Decline of Mike McCarthy

[brandon2348]

Our ability to come out positive on takeaways has become horrendous. Keep in mind our QB is probably the most finicky guy as far as ball safety. We should be at +20 with Aaron Rodgers low % INT. Certainly top 5-10 in turnover ratio would be acceptable, but we’re one of the worst of all time if you consider the low INT %
If I’m the HC that’s my very first meeting with the position coaches. We have to find a way to get that back.

Which makes all these high draft picks in the secondary even more mindboggling.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

NE consistently plays bend but don't break and great red zone defense. This is exactly what I believe the Packers need to do.

Creating turnovers and being able to turn potential TD's into FG's is where the $ is at. If you can add an offense that can score 30 a game you have a real good shot at going to the Super Bowl.

I agree, which is why I was disappointed that we were forced to stick with Pettine. He and Ryan were successful with very talented defenses. They never really did more with less, and actually ranked poorly in scoring defense several years. Indy and Tennessee's scoring defenses jumped up the charts after a DC change without adding a great deal more talent, simply because they played sound, disciplined football and utilized their personnel perfectly.

 

[brandon2348]

I agree, which is why I was disappointed that we were forced to stick with Pettine. He and Ryan were successful with very talented defenses. They never really did more with less, and actually ranked poorly in scoring defense several years. Indy and Tennessee's scoring defenses jumped up the charts after a DC change without adding a great deal more talent, simply because they played sound, disciplined football and utilized their personnel perfectly.

I have my own frustrations with it too and that's why I'm tired of them continuing to dump into it with no clear direction. It's been a complete waste all the way around.

We could be completely transformed into a 4-3 by now with all the resources they have used. It's like were just spinning our wheels in the mud. They just keep pumping DB's into a broken system.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I have my own frustrations with it too and that's why I'm tired of them continuing to dump into it with no clear direction. It's been a complete waste all the way around.

We could be completely transformed into a 4-3 by now with all the resources they have used. It's like were just spinning our wheels in the mud. They just keep pumping DB's into a broken system.

I'm not sure that I've ever seen defensive personnel handled so poorly. A bunch of dud years out of both starting OLBs on big contracts, a complete , talented secondary gutted and replaced with nothing but a hope and prayer. They extended the wrong players, let the wrong ones walk, drafted the wrong players, and put them with the wrong coach.

 

[OldSchool101]

I have my own frustrations with it too and that's why I'm tired of them continuing to dump into it with no clear direction. It's been a complete waste all the way around.

We could be completely transformed into a 4-3 by now with all the resources they have used. It's like were just spinning our wheels in the mud. They just keep pumping DB's into a broken system.

Chicago understands that even the best QBs under pressure and getting hit repeatedly cannot perform to their standards. Getting pressure early and often is the meat in the Chile of success. We like our bean Chile I get it. But lack of Protein and too much Fiber gasses a Defense.

 

[brandon2348]

Chicago understands that even the best QBs under pressure and getting hit repeatedly cannot perform to their standards. Getting pressure early and often is the meat in the Chile of success. We like our bean Chile I get it. But lack of Protein and too much Fiber gasses a Defense.

Its basic fundamental football. It starts up front with meat and potatoes. Push the pocket and disrupt passing lanes and then your edge guys can land on target. Your right, as the QB is now under duress and that's when bad decisions are made. Then the opportunity for takeaways is multiplied.

The Packers have done it all backwards going secondary/Edge/DL when it should go DL/Edge/Secondary. Capers didn't help with his smoke and mirrors scheme and everything relying on illusion.

Bottom line. Untill the Packers get some guys up front that play mean and nasty and disrupt it's going to continue to be a Mickey Mouse Defense. Adding edge rushers and db's will be wasteful moves until the dominance is achieved upfront.

Which is why I have repeatedly talked about Christian Wilkins at no. 12. Jaylon Ferguson could help too.

 

[rmontro]

The Packers have done it all backwards going secondary/Edge/DL when it should go DL/Edge/Secondary

That's why Harbaugh's 49ers kept knocking us off. Those teams were built from the lines on back, instead of the other way around.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree, which is why I was disappointed that we were forced to stick with Pettine. He and Ryan were successful with very talented defenses. They never really did more with less, and actually ranked poorly in scoring defense several years. Indy and Tennessee's scoring defenses jumped up the charts after a DC change without adding a great deal more talent, simply because they played sound, disciplined football and utilized their personnel perfectly.

In my opinion Pettine did a decent job with a defense lacking overall talent and deserved to be retained.

We could be completely transformed into a 4-3 by now with all the resources they have used. It's like were just spinning our wheels in the mud. They just keep pumping DB's into a broken system.

It's possible to run a successful 3-4 defense as well. The Packers lack of talent on that side of the ball has prevented them from performing at a higher level though.

 

[OldSchool101]

Bottom line. Untill the Packers get some guys up front that play mean and nasty and disrupt it's going to continue to be a Mickey Mouse Defense. Adding edge rushers and db's will be wasteful moves until the dominance is achieved upfront.

I’ve pondered that many times. It would be interesting to go get a DL at #12 as you say (or even move up a few spots to land our guy). I’d also like to resign Mo as long as he’s recovered fully and affordable. That would give us Clark, Christian Wilkins or equivalent, Daniels, Wilkerson, Lowry to get things going. I like the idea of having multiple capable personnel upfront and the philosophy of keeping the big guys fresh. We could also use a disruptive MLB to pair with Martinez. Upgrades at those 2 positions this year would make our current CBs look better and give them a few more opportunities by forcing a higher % of hurries.
Other teams have figured this out and constantly challenge AR by swarming him.

 

[brandon2348]

I’ve pondered that many times. It would be interesting to go get a DL at #12 as you say (or even move up a few spots to land our guy). I’d also like to resign Mo as long as he’s recovered fully and affordable. That would give us Clark, Christian Wilkins or equivalent, Daniels, Wilkerson, Lowry to get things going. I like the idea of having multiple capable personnel upfront and the philosophy of keeping the big guys fresh. We could also use a disruptive MLB to pair with Martinez. Upgrades at those 2 positions this year would make our current CBs look better and give them a few more opportunities by forcing a higher % of hurries.
Other teams have figured this out and constantly challenge AR by swarming him.

I'm all for Wilkerson coming back too if healthy. We ultimately need to get better then Daniel's and Lowry to achieve what I'm talking about. I'm fine with those guys being in a rotation but we need another "game changer" up front. I really want the Packers to switch to a 4-3 but that probably isn't gonna happen.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm all for Wilkerson coming back too if healthy. We ultimately need to get better then Daniel's and Lowry to achieve what I'm talking about. I'm fine with those guys being in a rotation but we need another "game changer" up front. I really want the Packers to switch to a 4-3 but that probably isn't gonna happen.

Agreed. Noticed I said “get things going”. I’m an advocate of hitting the interior D line with our first pick. With a deep DL draft there will likely be another solid rotational guy dropping into the 3rd round and beyond. I’m all for spending a second pick day 3 or whatever.
I’d still like to see that Will LB position addressed. I’m not yet comfortable with Burks being that guy. Burks natural position is Safety. I can’t help but wonder if addressing the ILB position through FA would be an option and moving Burks back to Safety.
IDK. I do know we need help at both positions and Burks was a very formidable Safety for Vanderbilt.

I’ve always felt like the Will LB position didn’t get addressed under McCarthy. Maybe a new set of eyes at HC will help.

 

[brandon2348]

Agreed. Noticed I said “get things going”. I’m an advocate of hitting the interior D line with our first pick. With a deep DL draft there will likely be another solid rotational guy dropping into the 3rd round and beyond. I’m all for spending a second pick day 3 or whatever.
I’d still like to see that Will LB position addressed. I’m not yet comfortable with Burks being that guy. Burks natural position is Safety. I can’t help but wonder if addressing the ILB position through FA would be an option and moving Burks back to Safety.
IDK. I do know we need help at both positions and Burks was a very formidable Safety for Vanderbilt.

I’ve always felt like the Will LB position didn’t get addressed under McCarthy. Maybe a new set of eyes at HC will help.

If the Packers got these three guys and add a free safety in free agency the defense would be fixed and we would get the results we all want.


http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019DWhite.php

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019cwilkins.php

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/11/07/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-jaylon-ferguson/

 

[OldSchool101]

If the Packers got these three guys and add a free safety in free agency the defense would be fixed and we would get the results we all want.


http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019DWhite.php

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019cwilkins.php

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/11/07/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-jaylon-ferguson/

True. Although it’s highly unlikely all 3 fell to our picks. I see Jaylon Ferguson as a decent probability at #44 (50%) White being there at pick #12 (33%)
Wilkins being there at #30 (15%)
Also, kiss Parris Campbell goodbye, he’s long gone by #75

 

[brandon2348]

True. Although it’s highly unlikely all 3 fell to our picks. I see Jaylon Ferguson as a decent probability at #44 (50%) White being there at pick #12 (33%)
Wilkins being there at #30 (15%)
Also, kiss Parris Campbell goodbye, he’s long gone by #75

I agree. That's what makes the whole thing so tough. Unless we get lucky we can probably get two of those 4. I'm hoping Gute can address some of this stuff in free agency. Well have a much better view of this whole thing after free agency.

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree. That's what makes the whole thing so tough. Unless we get lucky we can probably get two of those 4. I'm hoping Gute can address some of this stuff in free agency. Well have a much better view of this whole thing after free agency.

Yeah. Like someone said it’s like dominos. The first couple of moves will send a chain reaction into a few different directions
I’m not sure who’s available and wants to come to GB (not much quality in FA at WR) But if we don’t sign Cobb we are very inexperienced at WR. We cut Jordy and Monty and are lacking at experience in that dept. All the while, Cobb is coming off his worst year overall and he’s becoming injury prone and he’s not getting any younger. He’s talented, but also a waning moon and that’s a gamble. You have to think LaFleur doesn’t sit pat at WR. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see us do a trade or possibly move up earlier somewhere day 2

 

[brandon2348]

Yeah. Like someone said it’s like dominos. The first couple of moves will send a chain reaction into a few different directions
I’m not sure who’s available and wants to come to GB (not much quality in FA at WR) But if we don’t sign Cobb we are very inexperienced at WR. We cut Jordy and Monty and are lacking at experience in that dept. All the while, Cobb is coming off his worst year overall and he’s becoming injury prone and he’s not getting any younger. He’s talented, but also a waning moon and that’s a gamble. You have to think LaFleur doesn’t sit pat at WR. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see us do a trade or possibly move up earlier somewhere day 2

This is exactly why I have reciever as a top level need. They need to rip the band aid off with Cobb. He is not as explosive as he once was and can't stay healthy. I know people have mixed feelings on Antonio Brown but he would change the whole complexion of the receiving Corp. Him and Adam's would he a potent 1-2 punch and the best in the NFL. Records could fall.

The other option I see is Ryan Grant. He would be on the cheaper side of a 1 year type deal. I would prefer him over Beasley. Grant is serviceable and durable and would be there while a guy we draft is being groomed. I'm open to other options as well.

On defense my dream scenario is we steal Frank Clark from the Seahawks. I don't think it will happen but it would make my offseason.

 

[rodell330]

MM was a tool, and Lafleur looks like an even bigger one. Winning cures everything so If Lafleur is indeed a tool? Hopefully this team wins lots of games or else this hire will be over before the seasons over.

 

[swhitset]

MM was a tool, and Lafleur looks like an even bigger one. Winning cures everything so If Lafleur is indeed a tool? Hopefully this team wins lots of games or else this hire will be over before the seasons over.

Your optimism is always so refreshing Rodell.

 

[longtimefan]

Your optimism is always so refreshing Rodell.

Time to ignore

 

[Ogsponge]

If the Packers average 30 points a game they go 6-1 during that stretch. People need to realize it's a 30 point league and 30 is the magic number.

This defense is actually good enough to compete for a championship. We just need the offense to reach its potential.

13-3 Super Bowl, it is not a 30 point league, it is a well balanced team league, always has been, always will be. The Rams and The Chiefs were completely imbalanced and they both got beat by the most balanced team in the league,

A great offense with a horrible defense is highly unlikely to get a championship.

 

[brandon2348]

13-3 Super Bowl, it is not a 30 point league, it is a well balanced team league, always has been, always will be. The Rams and The Chiefs were completely imbalanced and they both got beat by the most balanced team in the league,

A great offense with a horrible defense is highly unlikely to get a championship.

That's fine but our draft and develop approach on defense isn't working. Both of these teams have high priced free agents playing on the defensive side of the ball. How many do we have?

That's what I thought. We give guys like Clay Matthew's, Nick Perry and Mike Daniel's big contracts instead. The rest of the guys by the time they develop 4 years later we let them go and they become productive on other teams.

If we learned anything tonight it's how far we are from being a Super Bowl contender. Were gonna need to go all in and spend all the $ which I'm fine doing on the defensive side of the ball.

Draft offense and spend the $ on defense.

 

[Ogsponge]

That's fine but our draft and develop approach on defense isn't working. Both of these teams have high priced free agents playing on the defensive side of the ball. How many do we have?

That's what I thought. We give guys like Clay Matthew's, Nick Perry and Mike Daniel's big contracts instead. The rest of the guys by the time they develop 4 years later we let them go and they become productive on other teams.

If we learned anything tonight it's how far we are from being a Super Bowl contender. Were gonna need to go all in and spend all the $ which I'm fine doing on the defensive side of the ball.

I agree, this organization has made massive mistakes on the defensive side of the ball. But I feel we definitely need to improve both sides of the ball although I strongly believe the right offense will show there is more talent on the offensive side of the ball than it appears.

 

[brandon2348]

I agree, this organization has made massive mistakes on the defensive side of the ball. But I feel we definitely need to improve both sides of the ball although I strongly believe the right offense will show there is more talent on the offensive side of the ball than it appears.

Mr Ted Thompson has destroyed this Packer roster. The damage is incredible and has put us in a very desperate situation that might put us back farther then I thought.

I can appreciate a great defense but were just so far away. I mean you look at that Rams front and there talent in the secondary. Then you look at that Patriots secondary and there ability to get pressure. Both these teams used free agency and trades to build them. I dont know what the Packers are gonna do but they have a lot of work for sure. I've never been this down as far as the state of the Packers. Then again there were the Lynn ****ey years.

I'm all for building a defense but there gonna need to get creative and use free agency, Trades etc. Gute is gonna have to wheel and deal to fix this mess. It's not gonna happen just drafting defense and developing.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Had Mo Wilkerson stayed healthy. The complexion of the defense may have been different. Without pressure from the middle, edge rushers just flush the qb and don't get many sacks. I think Gute will trade down and pick up another third round pick. Given the depth in this year's draft with d linemen, it isn't too improbable to see Gute going d line and edge in the first and second round and picking up perhaps Hockensen and a wr in the first and third round or he will bundle a few picks to trade up into the second to land a slot receiver. With the salary cap and available free agents, I'd like to see Gute go after o linemen and safeties. Agree that TT disasterous final 3 drafts left the team in a mess but with AR, Adams, Bakt, Jones, Alexander, Clark and Martinez, the Packers are only a few key pieces away from kicking a**. The huge question is can Gute find a decent rg, replace Cobb and add enough d line talent to get a consistent pass rush? If he does, the Packers can goist the Lombardi trophy very soon. There were no juggernaut teams in the playoffs this year. They all looked very beatable. Its not that far to the top at the present time.

 

[brandon2348]

Had Mo Wilkerson stayed healthy. The complexion of the defense may have been different. Without pressure from the middle, edge rushers just flush the qb and don't get many sacks. I think Gute will trade down and pick up another third round pick. Given the depth in this year's draft with d linemen, it isn't too improbable to see Gute going d line and edge in the first and second round and picking up perhaps Hockensen and a wr in the first and third round or he will bundle a few picks to trade up into the second to land a slot receiver. With the salary cap and available free agents, I'd like to see Gute go after o linemen and safeties. Agree that TT disasterous final 3 drafts left the team in a mess but with AR, Adams, Bakt, Jones, Alexander, Clark and Martinez, the Packers are only a few key pieces away from kicking a**. The huge question is can Gute find a decent rg, replace Cobb and add enough d line talent to get a consistent pass rush? If he does, the Packers can goist the Lombardi trophy very soon. There were no juggernaut teams in the playoffs this year. They all looked very beatable. Its not that far to the top at the present time.

Chris Lindstrom out of Boston College is a day 1 starting RG.

Completely agree about the need to get pressure up the middle to help edge rushers. I'm all for Wilkerson coming back but he will turn 30 and is coming off a significant injury. No guarantees there.

I am leaning toward a 2 year plan at this point unless they get really active in free agency.