Defensive Coordinator Candidates

[Favre>Rodgers259]

The latest client at the Law Offices of @Dantés

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[Dantés]

Preston Smith, Sua Cravens, Kendall Fuller, and Josh Norman could all be worth a drop of about 5ppg allowed with an abysmal DC.

Yep, context definitely matters.

I understand what those roles are, but I don't value them in the slightest(or at least as much as you do), keep in mind that with the exception of AHC, these "junior coordinator" positions just recently started popping up around the league in the last 5 years. Back in the day, you were just an analyst. It gives off the appearance of granting more responsibility without taking any actual accountability

Cravens, Fuller, and Norman did not get to Washington until the year after Barry. The drop in ppg allowed happened in 2015-- Smith being the only player you mentioned that was there in 2015 (his rookie season; he played 48% of the snaps).

Are you purposefully getting this stuff wrong, or are you overlooking the details in your eagerness?

I don't know know what all was entailed in Barry's job as AHC or what would be entailed in his job as PDC for Staley. And neither do you. I pointed that out only because you said that McVay and Staley both see him as a LB Coach and nothing more.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

He coached at Washington for the 2015 season, they drafted Preston.

Then in 2016 they drafted Cravens and Fuller while signing Norman.

Barry was still the DC then.

So while Washington improved in talent, Barry as the DC didn't seem to be able to do much with them. The 2016 roster wasn't terrible, had Barry been able to do more they probably could have turned an 8-7-1 season easily into 10-6 or better. Of the 7 losses and 1 tie, 5 games were decided by less than 10 points, with 3 games less than 7 points.

 

[Dantés]

He coached at Washington for the 2015 season, they drafted Preston.

Then in 2016 they drafted Cravens and Fuller while signing Norman.

Barry was still the DC then.

So while Washington improved in talent, Barry as the DC didn't seem to be able to do much with them. The 2016 roster wasn't terrible, had Barry been able to do more they probably could have turned an 8-7-1 season easily into 10-6 or better. Of the 7 losses and 1 tie, 5 games were decided by less than 10 points.

That’s fine if that’s your opinion regarding how he did in 2016, but that’s not what you said.

I pointed out the improvement in scoring defense when Barry arrived.

You thought you were going to refute that by saying that it could be explained by a talent influx that arrived with him.

But the talent influx, other than Smith, did not arrive until after Barry got there and the scoring defense improved.

 

[Half Empty]

It must be super annoying to be highly accomplished in your field and have a bunch of ignorant morons telling you what you should do on the internet.

1. Why, then, have an account?

2. The wisdom of the crowd often arrives at the correct answer, despite a lack of specific expertise.

3. Has MLF demonstrated that he's highly accomplished in the field of picking a DC?

4. Matt Millen, Bill O'Brien, Hershel Walker, John Hadl, et. al - names associated with experts making (sometimes multiple) bad decisions.

5. I am among the ignorant population in this case, but I don't think necessarily the moronic section. I would think there are plenty of folks expressing their opinions who have both done their homework and can think their way out of a paper bag.

Other than that, I'm pretty much on your side.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

All I'm repeatedly saying is the guy has not found success ANYWHERE.

Here's another "factoid":

Raheem Morris, now the Rams DC but previously the Bucs HC, fired Barry after one season.

Whether it was Lane Kiffin or Ed Orgeron, they fired Barry from USC after 2 years.

I'm just trying to understand where's the indicators of success?

The only "success" is that Barry survived Norv Turner's firing in San Diego and stayed on Mike McCoy's staff. But McCoy fired him for Mike Nolan after 2 years.

Joe Barry has only coached for more than 2 years anywhere 3 times in his ENTIRE coaching career. Joe Barry has been coaching since 1994.

 

[PackAttack12]

Alexander plays off all the time and it works amazing. I never see anyone talking about how great the off coverage call was when he clicks, closes, and blows up a screen.

Right, but not everyone is Jaire Alexander. Coaches have to know their personnel.

 

[Dantés]

Right, but not everyone is Jaire Alexander. Coaches have to know their personnel.

That’s true. But some personnel don’t play off because they’re amazing at it, but because they’ll get cooked if they don’t.

 

[PackAttack12]

For me, I'm all in on Ejiro Evero. Young up and comer, has familiarity with LaFleur, and has spent a solid amount of time everywhere he's been besides Green Bay. And hell, who wouldn't want to get away from Capers?

Three years on the Bucs staff, followed by 5 years on the 49ers staff, and has been on the Rams staff for 4 years. Leads me to believe he gets somewhere and makes an impact.

I don't understand the love for Joe Barry. If he never had defensive coordinator opportunities he might be intriguing based purely on the unknown, but he's had two shots and did nothing with either opportunity.

The Washington press was scathing of Joe Barry toward the end of his tenure.

At this point, I'm past the point of retreads. Give me the young up and comer with something to prove. Give me the innovation. The freshness. The energy. To me, that does not describe Joe Barry.

If the Packers wanted a retread head coach, they could've went Jim Caldwell. Or Chuck Pagano.

The point was made that perhaps Barry has learned something since his last DC stint. The guy is now 50 and has been in coaching since the 90s. I'm not sure how much learning, and application of that learning can be effective at this point.

Go with Evero.

 

[rdawsoniii]

For me, I'm all in on Ejiro Evero. Young up and comer, has familiarity with LaFleur, and has spent a solid amount of time everywhere he's been besides Green Bay. And hell, who wouldn't want to get away from Capers?

Three years on the Bucs staff, followed by 5 years on the 49ers staff, and has been on the Rams staff for 4 years. Leads me to believe he gets somewhere and makes an impact.

I don't understand the love for Joe Barry. If he never had defensive coordinator opportunities he might be intriguing based purely on the unknown, but he's had two shots and did nothing with either opportunity.

The Washington press was scathing of Joe Barry toward the end of his tenure.

At this point, I'm past the point of retreads. Give me the young up and comer with something to prove. Give me the innovation. The freshness. The energy. To me, that does not describe Joe Barry.

If the Packers wanted a retread head coach, they could've went Jim Caldwell. Or Chuck Pagano.

The point was made that perhaps Barry has learned something since his last DC stint. The guy is now 50 and has been in coaching since the 90s. I'm not sure how much learning, and application of that learning can be effective at this point.

Go with Evero.

Agree. If Barry is hired, fans will be begging for Pettine to return by Week 8.

 

[Dantés]

1. Why, then, have an account?

2. The wisdom of the crowd often arrives at the correct answer, despite a lack of specific expertise.

3. Has MLF demonstrated that he's highly accomplished in the field of picking a DC?

4. Matt Millen, Bill O'Brien, Hershel Walker, John Hadl, et. al - names associated with experts making (sometimes multiple) bad decisions.

5. I am among the ignorant population in this case, but I don't think necessarily the moronic section. I would think there are plenty of folks expressing their opinions who have both done their homework and can think their way out of a paper bag.

Other than that, I'm pretty much on your side.

The main reason to use Twitter, in my opinion, is to consume news and analysis. I don’t see the point in random people shouting their opinions into a void where no one will read them.

A crowd of people who actually possess wisdom may arrive at a correct answer most of the time, but a Twitter mob engaged in group think has nothing to do with wisdom.

Obviously the answer is no, Petals has no accomplishments relative to hiring a DC because he’s never done it. But he, the head coach of the Green Bay Packers, is a million times more qualified to do so than a bunch of rando’s on twitter who looked up Joe Barry on Wikipedia.

Yes, sometimes qualified people make the wrong decision. There’s no guarantee that LaFleur will get it right. But that doesn’t somehow mean he should listen to a bunch of fans on Twitter and do what they want. That’s insane.

I’m not saying that people who don’t want Barry are dumb for that reason. I’m saying that telling the head coach what to do over a social media platform is pointless.

If LaFleur is making decisions based on what @pker4lyfe5678 and his buddies say, he needs to be fired immediately.

 

[PackAttack12]

Agree. If Barry is hired, fans will be begging for Pettine to return by Week 8.

Honestly, if it weren't for the egregious error by Pettine at the end of the first half in the NFCCG, I would definitely prefer Pettine to Barry. But that was 100% a fire-able offense.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I still prefer Pettine to Barry.

If LaFleur just wanted to run Rodgers out of town he should have just told him quietly after the NFCCG loss.

 

[RRyder]

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[Jerellh528]

I never understood the love for Evero. He didn’t fit the profile of a young, up and comer.

Leonhard should’ve been the guy as evidenced by Lafleur offering him the job first.

Now we get Barry who the entire fanbase already doesn’t like, poor guy. I guess I’ll keep an open mind.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I'd say Packattack12's post by far and away nails it with why I think hiring Barry would be a mistake.

It's kinda disappointing that there aren't any other names we're looking at besides Barry and Evero. You just feel like there's gotta be others out there that are being overlooked.

Now, regardless of this next year's output, no I won't be calling to bring back Pettine. He obviously didn't have what it took to get our defense to the SB, and that blown play in the nfccg is going to stain his career till the end of time. But the whole point of letting him go is to get, or at least try and get a big upgrade. Barry definitely doesn't seem to be that based on anything he's done before.

Yes, Evero has some huge question marks about how good he could be. Hell, the chances of him failing are probably greater than him succeeding. But you still got a chance he could succeed because he's a blank slate so far in his defensive coordinator career. LaFleur had that same risk, but we took it despite his inexperience because we knew he might bring fresh ideas into the camp, and his potential to be successful was worth it.

With Barry, it just seems like you got one of the good old boys, or someone who's just here because LaFleur knows him. Now, I don't want LaFleur making decisions that reflect what I or any other fans want. He does know, or should know things I don't. But we cannot settle for just average, or even just good when it comes to defensive coordinator hires here. Barry's defense is going need to take a massive leap over Pettine's, or you're damn right I'm gonna jump all over it.

 

[PackerDNA]

I'm going to go with benefit of the doubt. MLF and company have proven the doubters wrong more often than not.

 

[LambeauLombardi]

Just wondering why the Badger hate. I realize they start almost every year with a great outlook and then blow it, but that applies to the other major football team from Wisconsin (the pro one), too.

I'm a Hawkeye fan and they've absolutely owned us in football recently. Pretty much the same story in basketball but we're more known as a football school. Most of hate is just they are good.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I'm going to go with benefit of the doubt. MLF and company have proven the doubters wrong more often than not.

LaFleur's hiring and Barry's hiring are polar opposites if you ask me.

For one, ever since LaFleur started his career in Houston, he's essentially moved up. From an offensive assistant to 3 stints as a QB Coach, to 2 opportunities as an OC, and now a HC....all in a matter of 11 years.

Barry has been coaching nearly twice as long and hasn't stuck anywhere. He coaches just long enough for someone to realize they can do better and then they move on. The Chargers opportunity was the best one for him, because this fanbase won't let him be mediocre(or less than) for very long, especially after Mike Pettine displayed occasional competence.

 

[GleefulGary]

All I'm repeatedly saying is the guy has not found success ANYWHERE.

Here's another "factoid":

Raheem Morris, now the Rams DC but previously the Bucs HC, fired Barry after one season.

Whether it was Lane Kiffin or Ed Orgeron, they fired Barry from USC after 2 years.

I'm just trying to understand where's the indicators of success?

The only "success" is that Barry survived Norv Turner's firing in San Diego and stayed on Mike McCoy's staff. But McCoy fired him for Mike Nolan after 2 years.

Joe Barry has only coached for more than 2 years anywhere 3 times in his ENTIRE coaching career. Joe Barry has been coaching since 1994.

The bolded is not true.

In Tampa he requested to be released from his contract so he could go to USC. After coaching at USC he decided to go back to the NFL. Neither time was he fired.

 

[GleefulGary]

LaFleur's hiring and Barry's hiring are polar opposites if you ask me.

For one, ever since LaFleur started his career in Houston, he's essentially moved up. From an offensive assistant to 3 stints as a QB Coach, to 2 opportunities as an OC, and now a HC....all in a matter of 11 years.

Barry has been coaching nearly twice as long and hasn't stuck anywhere. He coaches just long enough for someone to realize they can do better and then they move on. The Chargers opportunity was the best one for him, because this fanbase won't let him be mediocre(or less than) for very long, especially after Mike Pettine displayed occasional competence.

Yeah, and LaFleur’s year as an OC actually calling plays was a HUGE success. 27th in the league in scoring, 25th in the league in yards per game.

 

[PackinMSP]

Right, but not everyone is Jaire Alexander. Coaches have to know their personnel.

Exactly J'aire is an All Pro and Top 3 CB . He would do well in basically any defense

 

[Sunshinepacker]

After some thought, I think MLF made the correct hire. He knows his fans. The DC is always to blame. He's just hired a ready-made scapegoat. JOB SECURITY BABY!

 

[gopkrs]

Why is Leonard interviewing? It kind of ****** me off that he interviews twice and then turns down the job. Is he having fun?
As far as Barry is concerned, he will have my support if he never uses a three man rush, if he plays pretty tight when we blitz and if he does not give up so many firsts on third down. And one thing that means is not playing too far off when they only need 4 yards.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

The bolded is not true.

In Tampa he requested to be released from his contract so he could go to USC. After coaching at USC he decided to go back to the NFL. Neither time was he fired.

Source? The article I read says USC definitely released him. And if he loved coaching at USC so much why did he leave after one year? And when they offered him the job of DC 10-years later, why'd he turn that down too? That doesn't add up.