Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[adambr2]

Can we talk about the Elephant in the Room now?

Yesterday, may have just extended Joe Barry's Career in GB.

Hats off to Joe for what he did yesterday. He put together a GREAT gameplan to stuff a very high scoring, dangerous Dallas offense, in THEIR house.

They allowed 32 points and 510 yards of total offense. (Nearly 38-40 points at the end)

I totally get that those numbers alone miss a lot of context. I know they did some things very well, particularly turnovers.

On the flip side, the effortlessly allowed 2 point conversions, and the alarmingly quick pace at which Dallas moved the ball in the last half of the 4th quarter, were a bit troubling.

Overall, I'm not sure it's a cumulative performance that significantly should move the needle for him.

I'd say the D played well, but it's also not like they held em to single digits. JB didn't get on the hot seat over 2 bad games and he shouldn't earn it all back over 2 good ones. I don't know why all of the sudden people are ready to hire him back over 2 good games and forget about the larger underachieving body of work. Making the assumption that it's going to carry over to next season is exactly what we did last year that caused us to bring him back again.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

They allowed 32 points and 510 yards of total offense. (Nearly 38-40 points at the end)

How many of those yards and points were given up after the score was 48-16 with most of the starters sitting on the bench? Asking for a friend.

 

[thequick12]

Who was the guy everybody wanted fired before they wanted Barry fired? And the guy before that?

True havent had a good d coordinator since Fritz Shurmur

 

[adambr2]

How many of those yards and points were given up after the score was 48-16 with most of the starters were sitting on the bench? Asking for a friend.

A lot. But the performance of your backups matters, all 53 of your players are expected to be able to perform at this level. Maybe not to the level of the starters, but enough not to be able to trust them not to have to put the game back in the hands of the starters.

And I DID disclaim that comment with the affirmation that some additional context was needed.

 

[adambr2]

True havent had a good d coordinator since Fritz Shurmur

I never disliked Ed Donatell.

Jim Bates was good even though the team sucked.

 

[gopkrs]

A lot. But the performance of your backups matters, all 53 of your players are expected to be able to perform at this level. Maybe not to the level of the starters, but enough not to be able to trust them not to have to put the game back in the hands of the starters.

And I DID disclaim that comment with the affirmation that some additional context was needed.

We also went into prevent both offensively and defensively.

 

[AKCheese]

I never disliked Ed Donatell.

Jim Bates was good even though the team sucked.

Nah … godda be Ditka

 

[milani]

How many of those yards and points were given up after the score was 48-16 with most of the starters were sitting on the bench? Asking for a friend.

I think it was also the prevent scheme. They were looking for Dallas to take time going down the field so they could go home quickly without injury. MLF really thought it was over. Did not really care about the score.

 

[PikeBadger]

It will be interesting if Barry has any answers for this extremely good 49er offense. An early 3 and out would certainly encourage me because I'm thinking right now that this is not a good matchup for our defense.

 

[Voyageur]

It will be interesting if Barry has any answers for this extremely good 49er offense. An early 3 and out would certainly encourage me because I'm thinking right now that this is not a good matchup for our defense.

I agree. With a tough running game, like SF has, and Purdy having some solid receivers to work with, including at TE, they're going to be a load. I'm hoping that the Packers can put on an early offensive show, scoring early, and force the 49ers to throw the ball consistently to stay with them. That would make them more one-dimensional, and easier to attack.

No matter what, unless the defense totally implodes, and gives up nearly 50 or more points, I don't see anything happening whatsoever in there being a change at DC in GB. There might be an assistant or two who end up gone, but that would be about it.

Just my opinion. I wait patiently for the banshee attack. LOL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A lot. But the performance of your backups matters, all 53 of your players are expected to be able to perform at this level. Maybe not to the level of the starters, but enough not to be able to trust them not to have to put the game back in the hands of the starters.

And I DID disclaim that comment with the affirmation that some additional context was needed.

Others have said it, but I can't repeat it enough, the 48-16 score heavily influenced what the Packer starters and backups on both sides of the ball did and didn't do. The goal at that point was to run the clock, as fast as possible. On defense, keep the ball in front of you, don't give up big chunk plays. On offense, run the ball, run the clock.

Now you and I could definitely agree on the fact that I think MLF and the Packers went into prevent defense and offense a bit too soon. Bottom line, they won the game, didn't suffer any major injuries (that I know of) while protecting the big lead and the final stats didn't determine the winner.

 

[Voyageur]

Others have said it, but I can't repeat it enough, the 48-16 score heavily influenced what the Packer starters and backups on both sides of the ball did and didn't do. The goal at that point was to run the clock, as fast as possible. On defense, keep the ball in front of you, don't give up big chunk plays. On offense, run the ball, run the clock.

Now you and I could definitely agree on the fact that I think MLF and the Packers went into prevent defense and offense a bit too soon. Bottom line, they won the game, didn't suffer any major injuries (that I know of) while protecting the big lead and the final stats didn't determine the winner.

I think pulling the core players, and using the back ups did a lot in telling the Packers what they needed to do, moving forward. The depth is lacking, and they need to upgrade. That's what the 2024 draft is all about. Upgrading.

beyonce upgrade ad - Google Search

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think pulling the core players, and using the back ups did a lot in telling the Packers what they needed to do, moving forward. The depth is lacking, and they need to upgrade. That's what the 2024 draft is all about. Upgrading.

Kind of like the final stats and score, I would be cautious about trying to draw any conclusions about players that played after the score was 48-16. This wasn't a preseason game where both the defense and the offense were being told "go out there and show us what you can do to make this team!" Undoubtably, they were all told to go out there, hold the lead and don't do anything stupid.

Now I can see it as a teaching moment for some, but your defense is in prevent mode, your offense is in "run the ball safely and burn clock" mode. Hard to get much out of that as far as scouting.

 

[BrokenArrow]

On the flip side, the effortlessly allowed 2 point conversions, and the alarmingly quick pace at which Dallas moved the ball in the last half of the 4th quarter, were a bit troubling.

Players doing their best to avoid injury in trash time... you're going to give up a few meaningless points and yards. Plus, they were on the field for almost 90 snaps due to our lousy offense scoring too damn fast.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Plus, they were on the field for almost 90 snaps due to our lousy offense scoring too damn fast

 

[BrokenArrow]

It will be interesting if Barry has any answers for this extremely good 49er offense. An early 3 and out would certainly encourage me because I'm thinking right now that this is not a good matchup for our defense.

Honestly, I don't think we're a good matchup for theirs either, or anyone else's for that matter. Nobody's offense is as balanced as ours and balance=unpredictability.

 

[milani]

I agree. With a tough running game, like SF has, and Purdy having some solid receivers to work with, including at TE, they're going to be a load. I'm hoping that the Packers can put on an early offensive show, scoring early, and force the 49ers to throw the ball consistently to stay with them. That would make them more one-dimensional, and easier to attack.

No matter what, unless the defense totally implodes, and gives up nearly 50 or more points, I don't see anything happening whatsoever in there being a change at DC in GB. There might be an assistant or two who end up gone, but that would be about it.

Just my opinion. I wait patiently for the banshee attack. LOL

What San Francisco has and has used for the last 15 years is a FB which we seldom see. And they knew how to use him effectively. You get in a 3rd and 2 or 3rd and goal inside the 5. You are thinking McCaffrey with the FB blocking. But then Purdy pulls it down and takes off behind the FB. Or he pulls it down and fires a strike to Deebo crossing the middle. And if they want a safe one Purdy fakes to McCaffrey rolls out and hits his FB in the flat just enough for a 1st down or a TD. Now I left out Kittle. Oh well.

 

[OkieCheesehead]

They allowed 32 points and 510 yards of total offense. (Nearly 38-40 points at the end)

I totally get that those numbers alone miss a lot of context. I know they did some things very well, particularly turnovers.

On the flip side, the effortlessly allowed 2 point conversions, and the alarmingly quick pace at which Dallas moved the ball in the last half of the 4th quarter, were a bit troubling.

Overall, I'm not sure it's a cumulative performance that significantly should move the needle for him.

I'd say the D played well, but it's also not like they held em to single digits. JB didn't get on the hot seat over 2 bad games and he shouldn't earn it all back over 2 good ones. I don't know why all of the sudden people are ready to hire him back over 2 good games and forget about the larger underachieving body of work. Making the assumption that it's going to carry over to next season is exactly what we did last year that caused us to bring him back again.

Statistics don’t tell the whole story. This game was over when we gave them some garbage time TDs

 

[adambr2]

Statistics don’t tell the whole story. This game was over when we gave them some garbage time TDs

Again I understand that context is needed here.

I'm just saying it wasn't a total, 60 minute performance that just erased all the concerns we ever had about this defense.

It's just a little wild to me that we are talking about an extension for a coordinator that was widely panned literally 2 weeks ago and literally had about 99% disapproval rating among Packer fans. It's been TWO GAMES.

It's no more rational to do a complete 180 based on 2 games than it is to call for heads based on 2 games. We might give up 200 yards to CMC and 40 points to the 49ers and be left wondering why we were even having this discussion. Or maybe the defense goes absolutely bonkers and leads us all the way. But until that actually happens -- it's just two games.

 

[OkieCheesehead]

Again I understand that context is needed here.

I'm just saying it wasn't a total, 60 minute performance that just erased all the concerns we ever had about this defense.

It's just a little wild to me that we are talking about an extension for a coordinator that was widely panned literally 2 weeks ago and literally had about 99% disapproval rating among Packer fans. It's been TWO GAMES.

It's no more rational to do a complete 180 based on 2 games than it is to call for heads based on 2 games. We might give up 200 yards to CMC and 40 points to the 49ers and be left wondering why we were even having this discussion. Or maybe the defense goes absolutely bonkers and leads us all the way. But until that actually happens -- it's just two games.

That’s fair. I usually think we’re all too quick to jump on to coordinators to be fired. Like when Capers was here fans were on him to be fired for years. Same with Pettine. Firing the DC isn’t a fix-all, as we’ve seen when we got rid of both those coordinators. However, out of the three of those guys Barry has by and large been the worst. At least Pettine and Capers had years where we were at the top of the league in defense.

 

[Voyageur]

I think people tend to forget that the Packers ranked 12th in points against them. They give up an average under 22. A little better than the league average. So we aren't anywhere close to being the disaster area people like to claim, and this was done with a lot of injuries to key players. The screams for Barry to be replaced aren't of any interest to the people inside the organization, and I can understand why. Barry will be back next year.

What we all should be doing is hoping he can put together schemes like he did this past game for the Cowboys. They have a young QB, and he might fall into a few traps. Let's hope that's the result.

 

[adambr2]

That’s fair. I usually think we’re all too quick to jump on to coordinators to be fired. Like when Capers was here fans were on him to be fired for years. Same with Pettine. Firing the DC isn’t a fix-all, as we’ve seen when we got rid of both those coordinators. However, out of the three of those guys Barry has by and large been the worst. At least Pettine and Capers had years where we were at the top of the league in defense.

I honestly didn't think Pettine was that bad. It's just the one glaring mistake he made (Cover 1 with no safety help for Kevin King in the NFCCG against Tampa) was so inexplicable, so unexplainable, when ALL he had to do was keep the play funneled away from the endzone or sidelines, that we just had no choice but to move on.

Capers I see as a guy who came here with a history of success, did some really good things for us, helped us win a Super Bowl, and as time went by he just couldn't keep up with the modernization of the game anymore and it just became time to move on.

 

[adambr2]

I think people tend to forget that the Packers ranked 12th in points against them. They give up an average under 22. A little better than the league average. So we aren't anywhere close to being the disaster area people like to claim, and this was done with a lot of injuries to key players. The screams for Barry to be replaced aren't of any interest to the people inside the organization, and I can understand why. Barry will be back next year.

What we all should be doing is hoping he can put together schemes like he did this past game for the Cowboys. They have a young QB, and he might fall into a few traps. Let's hope that's the result.

Pretty bold statement to definitively say Barry will be back next year. I would still consider it more likely than not that he will not return, and I think anything other than a very good performance today would pretty much be a nail in his coffin.

Remember, Barry is on an expiring contract, meaning he would actually have to be re-signed ....making the opportunity to walk away and start over pretty painless for the FO. MLF himself hasn't been overly stout in his commitment moving forward to Barry.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the defense is a disaster area moreso than it's being claimed that they have underachieved their talent level the last 3 seasons, which I think is a fair claim.

 

[Voyageur]

Pretty bold statement to definitively say Barry will be back next year. I would still consider it more likely than not that he will not return, and I think anything other than a very good performance today would pretty much be a nail in his coffin.

Remember, Barry is on an expiring contract, meaning he would actually have to be re-signed ....making the opportunity to walk away and start over pretty painless for the FO. MLF himself hasn't been overly stout in his commitment moving forward to Barry.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the defense is a disaster area moreso than it's being claimed that they have underachieved their talent level the last 3 seasons, which I think is a fair claim.

I understand what you mean. I actually believed he was history quite some time ago. Then, as the Packers went on their 8-3 streak, I started to see things he was doing that was improving the defense, despite the fact that they were dealing with an enormous number of injuries.

Am I happy with the defense? Not overly, but I do know we're in the upper half of the league and that's not bad. I also know that as soon as the offense started to move the ball a little more consistently, the defense kept improving, and they have ended up complimenting each other, and we have even avenged losses, like we did when we beat the Lions the 2nd time around.

I don't see where the Packers are going to want to change things up on defense after this year. It would set them behind. We have draft capital, and what appears to be some respectable young players, and draft picks that can shore a lot of weaknesses up. Changing it up wouldn't be helpful.

Anyhow, that's my opinion. If they play a tough game today, and advance, with the defense giving up under 20 points, you won't be able to budge LeFleur and Gute into dumping Barry.

 

[gopkrs]

I honestly didn't think Pettine was that bad. It's just the one glaring mistake he made (Cover 1 with no safety help for Kevin King in the NFCCG against Tampa) was so inexplicable, so unexplainable, when ALL he had to do was keep the play funneled away from the endzone or sidelines, that we just had no choice but to move on.

Capers I see as a guy who came here with a history of success, did some really good things for us, helped us win a Super Bowl, and as time went by he just couldn't keep up with the modernization of the game anymore and it just became time to move on.

I know there were other factors but for me he lost that Seattle game with his 3 man rushes. And the 3 man rush was part of his game. Same with Pettine. We have stayed away from that for the most part and hope we continue not to use it.