Deja Raji

[Vrill]

Time will tell.

 

[Sanguine camper]

The last time Raji sacked the QB was 2011. That's not hyperbole it's true. I don't mind that he was signed for one year but I think TT could have signed him for a song. It doesn't look like anybody else was willing to throw a 3-4 million for a guy who got 17 tackles in 16 games in 2013. TT let House and Williams walk because he didn't want to overpay which makes sense but now he blows 3-4 million on a guy who had one good year in 2010. Raji has one heck of a great agent.

 

[Vrill]

The last time Raji sacked the QB was 2011. That's not hyperbole it's true.

While I'm not taking up for Raji here, and I do understand hes been under-performing when he does play, the NT position isn't exactly a position that you should expect to get sacks and QB pressures. The NT in the 3-4 eats up blocks and pushes the pocket more or less. Its a thankless position.

I have never looked at Raji as a player who should be getting sacks. I've always looked at him as more of a Sam Adams or Tony Siruagusa type (and Gilbert Brown)

 

[adambr2]

While I'm not taking up for Raji here, and I do understand hes been under-performing when he does play, the NT position isn't exactly a position that you should expect to get sacks and QB pressures. The NT in the 3-4 eats up blocks and pushes the pocket more or less. Its a thankless position.

I have never looked at Raji as a player who should be getting sacks. I've always looked at him as more of a Sam Adams or Tony Siruagusa type (and Gilbert Brown)

To me, there's about 20% truth in this and 80% more of a convenient excuse for Raji apologists (not saying you are one, just saying it is).

Ngata is always good for about 5 sacks a year. Wilfork was always good for a couple sacks and about 50 tackles per year. Raji had 19 tackles in his last year. 19. While it's not the primary responsibility of a NT, the benefit of a NT that can offer interior pressure shouldn't be dismissed.

Raji had 6.5 sacks in the 2010-11 season. It's hard to come back after no sacks in 3 years and just say..."Well that's not his job" when he's shown the ability to do it before in that exact same role..

 

[Vrill]

To me, there's about 20% truth in this and 80% more of a convenient excuse for Raji apologists (not saying you are one, just saying it is).

Ngata is always good for about 5 sacks a year. Wilfork was always good for a couple sacks and about 50 tackles per year. Raji had 19 tackles in his last year. 19. While it's not the primary responsibility of a NT, the benefit of a NT that can offer interior pressure shouldn't be dismissed.

Raji had 6.5 sacks in the 2010-11 season. It's hard to come back after no sacks in 3 years and just say..."Well that's not his job" when he's shown the ability to do it before in that exact same role..

Yeah, don't get me wrong, Raji has been a major disappointment and I am holding out hope he proves us wrong this coming year. Hes a Packer for another year, so we may as well hope he does well..if he doesn't, it wont be any sweat off our backs...it'll just be a bonus if he does do good....we know what Guion will bring to the table, but Raji is a mystery until proven otherwise.

And yeah, the NT position should muster up 3-5 sacks a year, I don't refute that at all. But it seems like some people are ******* Raji as being something hes never been, and that's a pass rusher. Hes not a pass rusher at all..hes just a big ole guy who eats up space and blocks.

But anyway, the NT in a 3-4 has absolutely never been a position that one should expect sacks to come from consistently.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't understand all the Raji skeptics here. He was moved back to NT last year and although it was pre-season last year he was playing very well until he got hurt. If he can just stay healthy it will turn out to be a great signing. Add the Guion signing who as one person referenced him having a career year last year and I think everyone can take a sigh of relief at the NT position.

Raji played a total of 30 snaps during last preseason. While he was doing OK during his limited playing time he will have to prove he can stay motivated for a prolonged period of time until I get excited about him.

Oops, I thought he was only signed to a one year contract, in which case there is no compensatory pick.

The length of a contract doesn´t have any influence on compensatory picks.

While I'm not taking up for Raji here, and I do understand hes been under-performing when he does play, the NT position isn't exactly a position that you should expect to get sacks and QB pressures. The NT in the 3-4 eats up blocks and pushes the pocket more or less. Its a thankless position.

I have never looked at Raji as a player who should be getting sacks. I've always looked at him as more of a Sam Adams or Tony Siruagusa type (and Gilbert Brown)

The Packers don´t expect Raji to get sacks from the NT position in the base defense. But they would love him to be productive rushing the passer playing DT in the subpackages. Raji was so terrible that Capers didn´t even play him in those situations anymore.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

I'll do my best.

1) Negative comments made for the sake of being negative with no substance or explanation added. (Raji sucks, Hawk sucks, we have no shot this year, we suck, TT sucks, we are probably going to be 8-8 this year, etc)

2) Comments that may not paint a pretty picture for those who want to see something else but at are least backed up with data, observations, information, etc. (Raji was ranked 87th out of 88 DT/NT, Raji set a record for least tackles per snap, Raji on tape consistently failed to disengage from a single blocker and no longer commanded double teams in 2013)

See the difference?

Ok so the whole trust TT and MM thing doesn't apply here then?

 

[adambr2]

Ok so the whole trust TT and MM thing doesn't apply here then?

You literally said, 2 weeks ago, a direct quote from your post: "we're all armchair GMs. It's not like anything we say really matters, it's just opinion."

So now you're saying we should all just agree with everything TT and MM do out of our trust for them, quit analyzing things and presenting factual information, and stop trying to form our own opinions?

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

You literally said, 2 weeks ago, a direct quote from your post: "we're all armchair GMs. It's not like anything we say really matters, it's just opinion."

So now you're saying we should all just agree with everything TT and MM do out of our trust for them, quit analyzing things and presenting factual information, and stop trying to form our own opinions?

Oh jesus... My quote literally says "your opinion does NOT matter." So yes it would be saying to trust TT and MM. I mean come on, that's what everyone was saying when we watched MM's conservative play calling, our defense on 3rd and long, and protecting a lead in general. We were all basically told to shut up because we were being negative and to trust TT and MM. Now, that logic goes out the window when one of us is trying to support a move that TT makes? That make NO sense.

Granted many were being more negative by wanting people fired and thinking the game was over minutes in, but there were plenty of us that were just commenting on the fact that this team had glaring holes that needed to be addressed. We had plenty of video "facts" to back that up. Only after the gut wrenching loss to the Hawks were we vindicated.

We needed D-line depth, I don't know what else you wanted? You know TT doesn't sign a lot of FAs. I think it was a good signing for the situation we are in, period.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Granted many were being more negative by wanting people fired....

Fire Capers.

 

[adambr2]

Oh jesus... My quote literally says "your opinion does NOT matter." So yes it would be saying to trust TT and MM. I mean come on, that's what everyone was saying when we watched MM's conservative play calling, our defense on 3rd and long, and protecting a lead in general. We were all basically told to shut up because we were being negative and to trust TT and MM. Now, that logic goes out the window when one of us is trying to support a move that TT makes? That make NO sense.

Granted many were being more negative by wanting people fired and thinking the game was over minutes in, but there were plenty of us that were just commenting on the fact that this team had glaring holes that needed to be addressed. We had plenty of video "facts" to back that up. Only after the gut wrenching loss to the Hawks were we vindicated.

We needed D-line depth, I don't know what else you wanted? You know TT doesn't sign a lot of FAs. I think it was a good signing for the situation we are in, period.

Who are you even arguing with? I never said bringing Raji back was a bad idea. I, among others, simply pointed out that he has in fact, without exaggeration, been a pretty horrible player since 2011.


I think the general consensus among most is that it's a good low risk with potentially great, albeit not guaranteed upside.

 

[adambr2]

Raji has one heck of a great agent.

The same guy who turned down 20M in guarantees and 8M a year and wound up with a couple prove - it deals worth less 4M per year?

Of course, we don't know if that was an agent driven decision or a Raji driven decision.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Oh jesus... My quote literally says "your opinion does NOT matter." So yes it would be saying to trust TT and MM. I mean come on, that's what everyone was saying when we watched MM's conservative play calling, our defense on 3rd and long, and protecting a lead in general. We were all basically told to shut up because we were being negative and to trust TT and MM. Now, that logic goes out the window when one of us is trying to support a move that TT makes? That make NO sense.

Granted many were being more negative by wanting people fired and thinking the game was over minutes in, but there were plenty of us that were just commenting on the fact that this team had glaring holes that needed to be addressed. We had plenty of video "facts" to back that up. Only after the gut wrenching loss to the Hawks were we vindicated.

Who are you even arguing with? I never said bringing Raji back was a bad idea. I, among others, simply pointed out that he has in fact, without exaggeration, been a pretty horrible player since 2011.


I think the general consensus among most is that it's a good low risk with potentially great, albeit not guaranteed upside.

I agree. I also looked it up and Knighton played about 48% of the snaps with the Broncos and Raji played around 79%. Could have factored into it as well. Big guys wear down and need a good rotation to be effective.

 

[adambr2]

In 2013? Or 2011? I don't have the numbers right in front of me but I can't imagine Raji played 79% of defensive snaps in 2013. Could have been a factor in 2011 if that's what you were referring to.

 

[HardRightEdge]

In 2013? Or 2011? I don't have the numbers right in front of me but I can't imagine Raji played 79% of defensive snaps in 2013. Could have been a factor in 2011 if that's what you were referring to.

That's right. 79% sounds close to a 2010 - 2013 average. He had very high snap counts in 2010 and 2011...in the 80 - 90% range. Lower in 2012, but still above 70%. Down to around 60% in 2013.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

In 2013? Or 2011? I don't have the numbers right in front of me but I can't imagine Raji played 79% of defensive snaps in 2013. Could have been a factor in 2011 if that's what you were referring to.

That's right. 79% sounds close to a 2010 - 2013 average. He had very high snap counts in 2010 and 2011...in the 80 - 90% range. Lower in 2012, but still above 70%. Down to around 60% in 2013.

Raji played 85.2% of the defensive snaps in 2010, 79.3% in 2011, 68.3% in 2012 and 58.6% in 2013. The drop off should probably be attributed to his decline in production.

 

[brandon2348]

Raji is playing NT now so everything I'm reading here is being taken a little out of context. Having both Guion and Raji only helps the rotation as pointed out. You can never have enough big bodies up front on the DL. The Raji deal was a good deal if he stays healthy which he has done most of his career.

 

[adambr2]

Raji is playing NT now so everything I'm reading here is being taken a little out of context. Having both Guion and Raji only helps the rotation as pointed out. You can never have enough big bodies up front on the DL. The Raji deal was a good deal if he stays healthy which he has done most of his career.

Again, the "out of position" excuses for Raji are really overblown. He's played a lot of DE his career, as do most 3-4 NT's at various points in their career. Most of them who are still good players still have success. A NT to DE move doesn't turn a top NT into a bad DE.

The rest I do agree with.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Raji is playing NT now so everything I'm reading here is being taken a little out of context.

In addition to agreeing to adambr´s comment about Raji playing out of position being way overblown you have to realize that Raji was terrible when he last played NT for a full season in 2011.

 

[TJV]

This is from a Wilde article of a few days ago titled, "Big expectations for big men":

Although Raji didn’t play a regular-season down, he got his teammates’ and coaches’ attention in preseason, as he was downright dominant in practice in 1-on-1 drills and in the first two preseason games before his injury.

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=19901&is_corp=1

I don't remember "dominant" in the first two preseason games but I do remember reading a couple of articles/blogs about how well he was doing in TC. I hope Raji lives up to that review this season but all I have is hope.

 

[PikeBadger]

I don't want to see him playing more than 30 snaps a game. If a NT is drafted, I highly doubt Raji will be with the Packers in 2016 no matter how well he plays unless Guion and Thornton are complete flame-outs this year. I think he's in a similar situation that Tramon Williams was last year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't want to see him playing more than 30 snaps a game. If a NT is drafted, I highly doubt Raji will be with the Packers in 2016 no matter how well he plays unless Guion and Thornton are complete flame-outs this year. I think he's in a similar situation that Tramon Williams was last year.

I highly doubt Raji will be back with the Packers in 2016 no matter what happens this season. If he has a great season it's probable he will prize himself out of Green Bay otherwise Thompson won't want him back for another year.

 

[HardRightEdge]

This is from a Wilde article of a few days ago titled, "Big expectations for big men": http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=19901&is_corp=1

I don't remember "dominant" in the first two preseason games but I do remember reading a couple of articles/blogs about how well he was doing in TC. I hope Raji lives up to that review this season but all I have is hope.

Raji was dead to me. I can't view it that way now that he's on the roster.

Your post suggests a possible t-shirt slogan: "Hope...it's better than nothing."

Here's a possible basis for some hope, and it has less to do with Raji going back to NT than the prudent approach of limiting his snaps.

When a guy is asked to take too many snaps (and 60 - 85% year after year is too many for a 345 lb. player), he can go about it a couple of ways. Raji in particular now has a full career of trench battling on his record compared to 2-down NTs limited to 30-40% snaps.

One approach for a player who is expecting to be "rode hard and put away wet", as an Indiana farming acquaintance once put it, is to take some plays off and give full effort on the rest. That does not sound like the Raji of recent vintage.

The other is to take a little off on every play, pace himself throughout a game, a season, a career, and as a consequence rarely make a play in the NFL game where the margin in one-on-one superiority is narrow and frequently boils down to effort. We're getting warm.

A third approach is to go with finesse. 2-gap sumo wrestling is exhausting. Instead, throw a move at a guy, try to slide off him, anything but head-up attack, trying to stand the guy up, and then bull off the block. This resembles the Raji approach of recent years. He's admitted as much in a recent interview, that he had gone too much to a finesse game and is now committed to returning to a more physical approach.

So, I hold out hope, provided the Packers commit to a limited snap count. If they throw him out there again for 40 snaps in week 1, I would expect a reversion to his old ways in fairly quick order.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Here's a possible basis for some hope, and it has less to do with Raji going back to NT than the prudent approach of limiting his snaps.

When a guy is asked to take too many snaps (and 60 - 85% year after year is too many for a 345 lb. player), he can go about it a couple of ways. Raji in particular now has a full career of trench battling on his record compared to 2-down NTs limited to 30-40% snaps.

Raji had his best season in 2010 while playing more than 85% of the snaps. He has the physical tools to be a three down player, the question mark is if he wants to.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Raji had his best season in 2010 while playing more than 85% of the snaps. He has the physical tools to be a three down player, the question mark is if he wants to.

It was his second season, and his first year with an excessive snap count. Repeat and rinse takes it's toll, mentally and physically.

I'm on the record as being among the biggest Raji skeptics on this board, going back quite some ways, which is no secret to you.

The question at hand was "hope", thin gruel to be sure, and where it might reside. I see it in the snap count, planned and expressed to the player, whereby the conditions are created to maximize his performance.