Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[milani]

Barry seems to be calling a much better game lately.

When Romo described one play as " Great Call by Joe Barry " I cringed.

 

[BrokenArrow]

When Romo described one play as " Great Call by Joe Barry " I cringed.

I attribute the recent turnaround since Carolina to two things: Savage back on the field making coverage adjustments and MLF having more of a hand on the defensive side of the ball, which he said he was going to have to do after the Bucs game.

 

[longtimefan]

Hell of a job by the defense today.

Think about it..
What players played today that haven't in a while

 

[longtimefan]

I attribute the recent turnaround since Carolina to two things: Savage back on the field making coverage adjustments and MLF having more of a hand on the defensive side of the ball, which he said he was going to have to do after the Bucs game.

And what players are back?

 

[AKCheese]

Top 10 in preventing the other team from scoring? Hmmmmmmmmm Held the other team to 9 when we needed win? Hmmmmmmm …. Yeah but but but if you take the yards allowed in the 4th quarter divided by the total draft position of our starters (plus 1/11th x12 of our nickle corner) minus .375 of the number of our opponents offense on IR (with a 2x multiplier for skill positions… 5x for quarterback ) we were in the bottom half of the middle third of teams that made the playoffs more than 4 times in the last 12 years… so ..:

 

[Firethorn1001]

Top 10 in preventing the other team from scoring? Hmmmmmmmmm Held the other team to 9 when we needed win? Hmmmmmmm …. Yeah but but but if you take the yards allowed in the 4th quarter divided by the total draft position of our starters (plus 1/11th x12 of our nickle corner) minus .375 of the number of our opponents offense on IR (with a 2x multiplier for skill positions… 5x for quarterback ) we were in the bottom half of the middle third of teams that made the playoffs more than 4 times in the last 12 years… so ..:

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[Dantés]

Top 10 in preventing the other team from scoring? Hmmmmmmmmm Held the other team to 9 when we needed win? Hmmmmmmm …. Yeah but but but if you take the yards allowed in the 4th quarter divided by the total draft position of our starters (plus 1/11th x12 of our nickle corner) minus .375 of the number of our opponents offense on IR (with a 2x multiplier for skill positions… 5x for quarterback ) we were in the bottom half of the middle third of teams that made the playoffs more than 4 times in the last 12 years… so ..:

Points/Game Allowed: 10th @ 20.6

Points/Drive Allowed: 22nd @ 1.99

On balance, this Packers defense was bad. They didn't allow a ton of points overall because they tended to die slow. The average drive against them lasted 2:59, which was the 3rd highest in the NFL. If you limit opposing scoring just by letting them burn more time on their drives, you're not helping your team. The lower points scored is just a product of fewer drives, not good defense. And remember, longer drives against your defense also means fewer drives for your offense and thus fewer opportunities to score.

 

[Dantés]

Given that Petals needed to interject himself into the defensive side of the ball a lot more just to get the results down the stretch, hopefully Barry's fate is sealed regardless of what happens.

 

[gopkrs]

When Romo described one play as " Great Call by Joe Barry " I cringed.

Now that I have had some time to think about it. I wonder if we could have made that final first down on the ground against a better team. And if LaFleur would have ran on 3rd down instead of passing for the 1st. And then if Barry would have gone into prevent and allowed the bears to go down the field with a chance of tying it up. Anyway great to be playing so well and going into the playoffs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It sounds like Players such as Preston Smith are all in on Joe Barry. Making the Playoffs is nice, but if we go down to Dallas and the Defense gets shredded, it best be time that Matt wakes up and looks for a DC that will not need a game against the Bears to save his job.

My fear is if Barry stays, the Kenny Pickett, Tommy DeVito, and Bryce Young's of the NFL will continue to have the best games of their careers against the Packers.

Yes, the Defense played better against the Vikings and the Bears, but I also think that had a lot to do with the offenses that those 2 teams have.

Dallas will be more of a true litmus test as to just how far Joe Barry has or has not brought his defense.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

There should be no scenario, literally nothing should happen that prevents Joe Barry from being let go at the end of this season. The Panthers put up 30 points against the packers, those were the last points they scored for the season. The packers gave up 64 points combined to the Bucs and Panthers...those two teams played yesterday and the final score was 9-0. Joe Barry as DC has been a travesty as a DC.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There should be no scenario, literally nothing should happen that prevents Joe Barry from being let go at the end of this season.

Packers win their next 4 games and the defense plays lights out.

While I agree with your post and hope that Barry is gone, it seems like the NFL is more of a "what have you done for me lately?" league.

With guys like Preston Smith and Quay Walker speaking highly of Barry after yesterdays game, unless the Defense gets completely shelled by the Cowboys, I am afraid that Barry might be given another season.

 

[Magooch]

Ask yourself this: on the whole, over the span of his time as Packers DC...have Joe Barry's defenses had more generally "good" or "above-average" performances or more "bad" or "below-average" performances?

In general I think we can fairly confidently say that the below-average performances have outweighed the above-average ones.

For the most part I've been pleased with how the defense has performed over the past two games but I'm also largely of the opinion that this is probably a bit of a false image and certainly not one that should be used as justification to bring back Barry. I've said it before but there's a famous quote (I think it is Maya Angelou) that says "When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time". Barry was a terrible DC prior to joining us, and since then the best we can say is that he's been a mediocre one for us overall (and I'm being charitable).

I think, then, that it is far more likely that we would see a "regression towards the mean" should we continue on with Barry. There will always be some outliers but by and large we should expect defensive performances like the past two weeks to be the "exception" whereas defensive performances like Tampa, New York, Carolina, etc are more like the "rule."

 

[AmishMafia]

Packers win their next 4 games and the defense plays lights out.

While I agree with your post and hope that Barry is gone, it seems like the NFL is more of a "what have you done for me lately?" league.

With guys like Preston Smith and Quay Walker speaking highly of Barry after yesterdays game, unless the Defense gets completely shelled by the Cowboys, I am afraid that Barry might be given another season.

Absolutely. Good defense and a SB victory? Don't mess with what works even if its not pretty along the way.

I would like to hear what Quay and Preston have to say in private before I let that sway me.

Barry has not earned another year.

But . . .

The last 2 games were pretty good defensively. Perhaps MLF more involved with the defense has led to some changes that will be long lasting.

I'm going to take a stab at this that Barry comes up with game plans and that is it. If it was me, I would come up with my GP and then look at the opposing OC history and tools at their disposal and figure out how they may counter. Then I would work on my plans to counter those things.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm going to take a stab at this that Barry comes up with game plans and that is it. If it was me, I would come up with my GP and then look at the opposing OC history and tools at their disposal and figure out how they may counter. Then I would work on my plans to counter those things.

Agree with your entire post, but this last part is where I see Joe Barry consistently failing. The Bears came out yesterday and appeared they would shred Barry's defense all day. One of the broadcasters commented on the fact that Bear's OC had a great game plan on how to attack Barry's defense.

Barry seems to come out of the gates with a predictable plan, one that opposing OC's study and know how to beat. Barry doesn't call enough blitzes in my opinion. He plays way too soft when the offense is putting up points and leading.

I have watched more NFL and college games this season than I normally do and the defenses that impress me the most are the ones that don't let the opponent past their 50 on a consistent basis, no matter what the score is. Sure, Barry's defense kept the Bears out of the EZ yesterday, but it wasn't like they were forcing 3 and outs.

Barry needs to adjust his game plan from game to game, based on the QB and the offense that he will be facing. Then he needs to be prepared to make in-game adjustments as needed.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Packers win their next 4 games and the defense plays lights out.

While I agree with your post and hope that Barry is gone, it seems like the NFL is more of a "what have you done for me lately?" league.

With guys like Preston Smith and Quay Walker speaking highly of Barry after yesterdays game, unless the Defense gets completely shelled by the Cowboys, I am afraid that Barry might be given another season.

Nope, the defense could give up zero total points on the way to a Super Bowl and Joe Barry should still be replaced. He's the worst defensive coordinator in the NFL. End of case. The Panthers scored 30 points against his defense and then didn't score another point over the final two games of their season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Nope, the defense could give up zero total points on the way to a Super Bowl and Joe Barry should still be replaced.

Well if that happens, Packers win SB and the defense gives up zero points in those 4 games, I would be absolutely shocked if Barry was giving his marching orders.

We all know that won't happen, but if the D continues to play well, he might be back, no matter how much any of us don't want him to be.

 

[ClutchLove]

Well if that happens, Packers win SB and the defense gives up zero points in those 4 games, I would be absolutely shocked if Barry was giving his marching orders.

We all know that won't happen, but if the D continues to play well, he might be back, no matter how much any of us don't want him to be.

It's also about getting 'hot"....

I mean Barry has consistently "misused" his players... I mean to say "The Packers D is underperforming to expectations" is a HUUUUUGE understatement lol

 

[milani]

It sounds like Players such as Preston Smith are all in on Joe Barry. Making the Playoffs is nice, but if we go down to Dallas and the Defense gets shredded, it best be time that Matt wakes up and looks for a DC that will not need a game against the Bears to save his job.

My fear is if Barry stays, the Kenny Pickett, Tommy DeVito, and Bryce Young's of the NFL will continue to have the best games of their careers against the Packers.

Yes, the Defense played better against the Vikings and the Bears, but I also think that had a lot to do with the offenses that those 2 teams have.

Dallas will be more of a true litmus test as to just how far Joe Barry has or has not brought his defense.

Cowboys offense is at a different level. A few teams did put the clamps on them this season. But to slow them up you have to force turnovers. They have too many skilled players to just outplay them. The last 2 seasons ended for them at the hands of the 9ers. They are primed to stop that.

 

[AKCheese]

Points/Game Allowed: 10th @ 20.6

Points/Drive Allowed: 22nd @ 1.99

On balance, this Packers defense was bad. They didn't allow a ton of points overall because they tended to die slow. The average drive against them lasted 2:59, which was the 3rd highest in the NFL. If you limit opposing scoring just by letting them burn more time on their drives, you're not helping your team. The lower points scored is just a product of fewer drives, not good defense. And remember, longer drives against your defense also means fewer drives for your offense and thus fewer opportunities to score.

And yet (correct me if I’m wrong) wins and losses are awarded based on the team that scores more points than their opponents … LOL

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Well if that happens, Packers win SB and the defense gives up zero points in those 4 games, I would be absolutely shocked if Barry was giving his marching orders.

We all know that won't happen, but if the D continues to play well, he might be back, no matter how much any of us don't want him to be.

I’d be worried if i actually thought Barry was any good at his job. These hypotheticals basically amount to “if Joe Barry runs a defense he’s literally never run in his career then…”

I have a strong feeling the “shine” rubs off in Dallas and we get to watch Love overcome a terrible defensive scheme to outscore Dallas. Best case? MM kicks field goals from the two and the packers score TDs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I’d be worried if i actually thought Barry was any good at his job. These hypotheticals basically amount to “if Joe Barry runs a defense he’s literally never run in his career then…”

You previously stated this:

There should be no scenario, literally nothing should happen that prevents Joe Barry from being let go at the end of this season.

I was just giving you scenarios that would probably result in Barry keeping his job.

Now I am going to play Devils Advocate and use the same logic as you have used when you claim it was a mistake to draft Jordan Love, since in your eyes, another player probably would have taken us to a SB. Let's say MLF listened to all of us at midseason and fired Barry. Would a new DC have been able to step right in and instantly improve things? Would the Packers have ended the year at 9-8? We will never know the answer to that, but I am 99% sure you will say "anyone would have been better than Barry". Would you fire Barry today?

One thing we don't know, is if there are issues outside of Barry, ie players attitudes? Was Alexander going rogue a sign of that? Of course, ultimately Barry is responsible for the defense, while he can't make the actual tackles, he can get his players ready to play and in position to do so. If players aren't disciplined enough, he needs to crack the whip. If players are taking plays off, he needs to do something to stop it.

Anyway, yeah, I think most of us, myself included, thought it was time for Barry to go 2 years ago, but this season sadly may have bought him another year. What does Gute and MLF see in Barry that keeps him in GB? I don't know, but I sure hope we see it in the next 4 games (of this season).

 

[milani]

I’d be worried if i actually thought Barry was any good at his job. These hypotheticals basically amount to “if Joe Barry runs a defense he’s literally never run in his career then…”

I have a strong feeling the “shine” rubs off in Dallas and we get to watch Love overcome a terrible defensive scheme to outscore Dallas. Best case? MM kicks field goals from the two and the packers score TDs.

We got skewed with Barry this year. We only played a handful of good offenses in 2023. Next years schedule right now appears obviously more difficult. If he is back what would be the result even if Love and the offense put up points?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We got skewed with Barry this year. We only played a handful of good offenses in 2023. Next years schedule right now appears obviously more difficult. If he is back what would be the result even if Love and the offense put up points?

Agree and besides Mohomes, the only other decent QB's the Packers defense went up against was Cousins (once) and Goff (twice). They caught a break when Stafford and Jones were both hurt when facing the Rams and Giants, yet they still lost to the Giants.

Just realized that by finishing second in the North, the Packers 3 "random" games in 2024 will be @ Eagles (2nd in NFC East) and home against the Saints (2nd in NFC South) and Dolphins (2nd in AFC East).

 

[milani]

Agree and besides Mohomes, the only other decent QB's the Packers defense went up against was Cousins (once) and Goff (twice). They caught a break when Stafford and Jones were both hurt when facing the Rams and Giants, yet they still lost to the Giants.

Just realized that by finishing second in the North, the Packers 3 "random" games in 2024 will be @ Eagles (2nd in NFC East) and home against the Saints (2nd in NFC South) and Dolphins (2nd in AFC East).

They also get the NFC West and the AFC South.