Fire Capers

[Pokerbrat2000]

The #s 2 and 3 CB's haven't been any great shakes when they've been on the field, either.

I agree, while both showed promise as rookies last year, neither of them seem to have improved, with Rollins actually looking worse, but that also has something to do with him now having to play as the #1.

When Shields, Randall and Rollins all went down, IMO, it was inexcusable that TT did not look outside of his own system for help. If there was anyone on the coaching staff trying to convince him that Gunter, Goodson, Hawkins and anyone else were adequate replacements to step up in their place, they should be shoveling snow off the Lambeau bleachers this Dec.

 

[Mondio]

The #s 2 and 3 CB's haven't been any great shakes when they've been on the field, either.

why do you think that is? do you think they suck? did you think they sucked last year? I didn't. I think they were getting tossed into situations that really challenged them early on so they'd learn faster. We had the schedule ( at least on paper, to do that). Then everything started happening.

Rollins is this year Adams for me. He may be playing, but he doesn't look the same physically to me at this point. I suspect his game will improve from where it has been.

 

[PackerDNA]

why do you think that is? do you think they suck? did you think they sucked last year? I didn't. I think they were getting tossed into situations that really challenged them early on so they'd learn faster. We had the schedule ( at least on paper, to do that). Then everything started happening.

Rollins is this year Adams for me. He may be playing, but he doesn't look the same physically to me at this point. I suspect his game will improve from where it has been.

Last year, I was pleased with Randall and Rollins. I thought that with time, they could be good players- never to be mistaken for the top DB's in the game, never great, but above average and more than good enough to win with.
Having seen them this year, I don't know now.
This defense is like watching the Keystone Kops. I have never seen such egregious , horrible play and technique as I've seen too many times this year. On any level of football. Many times they look like guys who have literally never played before.
Mondio, while I appreciate your cooler heads approach and not willing to join the pitchforks and torches mobs, there has to come a time when you say enough is enough, this ain't cuttin' it. How many games, years does it take to see this isn't close to good enough, and it's getting worse. You harp on injuries. While they're a factor, they aren't the reason. Every team has injuries; most continue to perform at a high level. Why can the Patriots play a game without Brady, Gronk, a top WR, their #'s 1 thru 3 RB's and a starting Olineman or two and still put up 30 points?
The draft and develop philosophy as a stand alone method of player acquisition doesn't work. It takes a very bad team, clears up it's cap, gets rid of dead weight and makes you a playoff team every year. It cannot by itself get you over the hump, or even keep you as a playoff team. Many posters have pointed it out here quite well; it can't keep filling all the leaks that spring , much less get you enough top players or good enough depth.
Overall, this roster is closer to NFL Europe in quality than that of a Super Bowl contender.

 

[pacmaniac]

Let's not give Capers the excuse of injuries or lack of talent, because it's not just this season that the D is bad. Capers has been with the team for 8 seasons now, and 7 of those seasons the D has been bad. It's time for him to go.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Let's not give Capers the excuse of injuries or lack of talent, because it's not just this season that the D is bad. Capers has been with the team for 8 seasons now, and 7 of those seasons the D has been bad. It's time for him to go.

The defense hasn't been that bad as the Packers are ninth in points allowed in the league during Capers tenure.

 

[Half Empty]

Per Pro Football Reference:

2016 - 27th
2015 - 12th
2014 - 13th
2013 - 24th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 19th
2010 - 2nd
2009 - 7th

Depending, as always, on definitions, two seasons unquestionably bad, two really good, four middle of the pack. The big thing I take away from this is the conventional wisdom knock on Capers - good D early, then not so much.

 

[gopkrs]

If this season keeps humming along like it has for about 18 months now; then I think Mark Murphy is the man on the hotseat. Does he have balls or is he just there? Capers has only looked good in spots. And not enough of them. McCarthy's offensive genius is a compete myth. Our players do not look well coached and except for wide outs and the Rodgers pick; Thompson has not done a good job drafting. The only reason we have done as well as we have...I will give you one guess. (Obviously excluding these last two years for which "suck" is about right.)

 

[pacmaniac]

Capers defenses always collapse when it matters. Warner shredded us in 2009. Defense was DEAD LAST in yardage in 2011. Kapernick shredded us in 2012 and 13. Collapsed against Seattle in 2014. Collapsed in OT last season.

 

[OldSchool101]

Thompson has not done a good job drafting. The only reason we have done as well as we have...I will give you one guess. (Obviously excluding these last two years for which "suck" is about right.)

Is it Our Lucky Squirrel?

 

[gopkrs]

HaHa. I wish it was. As in "rather be lucky than good."

 

[Croak]

Per Pro Football Reference:

2016 - 27th
2015 - 12th
2014 - 13th
2013 - 24th
2012 - 11th
2011 - 19th
2010 - 2nd
2009 - 7th

Depending, as always, on definitions, two seasons unquestionably bad, two really good, four middle of the pack. The big thing I take away from this is the conventional wisdom knock on Capers - good D early, then not so much.

And did you notice, the first post in this thread was in 2012. Now if the fans on this board were questioning his defense back then, what is his appeal to the team management? I mean from 2012 on, the defense has been mediocre at best. But, I'm flogging a long dead horse.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And did you notice, the first post in this thread was in 2012. Now if the fans on this board were questioning his defense back then, what is his appeal to the team management? I mean from 2012 on, the defense has been mediocre at best. But, I'm flogging a long dead horse.

Well, unfortunately the talent level hasn't been better than mediocre over that period either. Therefore I'm not convinced it's Capers fault the defense hasn't performed any better.

 

[rodell330]

I agree with a lot of posters that Capers doesn't deserve a pass but unfortunately he has been dealt several players not being talented enough to perform at the oro level by Thompson.



Capers didn't blitz both safeties on that play but Kentrell Brice being lined up at free safety mistead the play providing help over the top to Burnett covering Davis. At the time he realized Cousins was targeting Crowder he wasn't able to get there in time to break up the pass.

He definitely blitzed the safety.

 

[Half Empty]

However, when can one be sure? Ultimately, it's Capers responsibility to field the best possible defense. Maybe it is impossible with the pieces he's been given, but maybe it isn't - and there's no way of knowing without giving someone else the chance. I'm in that camp that has no ready response to the 'who would you replace him with?' question, but I think it is reasonable to want someone else to have a shot.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He definitely blitzed the safety.

Yeah, he blitzed one safety but not both of them as you mentioned.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

However, when can one be sure? Ultimately, it's Capers responsibility to field the best possible defense. Maybe it is impossible with the pieces he's been given, but maybe it isn't - and there's no way of knowing without giving someone else the chance. I'm in that camp that has no ready response to the 'who would you replace him with?' question, but I think it is reasonable to want someone else to have a shot.

Well said. In my mind there is something not clicking between TT and Capers with the talent that TT is giving him or what Capers is doing with that talent. Whether TT is just not as great of a judge with drafting defensive players or Capers just isn't that great of a development coach, I am not quite sure.

Besides Clay Matthews, who I think had a lot of talent when drafted, what defensive player has been drafted by the Packers and dramatically improved their game from college to now under Capers? Mike Daniels is the only name that comes to mind.

Put some blame on TT for maybe not being able to draft the right guys, but with as many first rounders that he has given Capers to work with, you would think this defense would be better then it is. Capers may have a brilliant defensive mind, but he seems to lack in the ability to coach players up or at least hire assistants that are able to do that.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well said. In my mind there is something not clicking between TT and Capers with the talent that TT is giving him or what Capers is doing with that talent. Whether TT is just not as great of a judge with drafting defensive players or Capers just isn't that great of a development coach, I am not quite sure.

Besides Clay Matthews, who I think had a lot of talent when drafted, what defensive player has been drafted by the Packers and dramatically improved their game from college to now under Capers? Mike Daniels is the only name that comes to mind.

Put some blame on TT for maybe not being able to draft the right guys, but with as many first rounders that he has given Capers to work with, you would think this defense would be better then it is. Capers may have a brilliant defensive mind, but he seems to lack in the ability to coach players up or at least hire assistants that are able to do that.

It's possible that a lack of talent is mainly responsible for the Packers defense struggling over the last few seasons. Players leaving Green Bay for other teams not performing any better with different defensive coordinators might be an indication for it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's possible that a lack of talent is mainly responsible for the Packers defense struggling over the last few seasons. Players leaving Green Bay for other teams not performing any better with different defensive coordinators might be an indication for it.

Hayward might be an exception to that now, but you are correct, TT may have more blame in this then Capers. Especially if you want to include the piece of not adequately using Free Agency to help the defense.

Bottom line for me, the 2 don't seem be on the same page when it comes to taking college talent, evaluating it and then coaching it up so a change is in order. Capers may end up being the fall guy, but if TT ends up staying in GB, he needs to get the new DC some immediate talent to work with.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hayward might be an exception to that now, but you are correct, TT may have more blame in this then Capers. Especially if you want to include the piece of not adequately using Free Agency to help the defense.

Bottom line for me, the 2 don't seem be on the same page when it comes to taking college talent, evaluating it and then coaching it up so a change is in order. Capers may end up being the fall guy, but if TT ends up staying in GB, he needs to get the new DC some immediate talent to work with.

Hayward played pretty well for the Packers as long as he was lined up in the slot. Unfortunately Capers had to use him on the perimeter from time to time as well.

I agree that Thompson's draft and develop philosophy isn't a good fit for Capers scheme though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree that Thompson's draft and develop philosophy isn't a good fit for Capers scheme though.

So if we are correct in this assumption and TT stays and isn't going to change his ways, which I don't see him doing, you kind of have to say goodbye to Capers ?

 

[gopkrs]

It is not only Capers. I am not seeing a well coached team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The other aspect of the Packers defense which troubles me is team speed. I don't know if it's slow guys in general or scheme related, but it just looks like we play slower then other teams.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So if we are correct in this assumption and TT stays and isn't going to change his ways, which I don't see him doing, you kind of have to say goodbye to Capers ?

I agree with this conclusion but if the Packers continue to struggle for the rest of the season more extensive changes might be in store.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree with this conclusion but if the Packers continue to struggle for the rest of the season more extensive changes might be in store.

Totally agree and actually expect it. This dysfunction between TT and Capers of draft and develop that is happening on the defense hasn't escaped the offense as well.

 

[rodell330]

The other aspect of the Packers defense which troubles me is team speed. I don't know if it's slow guys in general or scheme related, but it just looks like we play slower then other teams.

The team speed is slow. The only guy who could run with ppl is on IR in Sam Shields. Another reason why they play so much zone.