Favre and Packer image tarnished

[digsthepack]

Well, that is about 40 percent of your games trom. No small percentage. Look, going all the way back to the GB News Chronicle forum, I defended Sherman up intil the end of the 2003 season. But beyond that his image lost luster as he let games get away from him by conservqtive and predictable play. As I have been saying for some time now, Sherman has ALOT of nice qualities for a HC, but his few weaknesses are killers.

Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. I am not going to change your mind and you will certainly not change mine.

So, what do you think, is Daunte Culpepper a great QB because he has stats? Is he a bad QB because he melts under pressure? There is a direct analogy to be made to MS and this is the basis for my opinion on MS...great stats, folds under pressure.

Hey, this is why we have both chocolate and vanilla ice cream!

 

[WinnipegPackFan]

GB isnt forcing Brett out.

GB isnt saying "We'll let you come back after you judge our moves."

GB isn't saying "we'll wait and see."

That's BRETT FAVRE.

Not looking for a debate here trom but trust me when I say:

How this situation with Brett and the Pack finally ends will have a unbelievable impact on how our Green bay Packer Organization is looked at in the future. I for one, do not want to see our image tarnished by not handling Brett's final year / years in the best possible way imaginable !!

This situation is bigger than how many games we win next year, this situation will be judged by the fans and media for years to come. Let the judgement be positive !!!

 

[tromadz]

Oh I know, I know. But if people were to tell you 6 years ago, that GB would force Favre out...

you wouldnt think Favre would be saying "I'll wait and see" "What are they going to do, cut me?" Or he will judge their moves.

If someone were to tell me Favre would be pushed out, id assume Favre was the ultimate victim, but...hes anything but here.

 

[WinnipegPackFan]

Oh I know, I know. But if people were to tell you 6 years ago, that GB would force Favre out...

you wouldnt think Favre would be saying "I'll wait and see" "What are they going to do, cut me?" Or he will judge their moves.

If someone were to tell me Favre would be pushed out, id assume Favre was the ultimate victim, but...hes anything but here.

When a man such as Brett who has shown nothing but respect for this Organization starts making comments like these after 14 years, don't you sometimes ask yourself why ?

 

[tromadz]

yes, I do.

Do YOU know the answer?

 

[espnpack]

Well, that is about 40 percent of your games trom. No small percentage. Look, going all the way back to the GB News Chronicle forum, I defended Sherman up intil the end of the 2003 season. But beyond that his image lost luster as he let games get away from him by conservqtive and predictable play. As I have been saying for some time now, Sherman has ALOT of nice qualities for a HC, but his few weaknesses are killers.

Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. I am not going to change your mind and you will certainly not change mine.

So, what do you think, is Daunte Culpepper a great QB because he has stats? Is he a bad QB because he melts under pressure? There is a direct analogy to be made to MS and this is the basis for my opinion on MS...great stats, folds under pressure.

Hey, this is why we have both chocolate and vanilla ice cream!

I very much agree with your last statment.

I do find it sad, though, that a Packer Fan would compare/equate Mike Sherman to Duante Culpepper.

I think people spend way toooooo much time on One individual. We found out (again) how miserable a season can be when you are constantly overmatched personnel-wise on the football field last year.

The "fold under pressure" stuff is pretty bogus and ambiguous-type of an argument. Sherman's teams finished pretty much where they should have, based upon what was in the tank. Also, when you are at the top (or near the top) of your league for such an extended period of time, it is going to be harder and harder each year to maintain. Maintaining can, in some respects, be considered a pretty good accomplishment. (The alternative, is to "shut it down" and start over...and that is sort of the process we are in now. How it turns out will determine the legacy of TT. I'm hoping that in 3-5 years we are back, competing for Division Championships, along with boasting a team and chemistry that has a shot at League and World Championships!!!!!

 

[P@ck66]

Really espn..

Then why were NO TEAMS jumping to sign Mike Sherman this year as HC...?? Were they afraid that his pet hump..Tom Rossley..would be part of a package deal..??

I would be willing to bet cash money that Mike Sherman never gets another HC opportunity in the NFL ever again...!!!

(the perception of this guy changes dramatically once you get out of the confines of GB..Wis...)

 

[espnpack]

Really espn..

Then why were NO TEAMS jumping to sign Mike Sherman this year as HC...?? Were they afraid that his pet hump..Tom Rossley..would be part of a package deal..??

I would be willing to bet cash money that Mike Sherman never gets another HC opportunity in the NFL ever again...!!!

(the perception of this guy changes dramatically once you get out of the confines of GB..Wis...)

I think Gary Kubiak is very happy to have him on board.

Maybe those other teams made mistakes? You certainly are no expert.

I think the perception of Mike Sherman is, and should be pretty good. He outperformed 75% of his peers.

Your comments are the kind I was mentioning that make me be somewhat embarassed as to the quality of Packer Fan out there right now...(not meant to demean, just an observation based on my personal opinion...)

 

[longtimefan]

One will never know if it was MS doing an outstanding job or if Brett had more to do with it..Or was a combo of both...

I think in the beginning MS did a great job, but somewhere after that Jets beating something happened, and he never recovered....

 

[tromadz]

Well, that is about 40 percent of your games trom. No small percentage.

Oh i hear ya, its just that, not all of our games are against those jobbers in the north

and NOW those guys arent jobbers anymore!

Chicago is up and coming, and if they can get an offense, can be trouble
Vikings...nevermind
Lions have great weapons and now some QBs!

 

[Anubis]

I am not dismissing the record that MS accumulated during his time, it is in the record books. I am simply saying there is a big difference winning against quality opposition and a bunch of weak sisters. You can at least be honest and recognize the horrid state of the NFC Central/North during Sherman's tenure....and that the weak division had an impact in accumulating that record.

Lemme ask you...if the Packers had to play 10 games against the Steelers, and 10 games against the Detroit Lions...where do you think they have the best chance of ringing up wins? If you answered the Lions, you are correct....and honest. The NFC Central/North has been the Lions for a long time.

Why is this basic concept of winning is easier against ****** opponents so hard to understand?

I think I am missing something here:

If I am not mistaken, GB plays each of its 3 division rivals 6 times during a season. That is once at home and once away for the Bears, Lions and Queens. The NFL regular season runs 16 weeks. That means that GB also plays teams from other divisions an additional 10 games throughout the season.

From: http://www.packers.com/pdfs/2002-09schedule.pdf

Under the new scheduling formula, every team within a division will play 16 games as follows:

**Home and away against its three division opponents (six games).

**The four teams from another division within its conference on a rotating three-year cycle (four games).

**The four teams from a division in the other conference on a rotating four-year cycle (four games).

**Two intraconference games based on the previous year's standings (two games). These games will match a first-place team against the first-place teams in the two sameconference divisions the team is not scheduled to play that season. The second-place, third-place, and fourth-place teams in a conference will be matched in the same way each year.

Now, I don't recall GB having a 6-10 season, though there have been teams that have in both the NFC and AFC. In 2004, the Queens managed to score a Wild Card berth with only an 8-8 record. This means that there were no teams in the NFC East or South with better a record (with the obvious exception of the Eagles and the Seahawks).

There is no way based on the evidence that anyone is going to convince me that GB made the playoffs under Sherman's reign because the NFC North is the weakest division in the league. The facts I quoted above simply prove otherwise.

GO PACK!!!

Robert C. Hedley

 

[espnpack]

One will never know if it was MS doing an outstanding job or if Brett had more to do with it..Or was a combo of both...

I think in the beginning MS did a great job, but somewhere after that Jets beating something happened, and he never recovered....

It was the whole thing...And there are a lot of moving parts...

While it would be nice to be able to "pin it down", it is arguable that in January 2004 or 13 months after the NYJ beating, the Pack was playing as good of football as anyone in the league....And a couple of breaks here or there, and they would have been in the NFC Championship.

Sherman had the squad where he wanted at that point, but felt he needed to make a change...He took a risk and fired Donatel and hired Slowik, and it blew up on him...it contributed to McK debacle, and despite the ****-poor quality of the D in 2004, the team (and that silly nickname Sherrossley that some people love to use...) still managed 10-6 and a Division Title; although they were hardly a threat for excelling in the Playoffs.

I am completely fine with the new regime...It just bothers me how little respect some of the Fan Population has for what it takes to be successful in this league...

 

[digsthepack]

All I am saying is that much of his record is on the back of ****** teams. Yes, we also played some talented teams along the way, but every year, we were assured of 6 matches against horribly inferior competition.

 

[DePack]

All I am saying is that much of his record is on the back of ****** teams. Yes, we also played some talented teams along the way, but every year, we were assured of 6 matches against horribly inferior competition.

Man....something tells me when TT is done we are going to WISH he had Sherman's record as a GM. So far he's 4-12. Has a way to go, don't you think?

 

[digsthepack]

One year versus 5 years. I will be happy to compare records, and rub your nose in it if warranted, when TT has the same opportunity as MS to build the team.

"Oh, geez...that young Einstein kid, in one short year, has made it clear he will never surpass our 5 year honor student, Waldo Hirschcorn, in physics. We should just expel Albert now and spare him the humiliation!!"

Give him some time to prove, or disprove, his worth.

 

[Anubis]

Man....something tells me when TT is done we are going to WISH he had Sherman's record as a GM. So far he's 4-12. Has a way to go, don't you think?

4-12 due to a decimated offense and little money to sign or hold on to any talent eligible in the FA. Because of the cap situation Sherman left us in, we lost both Wahle and Rivera (two of the best guards in the league). In addition, we lost Green, Davenport and Walker to season-ending injuries (Walker in the first game of the season) which did nothing but bode doom for our offensive attack.

Despite the problems above, we managed to keep the majority of our losses to 4 points or less. Place Green and Walker on the field, and I am sure we could have made up at least those three points (if not more).

My main concerns were addressed in another thread, that being MM's record in SF, the effectiveness of zone blocking and our o-line/kicker situation. IMO, TT dropped the ball not retaining Longwell, nor aggressively pursuing Vinatieri. I also hope that he makes some moves toward shoring up our o-line in the draft, and doesn't waste our 1st round pick on another rookie QB (as some have wished for on here).

GO PACK!!!

Robert C. Hedley

 

[DePack]

Man....something tells me when TT is done we are going to WISH he had Sherman's record as a GM. So far he's 4-12. Has a way to go, don't you think?

4-12 due to a decimated offense and little money to sign or hold on to any talent eligible in the FA. Because of the cap situation Sherman left us in, we lost both Wahle and Rivera (two of the best guards in the league). In addition, we lost Green, Davenport and Walker to season-ending injuries (Walker in the first game of the season) which did nothing but bode doom for our offensive attack.

Despite the problems above, we managed to keep the majority of our losses to 4 points or less. Place Green and Walker on the field, and I am sure we could have made up at least those three points (if not more).

My main concerns were addressed in another thread, that being MM's record in SF, the effectiveness of zone blocking and our o-line/kicker situation. IMO, TT dropped the ball not retaining Longwell, nor aggressively pursuing Vinatieri. I also hope that he makes some moves toward shoring up our o-line in the draft, and doesn't waste our 1st round pick on another rookie QB (as some have wished for on here).

GO PACK!!!

Robert C. Hedley

Bottom line busines. Sherman was fired as head coach with a 4-12 record. Bottom line business. That 4-12 record will stick with TT.

 

[espnpack]

Man....something tells me when TT is done we are going to WISH he had Sherman's record as a GM. So far he's 4-12. Has a way to go, don't you think?

One year versus 5 years. I will be happy to compare records, and rub your nose in it if warranted, when TT has the same opportunity as MS to build the team.

"Oh, geez...that young Einstein kid, in one short year, has made it clear he will never surpass our 5 year honor student, Waldo Hirschcorn, in physics. We should just expel Albert now and spare him the humiliation!!"

Give him some time to prove, or disprove, his worth.

My misssion:

To prove that it is possible to be proud of the job Mike Sherman did (a little disappointed doesn't hurt), and at the same time, be excited about the potential that Ted Thompson brings to the Pack (while also being a little skeptical.)

Mission continued: It is also possible, and recommended, to be a tried and true devoted follower of Brett Favre, after all it has been one helluva run!!!!...While also understanding that all careers come to an end, and at some point, the reins will be turned over to another competent QB. If that time is now, fine; or if it is in 1, 2, or 3 more years, then that is fine too!!

Go Pack Go!

(Finally, if you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to tear down the above Mission Statement, then, in my opinion, you are somewhat deficient as a Packer Fan!)

 

[DePack]

Man....something tells me when TT is done we are going to WISH he had Sherman's record as a GM. So far he's 4-12. Has a way to go, don't you think?

One year versus 5 years. I will be happy to compare records, and rub your nose in it if warranted, when TT has the same opportunity as MS to build the team.

"Oh, geez...that young Einstein kid, in one short year, has made it clear he will never surpass our 5 year honor student, Waldo Hirschcorn, in physics. We should just expel Albert now and spare him the humiliation!!"

Give him some time to prove, or disprove, his worth.

My misssion:

To prove that it is possible to be proud of the job Mike Sherman did (a little disappointed doesn't hurt), and at the same time, be excited about the potential that Ted Thompson brings to the Pack (while also being a little skeptical.)

Mission continued: It is also possible, and recommended, to be a tried and true devoted follower of Brett Favre, after all it has been one helluva run!!!!...While also understanding that all careers come to an end, and at some point, the reins will be turned over to another competent QB. If that time is now, fine; or if it is in 1, 2, or 3 more years, then that is fine too!!

Go Pack Go!

Good mission and I agree with it. I just refuse to throw Brett under the bus to make TT happy.

 

[digsthepack]

DePack..why can't you just allow for the fact that there really is not a good guy or bad guy in this equation. Both men operate under a set of circumstances that are inherently conflicting. It really is that simple.

It is not like a western movie where thare has to be a guy in a black hat and a guy in a white hat. Sometimes circumstance drives a situation, and this is clearly the case.

 

[DePack]

DePack..why can't you just allow for the fact that there really is not a good guy or bad guy in this equation. Both men operate under a set of circumstances that are inherently conflicting. It really is that simple.

It is not like a western movie where thare has to be a guy in a black hat and a guy in a white hat. Sometimes circumstance drives a situation, and this is clearly the case.

So why are you throwing Brett under the bus?

 

[Buckeyepackfan]

Another 5 page thread devoted to a topic, THAT DOESN'T MEAN A DAMN THING ANYMORE!!!!!

Every bad thing that has ever happened to The Packers in the last 5 years was Mike Sherman's fault.!!!!!!!

Does that make you Sherman Haters happy??????

Bottom line if TT doesn't start showing the ability to field a competitive team....
#1 Brett will be gone and

#2 People will be begging for records like Mike Sherman put up his first 4 years.

TT has made some good off-season moves, he just didn't make the one big splash signing that I and a lot of others wanted. So be it, the draft is two weeks away, let's see what happens, but by god when the Packers take the field next year I hope to hell that Mike Sherman's name is never mentioned again.

 

[digsthepack]

DePack..I think you know better than that!

 

[P@ck66]

One will never know if it was MS doing an outstanding job or if Brett had more to do with it..Or was a combo of both...

I think in the beginning MS did a great job, but somewhere after that Jets beating something happened, and he never recovered....

It was the whole thing...And there are a lot of moving parts...

While it would be nice to be able to "pin it down", it is arguable that in January 2004 or 13 months after the NYJ beating, the Pack was playing as good of football as anyone in the league....And a couple of breaks here or there, and they would have been in the NFC Championship.

..."a couple of breaks here and there..."...???

How about a couple of non-boneheaded decisions made by a coach who choked badly in playoff games..and especially one in particular in Philadelphia..???

Mike Sherman's vast ineptitude as HC/GM is the sole reason why Brett Favre doesn't have another ring on his finger with the Green Bay Packers....and Bob Harlan hired TT to drive the final stake in Favre's heart to finish the job....

(and espn..i don't care if you feel that you are the "superior" Packer fan and I am the "inferior" one...Facts are facts..and the truth doesn't lie...SherRossley stunk up the joint at Lambeau (what was their home field and playoff record like when Sherman came along?)....stop trying to revise Packer history..!!!)

 

[Buckeyepackfan]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
@#**&^$@@##$%$%^^&**(&^%$@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!