Dez or Brian?

[brandon2348]

Wow, I agree with Captain, let's pump the brakes a little here. I don't like, I love Davante and what he could potentially be, but to say his name even in the same sentence as Dez is insane. Dez has had arguably the best start to a career of any WR in NFL history, the guy is a freak on the field.

I said the "ceiling is there" and Rodgers agrees that he is going to be a star. Rodgers has gone as far as putting him up there with star charisma as Charles Woodson, Julius Peppers and a young Greg Jennings. Rodgers doesn't usually throw these types of accolades around. We can re-visit this later but Davante is a freak as well and is MM's all-star already from OTA's. I mean physically he can do what Dez can do and reports are he has gotten better physically over off-season. Pump the breaks all you want.

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[Sunshinepacker]

I said the "ceiling is there" and Rodgers agrees that he is going to be a star. Rodgers has gone as far as putting him up there with star charisma as Charles Woodson, Julius Peppers and a young Greg Jennings. Rodgers doesn't usually throw these types of accolades around. We can re-visit this later but Davante is a freak as well and is MM's all-star already from OTA's. I mean physically he can do what Dez can do and reports are he has gotten better physically over off-season. Pump the breaks all you want.

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Problem with holding a guy to that standard is you're basically saying that Adams should have one of the best 25 second year wide receiver seasons in NFL history...and you're asking this of the third option at receiver (fourth option overall on offense if you include Lacy). Adams could very well be the next iteration of Jerry Rice and he's not going to get the kind of numbers that Dez has had because Dez is by far the best receiver on the Cowboys.

 

[Ace]

I said the "ceiling is there" and Rodgers agrees that he is going to be a star. Rodgers has gone as far as putting him up there with star charisma as Charles Woodson, Julius Peppers and a young Greg Jennings. Rodgers doesn't usually throw these types of accolades around. We can re-visit this later but Davante is a freak as well and is MM's all-star already from OTA's. I mean physically he can do what Dez can do and reports are he has gotten better physically over off-season. Pump the breaks all you want.

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I'm not trying to argue, and believe me I hope you're right, I love this kid. And with all due respect to QB1, he can say whatever he wants about Davante but as sunshinepacker pointed out above, he is at the very highest the 3rd option right now so to expect Dez like production is asking quite a bit out of him.

If you put Dez in place of Davante on this team right now as it currently sits, he is the #1 offensive option on the team and still puts up all-pro numbers IMO, he's that good. Davante may get 60 catches this year. The ceiling may be there but he isn't there yet and that's why I don't believe putting him in the conversation with Dez makes any sense. I will gladly eat crow if I'm wrong in a couple of years though.

 

[brandon2348]

I was shocked myself to hear these comments from Rodgers. I mean Rodgers last year had no problem saying Boykin needs to keep the mind set of a guy making the 53 man roster so Rodgers doesn't just throw praise around easily and hype guys up to hype them up. In fact he is quite the opposite and very critical of players if anything.

I just think TT might of found some more "gold" in Davante and yes only time will tell how high the ceiling goes. My main point is I am comfortable with Bulaga instead of Dez when you consider our emerging receiving corp that is in place. There is no lack of weapons on this team and protecting Rodgers is key especially against teams that can get pressure with 4.

 

[Voltron]

Dez is a good player but not top 5. I remember seeing last season stats and Jordy i think made top 5. Yet people will swear Dez is the best. Dez is more media hype, and jersey seller, but he is not the best, there are others out there that have out performed him and dont get the media attention he does. Plus Dez is a cry baby, didnt we make him cry twice? If you cant stand the Cold get out of the Tundra.....

 

[brandon2348]

Dez is a good player but not top 5. I remember seeing last season stats and Jordy i think made top 5. Yet people will swear Dez is the best. Dez is more media hype, and jersey seller, but he is not the best, there are others out there that have out performed him and dont get the media attention he does. Plus Dez is a cry baby, didnt we make him cry twice? If you .cant stand the Cold get out of the Tundra.....

Add Skip Bayless hype to that

 

[Voltron]

here are the stats... I havent kept up with Dallas news but is he really asking for 20 million, when he is not even top 5?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards

 

[TJV]

I wasn’t shocked by Rodgers’ comments about Adams – he was picked in the 2nd round by Thompson – that’s as close to a guarantee of success as you can get!

Seriously, if “everyone” stays healthy there’s just no way Adams could get close to Bryant’s numbers. Both Nelson and Cobb had more catches than Bryant last regular season - they combined for 189 (for more than 2,800 yards) while Bryant had 88 catches. But that’s OK, Adams can continue his progress and if he’s as good as Rodgers says he can be he, along with Nelson and Cobb will cause defenses fits. BTW, the 46 yard TD he caught vs. the Cowboys was a thing of beauty – third and 15 and he caught the ball about 16 yards downfield after beating what looked like an attempt at press coverage by CB Patmon and then make S Wilcox look silly as he juked him and ran to the flag. He abused Patmon and Wilcox on a couple of other occasions too.

 

[Voltron]

Add Skip Bayless hype to that

I saw Skips epsisode on the "crime of the Century" Skip is full of it, where was the crying when Detroit got screwed?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

here are the stats... I havent kept up with Dallas news but is he really asking for 20 million, when he is not even top 5?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards

I always love these "rank the player by one stat with no context" lists...here's a couple of other informative lists:

Aaron Rodgers isn't a top 5 QB (ranked 7th in passing yards)
Eddie Lacy is worse than Alfred Morris and Frank Gore (based on rushing yards)
Sam Shields isn't a top-75 corner based on interceptions

 

[Voltron]

I always love these "rank the player by one stat with no context" lists...here's a couple of other informative lists:

Aaron Rodgers isn't a top 5 QB (ranked 7th in passing yards)
Eddie Lacy is worse than Alfred Morris and Frank Gore (based on rushing yards)
Sam Shields isn't a top-75 corner based on interceptions

I always love these "rank the player by one stat with no context" lists...here's a couple of other informative lists:

Aaron Rodgers isn't a top 5 QB (ranked 7th in passing yards)
Eddie Lacy is worse than Alfred Morris and Frank Gore (based on rushing yards)
Sam Shields isn't a top-75 corner based on interceptions

Im sure if they had a temper tantrum stat, Dez would be number 1. The other things they never get stats on is team player, he really isnt one. He walked out on his team, what ever happen to Finish the Fight that Dallas fans always preach. Isn't he trying to hold his team hostage for 20 million. Dez is a great player, but there are other players that are better than him and dont get credit for it. I personally feel Jordy is way better and not just because I am a Packers fan.

My opinion is Bulaga was a better pick than Bryant would have been. My gut tells me had GB taken Bryant he would have walked away from GB for another team.

 

[brandon2348]

Im sure if they had a temper tantrum stat, Dez would be number 1. The other things they never get stats on is team player, he really isnt one. He walked out on his team, what ever happen to Finish the Fight that Dallas fans always preach. Isn't he trying to hold his team hostage for 20 million. Dez is a great player, but there are other players that are better than him and dont get credit for it. I personally feel Jordy is way better and not just because I am a Packers fan.

My opinion is Bulaga was a better pick than Bryant would have been. My gut tells me had GB taken Bryant he would have walked away from GB for another team.

Exactly, we don't need Dez. We need an offensive line that can protect Rodgers. The drop off of losing Bulaga is far greater then at WR if there would arguably be any at all. Then throw in the money thing where Dez wants more then Jordy and Cobb combined per year and it's a "no-brainer".

 

[Deleted member 6794]

here are the stats... I havent kept up with Dallas news but is he really asking for 20 million, when he is not even top 5?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards

Dez Bryant ranks 11th in receptions, 5th in yards and first in TD catches since entering the league. He´s a top 5 receiver.

 

[Ace]

I personally feel Jordy is way better and not just because I am a Packers fan.

If you are sayin this because of the on/off field antics, the money they make/are going to make vs. the value each brings to their respective teams then I would agree. From a pure talent standpoint this is wrong though. "Way better"?? come on man.

Now, I think Jordy is in the conversation of Dez, much much more than Davante should be.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Exactly, we don't need Dez. We need an offensive line that can protect Rodgers. The drop off of losing Bulaga is far greater then at WR if there would arguably be any at all. Then throw in the money thing where Dez wants more then Jordy and Cobb combined per year and it's a "no-brainer".

The question posited in this discussion was that, knowing what we do now, would you take Bulaga or Dez in the draft? We know that Bulaga had one bad season, one decent season and one good season and missed two years due to injury. We know that Dez had one decent season and four good seasons.

How does one good, one average and one bad beat out one decent and four good? The math is really simple. You take five years of a great player over three years of a good player. The Packers offense didn't fall apart due to Bulaga missing two seasons (not saying Packers don't need him, just that Bulaga playing oline doesn't make up for the huge gap in production between the two).

 

[brandon2348]

The question posited in this discussion was that, knowing what we do now, would you take Bulaga or Dez in the draft? We know that Bulaga had one bad season, one decent season and one good season and missed two years due to injury. We know that Dez had one decent season and four good seasons.

How does one good, one average and one bad beat out one decent and four good? The math is really simple. You take five years of a great player over three years of a good player. The Packers offense didn't fall apart due to Bulaga missing two seasons (not saying Packers don't need him, just that Bulaga playing oline doesn't make up for the huge gap in production between the two).

Did you see what happened when Bulaga was out last year due to injury? It wasn't too pretty from my view. Dez wouldn't even be on the team right now as TT wouldn't pay the money Dez demands. I mean we couldn't keep Greg Jennings so how in the heck would we keep Dez?

Do we win another Super Bowl if Dez was on the team since 2010? I know last years meltdown had nothing to do with not having Dez on the roster so I don't think so. In fact the only thing Dez would of added is most likely an "epic temper tantrum:". I would rather have Bulaga now anchoring the right side of the OL.

I agree that Bulaga staying healthy is a key.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Dez Bryant ranks 11th in receptions, 5th in yards and first in TD catches since entering the league. He´s a top 5 receiver.

Over those 5 years, Bryant ranked as follows in number of targets: 88th, 40th, 14th, 6th, 12th

Over that stretch, he had a total of 611 targets. Calvin Johnson had 784 over the same period, about a full season's worth of additional opportunities, while Johnson was in his 5th. year at the start of this period whereas Bryant was a rookie.

Bryant does as much with the balls that get thrown to him as anybody, regardless of the gross numbers..

I put Johnson, Bryant and Demaryius Thomas at the top of the current heap, based on past performance and expectations for the coming season

Nelson and Cobb are in the next tier of about 10 names. That list does not include Emmanual Sanders. A breakout season in year 5 could make him the next Brandon Lloyd. Beckham needs to put together back-to-back seasons before I'd grant him special honors.

 

[ivo610]

Over those 5 years, Bryant ranked as follows in number of targets: 88th, 40th, 14th, 6th, 12th

Over that stretch, he had a total of 611 targets. Calvin Johnson had 784 over the same period, about a full season's worth of additional opportunities, while Johnson was in his 5th. year at the start of this period whereas Bryant was a rookie.

Bryant does as much with the balls that get thrown to him as anybody, regardless of the gross numbers..

I put Johnson, Bryant and Demaryius Thomas at the top of the current heap, based on past performance and expectations for the coming season

Nelson and Cobb are in the next tier of about 10 names. That list does not include Emmanual Sanders. A breakout season in year 5 could make him the next Brandon Lloyd. Beckham needs to put together back-to-back seasons before I'd grant him special honors.

No love for Antonio Brown?

 

[RRyder]

The question could also be posed as would you prefer Dez+Jordy-Cobb at WR and Barclay at RT or Bulaga at RT with Jordy+Cobb at WR. Even with Dez being an elite WR the drop off from him to Cobb is no where as big as the drop off from Bulaga to Barclay

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Over those 5 years, Bryant ranked as follows in number of targets: 88th, 40th, 14th, 6th, 12th

Over that stretch, he had a total of 611 targets. Calvin Johnson had 784 over the same period, about a full season's worth of additional opportunities, while Johnson was in his 5th. year at the start of this period whereas Bryant was a rookie.

Bryant does as much with the balls that get thrown to him as anybody, regardless of the gross numbers..

I put Johnson, Bryant and Demaryius Thomas at the top of the current heap, based on past performance and expectations for the coming season

Nelson and Cobb are in the next tier of about 10 names. That list does not include Emmanual Sanders. A breakout season in year 5 could make him the next Brandon Lloyd. Beckham needs to put together back-to-back seasons before I'd grant him special honors.

Taking a look at production per target both Nelson and Cobb have better stats than Bryant though. Bryant has averaged 8.9 yards per target and his catching percentage is at 62.6% compared to Nelson (10.6, 67.5%) and Cobb (9.9, 73.5%). He has a higher TD percentage than both Packers receivers, I wouldn´t put him in a tier above them though.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The question could also be posed as would you prefer Dez+Jordy-Cobb at WR and Barclay at RT or Bulaga at RT with Jordy+Cobb at WR. Even with Dez being an elite WR the drop off from him to Cobb is no where as big as the drop off from Bulaga to Barclay

Actually you would have to compare Bryant, Nelson and Cobb at WR with Barclay playing RT to having Nelson, Cobb and Adams at receiver with Bulaga at RT. I think Adams has a bright future ahead of him but as of now the dropoff from Bryant to Adams is probably steeper than replacing Bulaga with Barclay.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Did you see what happened when Bulaga was out last year due to injury? It wasn't too pretty from my view. Dez wouldn't even be on the team right now as TT wouldn't pay the money Dez demands. I mean we couldn't keep Greg Jennings so how in the heck would we keep Dez?

Do we win another Super Bowl if Dez was on the team since 2010? I know last years meltdown had nothing to do with not having Dez on the roster so I don't think so. In fact the only thing Dez would of added is most likely an "epic temper tantrum:". I would rather have Bulaga now anchoring the right side of the OL.

I agree that Bulaga staying healthy is a key.

I agree but that wasn't the question. The question was, would you take three years of Bulaga (one of which was very good) over five years of Dez (four of which were very good).

Thompson might or might not have paid Dez, perhaps Dez would have a different attitude after spending five years in Green Bay as opposed to five years with Jerry Jones. Even if Dez wasn't paid in Green Bay you can be sure that some team somewhere would trade a first round pick for Dez if the Packers didn't want to sign him, and that's not something you could say about Bulaga.

As far as 2013 goes...I think a healthy Dez being able to take the field while Cobb and Rodgers were out would have made a bigger positive impact over having a healthy Bulaga with an injured Cobb and Rodgers.

 

[RRyder]

Actually you would have to compare Bryant, Nelson and Cobb at WR with Barclay playing RT to having Nelson, Cobb and Adams at receiver with Bulaga at RT. I think Adams has a bright future ahead of him but as of now the dropoff from Bryant to Adams is probably steeper than replacing Bulaga with Barclay.

If we have Dez on this team right now we dont resign Cobb so no I wouldn't use having those 3 right now as a guage on whether we would've been better off selecting Dez

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If we have Dez on this team right now we dont resign Cobb so no I wouldn't use having those 3 right now as a guage on whether we would've been better off selecting Dez

Well, guess that´s a fair assessment. It´s possible the Packers would have never drafted Cobb in the first place. I get confused with all these hypothetical stuff.

 

[longtimefan]

Taking a look at production per target both Nelson and Cobb have better stats than Bryant though. Bryant has averaged 8.9 yards per target and his catching percentage is at 62.6% compared to Nelson (10.6, 67.5%) and Cobb (9.9, 73.5%). He has a higher TD percentage than both Packers receivers, I wouldn´t put him in a tier above them though.

Question is this---

Is or was Dez the only play making Wr on Dallas in that time frame? if so, then that makes sense he has a higher TD % then the Packer WR

Where as with the Packers- there at at least 2 capable Wr that split the TD %

Or is that thinking wrong?