wonder what the Rams would do with no Gurley. and it wasn't always that Capers didn't have perfect personnel, he often didn't have much of any that could play together for 2 weeks in a row. Don't think it matters? Pettine also isn't having to devise a defense to cover Julio Jones with a guy named Gunter.

I have no doubt that there are plenty of instances in which Rodgers misses open receivers. But it's also true that there are instances where no one is open quickly enough, and the offense as a hole is predicated on slow developing plays.

I'm not exactly certain what you're saying in bold, but Adams, Cobb, Graham, and MVS all have nicely complimentary skill sets. Kupp and Woods are actually quite similar.

The closest thing to a Kamara on the Packers is obviously Jones. That's another issue I have with MM-- it took four games for him to put Jones on the field enough to make a real impact.

I persist in my opinion that McCarthy has plenty to work with. If he can't get it done with the likes of what he has here, then he can't get it done. You of course do not have to agree.

 

[Mondio]

I think he has plenty to work with too, but when you see a screen set up and your HOF QB throws it in the dirt, was that the scheme? cobb is NOTHING this year. I can't even believe he was on the field on Sunday. he can't be healthy yet. he hasn't been since week 1. by week 2 he was responsible for 3 turnovers all by himself.

anyway, this offense is different. i don't think it's dead, it's just not being executed very well. most of those big plays for the Rams and New Orleans aren't quick hitters either, but a serious run threat sets up great play action and moves linebackers and holds the pass rush. Our Run game is nothing like theirs and neither is Jones whether we think he can be or not. He'll always have a nice average based on explosive runs against light looks. If we had a legitimate 4 yard per carry back that could maintain that with a long of 9 yard runs per game our offense would probably be a heck of a lot more efficient.

anyway. What this offense lacks is flow and opportunity. When we start getting some first downs it's amazing how things just start working. and those other teams we think are "schemed" so much better. Lets forget the difference in personnel and just assume it's all scheme. How many redzone penalties do they commit? if you want to say MM has an undisciplined team, i'm fine with that. They seem to self destruct whenever they can lately. But that isn't historically how his teams are. I think we had 2 redzone penalties alone sunday night.

I don't think there is anything wrong with this offense other than self destruct and failure to execute. you can certainly blame coaching and how it relates to player performance, but i'm not blaming scheme. Not when I see the offense continuously put itself in bad positions by it's own bad play or dumb decisions. and not when i see plenty of big plays left on the field every game.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

anyway, this offense is different. i don't think it's dead, it's just not being executed very well.

At some point the coaching staff has to be held accountable for a lack of execution as well though. I was in support of McCarthy for most of this season but in my opinion he has eight games to move this team in the right direction. If the Packers end up missing the playoffs it's time to move on.

 

[Mondio]

I'm on board with lack of discipline and getting guys ready to an extent as well. Historically that doesn't seem to be a problem with the staff, but it is this year. at least 2 redzone penalties again last game. anyway, i just don't buy the "scheme" excuse. It's too easy and it only shows up when the packers are losing. When they're winning and the big plays are there everyone is happy and not saying anything. They just have to do a few of the small things better. Hit those screens to slow down the pass rush. hit EQ in the middle of the field instead of making it difficult and holding the ball forever again. quit missing the plays that are there, a few more first downs and everything looks different for this team. It's easier than it sounds though.

 

[PikeBadger]

I'm on board with lack of discipline and getting guys ready to an extent as well. Historically that doesn't seem to be a problem with the staff, but it is this year. at least 2 redzone penalties again last game. anyway, i just don't buy the "scheme" excuse. It's too easy and it only shows up when the packers are losing. When they're winning and the big plays are there everyone is happy and not saying anything. They just have to do a few of the small things better. Hit those screens to slow down the pass rush. hit EQ in the middle of the field instead of making it difficult and holding the ball forever again. quit missing the plays that are there, a few more first downs and everything looks different for this team. It's easier than it sounds though.

Exactly the way I see it. We’re not far away. We have the right pieces of the puzzle. Consistency in execution is not there yet.

 

[ShockwaveRider]

This team has the stink of an 8-7-1 team. Or maybe even (god forbid) 6-9-1.

If this is the case, what possible reason would there be to bring MM back? We simply accept the team hasn't gelled yet because of the assemblage of new moving parts?

Ands the more I think about it, the more PO'd I am about this "entitlement" thing.

On a site packed (???) with fellow Packer fans, I have to justify the feeling of "entitlement" to have a decent professional football team?

We should all just accept losing and mediocrity?

 

[ShockwaveRider]

Ooop, and I have to wonder........don't you think two broken collarbones and a sprained knee might have some minimal effect on AR12s play thus far?

Not to mention the constant pain and lack of practice time. And the multitude of other aches and pains one might experience from being thrown to the ground by 300 pound angry men.

Yet you don't hear AR12 whining about his problems (so I'll do it for him).

 

[PackAttack12]

There’s no more defending this guy. He’s got to go.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

Thought this thread might start heating up, look fellas we are highly successful losers. A lot of variables in that but but we just need to learn from our pad level.

 

[ls1bob]

I just don’t see why he didn’t punt at the end of the game. It is 4th and 2 and you are trying to win and make the playoffs. It is like he just gave up on the game

 

[FL-PACKERfan]

The injuries to the defense really hurt us at the end of the game.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

We should have known that he was a bad coach after he coached us out of a SB bid

 

[Simms87]

We should have known that he was a bad coach after he coached us out of a SB bid

True, why has he called Bostick to catch the onside kick with the head? What a stupid call.