Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[swhitset]

Amazing to me that fans watched hayward and thought, “Nah, this guy isn’t worth $5 mil a year.”

Who cares that he turned into a pro-bowl corner, at $5m a year he would have been a major value as the third string corner! Stop acting like he signed some expensive deal, he was the 43rd highest paid corner at $5.1m a year!!! Letting him walk for that stupidly low a price was a major mistake and there were plenty who pointed that out at the time.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/did-the-packers-make-a-mistake-letting-casey-hayward-go

Says the Packers should want him but probably can't afford him (turns out they could have)

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-re-signing-casey-hayward-priority-no-1-for-packers-in-free-agency

44th ranked free agent ended up being the 43rd highest paid CB

29th ranked free agent

28th ranked free agent

I'll stop there but let's not pretend nobody knew Hayward was a terrific corner when healthy.

Nobody is disputing his worth now or even then… but you are missing the point. At that time the decision had to be made, the Packers appeared to be overflowing with talent at DB… Both Randall and Rollins had very good rookie seasons and a decision had to be made about who they were going to keep. It’s not about the fact that Hayward ended up being a great deal at 5 million… it was about making a roster decision… with two up and coming players on rookie contracts, one a first rounder the other a 2nd… trumped keeping hayward for a 2nd contract. The fact that both Randall and Rollins ended up being busts for the Packers is not a point in that equaction… it is hindsight. All the press about those two rookies at the time was positive so you can’t go back now and say that it was foreseeable. Watching the Lions Monday night made me wish we still had Jamal Williams… and I think the Lions got a good back at a good price, but I don’t blame the Packers for having to choose to keep Jones instead.

 

[OldSchool101]

I was against the hire because Barry's entire history as a DC is that he sucks. Now, maybe Green Bay has the miracle juice that turns it around for him but we'll have to wait and see on that.

Wasn’t sure if you knew that Barry only had 2 seasons as DC for Wash in 2015-2016. They ranked 17th and 19th respectively in points allowed. While that’s not a premier ranking I don’t think he was a bottom feeder DC like you’re projecting. Also, Over the span of the last 4 seasons, Defenses under his tenure as LB/Assistant HC at LA ranked between #20th to #1 (2020) in scoring allowed. Whatever recent influence he had could only be so bad.

Listen. I resemble the early season frustration, but expecting a DC to come out guns blazing week 1 is a just far too impatient.
Add to that we haven’t had our best pass rusher healthy this season? Z was tied for 4th for Sacks, behind Watt, Donald and Hendrickson last year. When those type guys go down you can expect a serious decrease in pocket pressure. There’s a reason they rested Z, he’s a 1 man wrecking crew. Once he’s healthy and we have Preston, Rashan, Kenny and Z working in Tandem rotation, Things get better fast.

In the limping meantime, just get a Win. I don’t care if it’s in OT by 1 point. Every game we come out positive is 1 game closer to having our best LB and best OL back on that field.

ps. Has anyone else noticed a marked improvement at ILB with Campbell?
Imo, he’s a definitive upgrade over Kirksey. He’s got a veteran presence about him we missed last year.

 

[rmontro]

We could win a SB and someone would argue that our Offense or Defense still sucks, the other team handed us the Win..

I'd settle for that.

 

[milani]

Not really. Wahle (sp?) got cuz because as a LG, he was getting paid LT money. Thompson cut the guy, but the mistake was Sherman's. He way, way overpaid the guy.

Marco was FA and the Cowboys backed up the brinks truck for him. However, he was old and I think he only played one more (if that) full season. Losing him also hurt, but letting him go was correct.

Should not that have freed up more $$ to draft or trade for someone at least satisfactory? I mean, Adrian Klemm and William Whitaker? Come on, Ted. Jerry Jones could do better than that.

 

[mradtke66]

Should not that have freed up more $$ to draft or trade for someone at least satisfactory? I mean, Adrian Klemm and William Whitaker? Come on, Ted. Jerry Jones could do better than that.

Again, it’s been 16 years, but we were legit in cap hell.

Marco leaving didn’t free cap—he was already a FA. Wahle would have put us over the cap. Ie, literally impossible. This is not hyperbole. We would have started 2005 over the cap. Penalties were coming.

We also cut Sharper relying on a 2nd round rookie (Collins) to replace him.

And there was Joe Johnson’s dead cap. (I think this was the year it hit. )

Could Thompson had done better? Maybe, but Sherman was a terrible GM and set us back years. There was going to be pain regardless.

 

[milani]

Again, it’s been 16 years, but we were legit in cap hell.

Marco leaving didn’t free cap—he was already a FA. Wahle would have put us over the cap. Ie, literally impossible. This is not hyperbole. We would have started 2005 over the cap. Penalties were coming.

We also cut Sharper relying on a 2nd round rookie (Collins) to replace him.

And there was Joe Johnson’s dead cap. (I think this was the year it hit. )

Could Thompson had done better? Maybe, but Sherman was a terrible GM and set us back years. There was going to be pain regardless.

Wolf for some reason tried to give him double duty. It rarely works. Holmgren struggled in Seattle trying to do it. Coaches and GMs maybe on the same page but still each has a different focus. Guess you need a split personality to do both.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Randall became the starter outside taking Haywards place. I know Hayward played a lot and I know how the percentages played out. He was the starter to start the season and played pretty much 100% of the snaps for at least half the season, Randall was not. Randall took over the outside role and Hayward's playing time was reduced as he was the nickel back.

You can go back and read every article written at the time. They'd almost all say, Randall was taking time and they couldn't keep him off the field so they gave him the full time starter role and moved Hayward to the nickel role. Which we played a lot but when we didn't, Randall no longer came of the field, Hayward did.

Hayward still played 85% of the snaps in the second half of the 2015 season. As I've mentioned before it seemed to be the correct decision to let him walk away in free agency after the season but he was a big part of the secondary that year.

Wasn’t sure if you knew that Barry only had 2 seasons as DC for Wash in 2015-2016. They ranked 17th and 19th respectively in points allowed. While that’s not a premier ranking I don’t think he was a bottom feeder DC like you’re projecting.

Barry was also the defensive coordinator with the Lions in 2007 and '08. They finished dead last in points allowed in both seasons.

 

[Mondio]

By midseason Randall was cutting into his playing time because that is what happened. When Shields wasn't hurt and the Packers weren't in a nickel or dime defense who came off the field? Randall or Hayward?

 

[milani]

Hayward still played 85% of the snaps in the second half of the 2015 season. As I've mentioned before it seemed to be the correct decision to let him walk away in free agency after the season but he was a big part of the secondary that year.



Barry was also the defensive coordinator with the Lions in 2007 and '08. They finished dead last in points allowed in both seasons.

Was not 08 the 0-16 season?

 

[PackAttack12]

I think something that's getting lost in this thread is what @adambr2 posted about LaFleur basically telling Barry what to do with the defense at halftime.

LaFleur also blatantly alluded to it in his postgame presser.

Now...some might think 'oh that's not a big deal, I'm sure head coaches do that at times'. Well yeah, perhaps. But you never actually see the head coach basically put the defensive coordinator on front street like that.

There's a big difference in saying what Lafleur said (paraphrasing):

"I pretty much looked at Joe at halftime and said you either need to pressure or play coverage. Letting them have the best of both worlds just isn't going to cut it"

And saying:

"Yeah we weren't very good in the first half. But we were able to make some adjustments at halftime and I'm proud of the way we were able to step up defensively in the 2nd half."

Again, some might brush this off. But I'm sensing some early season frustration from LaFleur as it relates to Barry. Maybe it's a subtle message to Barry that he better be on top of his game to keep his job. Or maybe LaFleur has seen some things that really has him worried.

And it wasn't just a slip of the tongue either. Because LaFleur doubled down in his day after Tuesday press conference. It was intentional.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

By midseason Randall was cutting into his playing time because that is what happened. When Shields wasn't hurt and the Packers weren't in a nickel or dime defense who came off the field? Randall or Hayward?

I honestly don't know anymore. Hayward wasn't off the field on a lot of snaps though.

 

[Mondio]

I think something that's getting lost in this thread is what @adambr2 posted about LaFleur basically telling Barry what to do with the defense at halftime.

LaFleur also blatantly alluded to it in his postgame presser.

Now...some might think 'oh that's not a big deal, I'm sure head coaches do that at times'. Well yeah, perhaps. But you never actually see the head coach basically put the defensive coordinator on front street like that.

There's a big difference in saying what Lafleur said (paraphrasing):

"I pretty much looked at Joe at halftime and said you either need to pressure or play coverage. Letting them have the best of both worlds just isn't going to cut it"

And saying:

"Yeah we weren't very good in the first half. But we were able to make some adjustments at halftime and I'm proud of the way we were able to step up defensively in the 2nd half."

Again, some might brush this off. But I'm sensing some early season frustration from LaFleur as it relates to Barry. Maybe it's a subtle message to Barry that he better be on top of his game to keep his job. Or maybe LaFleur has seen some things that really has him worried.

And it wasn't just a slip of the tongue either. Because LaFleur doubled down in his day after Tuesday press conference. It was intentional.

I didn't those, but those are some pretty important statements from the head coach and publicly. Wouldn't expect that from this team. Things are usually kept internal and to say something that publicly after just 2 weeks is not some insignificant thing.

 

[gopkrs]

I wonder if maybe Barry wasn't La Fleur's pick for DC. And he is showing his dissatisfaction. Hard to know who is pulling all the strings. But if Murphy is making these hires; he shouldn't be. Maybe he could veto, but not choose. These last two, special teams and DC reek of saving money. And getting some good returns does not really say much about a special teams coach imho. The special teams still do not look good to my eye.

 

[Poppa San]

getting some good returns does not really say much about a special teams coach imho

OK. What would it take?

 

[realitybytez]

OK. What would it take?

a lot more.

 

[realitybytez]

I wonder if maybe Barry wasn't La Fleur's pick for DC. And he is showing his dissatisfaction. Hard to know who is pulling all the strings. But if Murphy is making these hires; he shouldn't be. Maybe he could veto, but not choose. These last two, special teams and DC reek of saving money. And getting some good returns does not really say much about a special teams coach imho. The special teams still do not look good to my eye.

i'm pretty sure that mlf's choice for defensive coordinator was jim leonhard, but that was never going to happen for the amount of money the packers wanted to spend. i agree with your "saving money" comment. as far as special teams goes, when you fire the special teams coach, what sense does it make to promote his assistant? in essence you are virtually guaranteeing more of the same. fortunately for drayton, he got the benefit of a couple new players that have contributed to a minor improvement (kylin hill and corey bojorquez).

 

[OldSchool101]

Hayward still played 85% of the snaps in the second half of the 2015 season. As I've mentioned before it seemed to be the correct decision to let him walk away in free agency after the season but he was a big part of the secondary that year.



Barry was also the defensive coordinator with the Lions in 2007 and '08. They finished dead last in points allowed in both seasons.

Good point. He had a rough start as a DC, but look across that Defense and you’ll see very few names that were memorable. The whole team was awful and was largely inherited in his first NFL job. It’s interesting that as a LB Coach he won a SB 5 years earlier. That Tampa Defense was absolutely phenomenal.I saw a list once that had them ranked top 5 Defenses in NFL history. That’s stout and LB production was instrumental in achieving that.

Since 13 seasons ago Barrys track record as an Executive level coach has improved (which you’d expect) substantially. Don’t think he wasn’t involved in the nuances of the NFL’s #1 Defense in 2020. I think you’d have to put far more weight in his recent production than where he started 13-14 seasons ago. That’s an eternity in a league that is constantly evolving.
Aaron Rodgers started 6-10 in 2008. Should we fire him also? Obviously it took him a minute to gain momentum

I’m not related to Barry or even a fan of his. I’ve got no skin in the game with Barry specifically so to speak. However, I think we’ve picked who we’ve picked and lobbying to fire someone after week 1 is a bit over the top. I guess it’s fun for some to talk about firing people out of frustration (not for me). I just think it’s prudent to give the man a chance to prove (or disprove) his worth. Firing anyone at any position after 1 game is ridiculous at worst and naive at best. Can you imagine if that’s the standard we were each held to? I’d defend you or @PackerfaninCarolina for starting a new job and struggling out of the gate, as long as I believe you weren’t flaky. I just think it’s the right thing to do until you’re given ample time to adjust.

 

[realitybytez]

Aaron Rodgers went 6-10 in 2008. Should we pull him also?

prepare for some very snarky responses.

 

[Passepartout]

Well thirteen years comes with experience doesn't it! Well really just hope he can get the defense back on track.

 

[gopkrs]

OK. What would it take?

During Detroit KO returns, the spreading out of out players looked to me like the runners were very close to returning a big one. On our returns, it looked like Hill was getting yards pretty much on his own. No real holes for him to run through. But I'll reserve judgement. We'll see how they do against SF. Our punter so far is making it easy for us. I think the main part of special teams and how well they do as far as the coach is concerned, has more to do with the other 10 players.

 

[milani]

I wonder if maybe Barry wasn't La Fleur's pick for DC. And he is showing his dissatisfaction. Hard to know who is pulling all the strings. But if Murphy is making these hires; he shouldn't be. Maybe he could veto, but not choose. These last two, special teams and DC reek of saving money. And getting some good returns does not really say much about a special teams coach imho. The special teams still do not look good to my eye.

Well this is definitely a make or break week for Barry. Mahommes will be his toughest challenge. But this one is just behind.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I wonder if maybe Barry wasn't La Fleur's pick for DC. And he is showing his dissatisfaction. Hard to know who is pulling all the strings.

I'm absolutely convinced it was MLF's decision to hire Barry. It's pretty obvious he wasn't the preferred choice but after Leonhard declined MLF settled for him.

Good point. He had a rough start as a DC, but look across that Defense and you’ll see very few names that were memorable. The whole team was awful and was largely inherited in his first NFL job. It’s interesting that as a LB Coach he won a SB 5 years earlier. That Tampa Defense was absolutely phenomenal.I saw a list once that had them ranked top 5 Defenses in NFL history. That’s stout and LB production was instrumental in achieving that.

Since 13 seasons ago Barrys track record as an Executive level coach has improved (which you’d expect) substantially. Don’t think he wasn’t involved in the nuances of the NFL’s #1 Defense in 2020. I think you’d have to put far more weight in his recent production than where he started 13-14 seasons ago. That’s an eternity in a league that is constantly evolving.
Aaron Rodgers started 6-10 in 2008. Should we fire him also? Obviously it took him a minute to gain momentum

I’m not related to Barry or even a fan of his. I’ve got no skin in the game with Barry specifically so to speak. However, I think we’ve picked who we’ve picked and lobbying to fire someone after week 1 is a bit over the top. I guess it’s fun for some to talk about firing people out of frustration (not for me). I just think it’s prudent to give the man a chance to prove (or disprove) his worth. Firing anyone at any position after 1 game is ridiculous at worst and naive at best. Can you imagine if that’s the standard we were each held to? I’d defend you or @PackerfaninCarolina for starting a new job and struggling out of the gate, as long as I believe you weren’t flaky. I just think it’s the right thing to do until you’re given ample time to adjust.

First of all, let me be absolutely clear about it that I wasn't one of the posters who advocated to fire Barry based on one terrible game vs. the Saints.

I didn't like the Packers hiring him as defensive coordinator in the first place and so far he hasn't done anything to change my mind. The head coaching having to tell him how to do his job at half time vs. the Lions isn't a good sign either.

It seems Barry is a significant better position coach than defensive coordinator though.

With that being said I agree it makes sense to wait some more games to evaluate his work.

As a side note, while Rodgers went 6-10 during his first season as a starter the Packers ranked fifth in points scored that year. They struggled because of their defense. Sounds familiar.

 

[AmishMafia]

I think something that's getting lost in this thread is what @adambr2 posted about LaFleur basically telling Barry what to do with the defense at halftime.

LaFleur also blatantly alluded to it in his postgame presser.

Now...some might think 'oh that's not a big deal, I'm sure head coaches do that at times'. Well yeah, perhaps. But you never actually see the head coach basically put the defensive coordinator on front street like that.

There's a big difference in saying what Lafleur said (paraphrasing):

"I pretty much looked at Joe at halftime and said you either need to pressure or play coverage. Letting them have the best of both worlds just isn't going to cut it"

And saying:

"Yeah we weren't very good in the first half. But we were able to make some adjustments at halftime and I'm proud of the way we were able to step up defensively in the 2nd half."

Again, some might brush this off. But I'm sensing some early season frustration from LaFleur as it relates to Barry. Maybe it's a subtle message to Barry that he better be on top of his game to keep his job. Or maybe LaFleur has seen some things that really has him worried.

And it wasn't just a slip of the tongue either. Because LaFleur doubled down in his day after Tuesday press conference. It was intentional.

An even bigger aspect of this: Joa Berry denied that the conversation took place. He also threw MLF, IMHO, under the bus when he began talking about how they didn't play their starters in the preseason. By his statements I inferred it was MLFs decision and not what Berry wanted to do.

 

[Schultz]

Time to give Barry an extension. Packers D looked great stopping the SF run game.

 

[longtimefan]

Joe barry will step down and be HC of Detroit next week
Book it