Davon House

[Pokerbrat2000]

well i'd like them both to be improved as well. But I think it's going to take more investment to improve our pass rush and it's more important. Having just spent 2 high picks on DB's, they're going to give more time to them to develop and I think at least 1 of them is going to be very good, they both have potential though to both be very good players.

But I think with a mid level vet added it will do more IF the pass rush is addressed more so than tossing a big investment into a DB. I don't think we have enough to keep core guys and pay a lot to both positions without killing the future and I don't think we need to kill the future to get better either.

I understand the logic of that, but....how long do you give both Randall and Rollins to improve and what do you do for 2017 if we see more of the same? I am not going to say I have the answer to this either. I rely on the Packers coaching staff to know those things. TT seemed to want to blame the problems in the secondary on injury, which indicates to me that he is either trying to convince us or himself of that, but I think it may have tipped his hand on what his plans are in Free Agency in regards to the secondary, not much.

 

[Mondio]

it's year 3, I suspect they won't look the same as last year. IF they did, and were healthy, then I guess they were really really wrong in their evaluation and it's going to hurt. But what if they're right? and we get another Prime Matthews from somewhere as a pass rusher? They're going to trust their work, and 3 years for a DB to develop is more the norm than most around here would care to admit.

 

[adambr2]

Mutual interest between the Packers and House to bring him back:

http://nfltraderumors.co/mutual-interest-packers-cb-davon-house/

 

[rodell330]

Mutual interest between the Packers and House to bring him back:

http://nfltraderumors.co/mutual-interest-packers-cb-davon-house/

Teddys gonna go the cheapest route. While he's at it, mise well bring back Eric Walden since he seems to be interested in his guys the most.

 

[Ted Thompson's Mind]

Teddys gonna go the cheapest route. While he's at it, mise well bring back Eric Walden since he seems to be interested in his guys the most.

Get out of my head!

 

[Jerellh528]

House?

 

[RRyder]

House is exactly the type of guy we should target in FA. Young, will be cheap, knows the system (would be similar system when talking about other players).

It might not be as **** a signing as say Bouye would be but for all the talk from people saying "I'm not talking about needing a high priced FA to get off TTs back" this would be exactly that type of guy.

(I'm not trying to pump up House but these are the types of guys to look at. Not the "1st week" guys in FA as that's normally a suckers game)

 

[Sanguine camper]

Bringing House back won't fix the Packers secondary. Why spend money on anybody like House who really can't make a meaningful difference. TT has to sign a better player. Bringing in a mediocre player and throwing a rookie into the mess is a recipe for another wasted season. It's not like the Packers are shopping for a nickel back. They don't have anybody on the roster that has shown the ability to even consistently cover a number 2 WR. When the roof of your house caves in you don't come to fix it with chewing gum and a sheet of plastic.

 

[RRyder]

Bringing House back won't fix the Packers secondary. Why spend money on anybody like House who really can't make a meaningful difference. TT has to sign a better player. Bringing in a mediocre player and throwing a rookie into the mess is a recipe for another wasted season. It's not like the Packers are shopping for a nickel back. They don't have anybody on the roster that has shown the ability to even consistently cover a number 2 WR. When the roof of your house caves in you don't come to fix it with chewing gum and a sheet of plastic.

So in other words they NEED to go after a a top tier FA CB according to you. Otherwise your looking at House level guys

 

[Dantés]

Per PFF, in his final season with GB (2014) House played 411 coverage snaps, allowed 46.8% of the passes into his coverage to be completed on 47 targets, allowed 3 touchdowns, picked off 1 pass, and had 8 more passes defended. Only two of the completions he allowed were for 20+ yards.

That's solid, quality play. Not amazing, but better than anything the Packers had a year ago. I'm not saying it's a guarantee that he comes back and is exactly the same, but he's young enough that he could be and the system is the same. I don't understand why that wouldn't help.

 

[Arthur Squires]

With the way teams will cut CBs in the next 2 weeks. I believe that House would be available for us at affordable price!

 

[7thFloorRA]

House played well vs Julio IIRC.

 

[easyk83]

Guessing there will be a few more Davon House like players on the market, Chargers just saved themselves roughly $7M by cutting CB Brandon Flowers. My #1 goal in the FA market would be a top CB, not a House or a Flowers. Use the money saved when Shields was cut and combine that with what it would cost to retain Hyde. Use a mid round draft pick on a CB, add those 2 players to the other 7 guys that we currently have under contract at the position and it will be a competitive camp with hopefully the end result being a vast improvement over 2016.

I am starting to view the 2016 situation at CB as a bit of a parallel to the 2015 situation at WR. Going into both seasons, those positions were viewed as positions of strength as well as depth. Then your #1 player at the position goes down, Jordy at WR in 2015 and Shields at CB in 2016. Both seasons were spent trying to find that guy who could step into that #1 position and because of youth, lack of experience/talent and injuries, pretty much a struggle all season long. In 2016 Jordy comes back as the #1 WR and all is eventually well with the position. In 2017 we aren't getting Sam Shields back and I don't see anyone currently on the roster that looked like a #1 last year. So sure signing guys like House or another mid tier FA may look like it is addressing the problem, but its basically like signing James Jones in 2015, adding more mid tier talent, which we already have.

Imagine what the Packers 2016 season would have been like had Jordy suffered a career ending injury in 2015 and TT went out and only signed a mid tier FA last year to replace him.

Fix the problem TT, don't prolong it.

It depends. First there might not be a great long term solution at the position. Flowers really isn't relevant anymore as a boundary CB and its hard to tell what the market value will be of the vet CBs entering free agency. This means that A) you enter into a bidding war for one of 2 or 3 top FA CBs or B) you're looking to add additional talent in the draft which is always a crap shoot. To me adding a mid tier FA and a first or second round draft pick is the best way to shore up the position with an eye towards a long term correction. Add some depth to push Gunter to the bottom of the depth chart and let Randall Rollins 1st RDer fight it out with say Davon House for the top three spots.

BTW Gilmore is seeking $14 mill per year and the Bears are making a hard push on him already. As for Bouye is he the real deal or is he just a one hit wonder?

 

[adambr2]

Teddys gonna go the cheapest route. While he's at it, mise well bring back Eric Walden since he seems to be interested in his guys the most.

To be fair, Walden had like 11 sacks last year which would look pretty good right now from any of our OLBs.

 

[adambr2]

Bringing House back won't fix the Packers secondary. Why spend money on anybody like House who really can't make a meaningful difference. TT has to sign a better player. Bringing in a mediocre player and throwing a rookie into the mess is a recipe for another wasted season. It's not like the Packers are shopping for a nickel back. They don't have anybody on the roster that has shown the ability to even consistently cover a number 2 WR. When the roof of your house caves in you don't come to fix it with chewing gum and a sheet of plastic.

#1, if you've been a fan of the Packers for the entirety of the TT era, which I'm assuming you have, you should already know by now, a guy like House and a rookie is probably what you're going to get.

#2 - Even if you get more than that, quality depth is still important. Quality depth like House is what keeps guys like Marwin Evans off the field in conference championship games.

 

[Poppa San]

Quality depth like House is what keeps guys like Marwin Evans off the field in conference championship games.

Actually a relatively healthy Shields / Rollins / Randall would have kept Evans on the practice squad where he belonged. Depth only comes into play after the injury bug makes its annual stop in Green Bay.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Per PFF, in his final season with GB (2014) House played 411 coverage snaps, allowed 46.8% of the passes into his coverage to be completed on 47 targets, allowed 3 touchdowns, picked off 1 pass, and had 8 more passes defended. Only two of the completions he allowed were for 20+ yards.

That's solid, quality play. Not amazing, but better than anything the Packers had a year ago. I'm not saying it's a guarantee that he comes back and is exactly the same, but he's young enough that he could be and the system is the same. I don't understand why that wouldn't help.

Saying this because I truly don't know (I don't subscribe to PFF), how were Houses PFF rankings in 2016? 2014 is a "long" time ago in Football time and those are the Stats that Jacksonville paid House the $6M/year, not sure why they would cut him if they thought he was still that guy?

IF they aren't going to go after a top CB in the FA market, why not House and Prince Amukamara? Guys that played together and combined salaries might be around what the Packers would pay for Bouye or Gilmore.

 

[Dantés]

Saying this because I truly don't know (I don't subscribe to PFF), how were Houses PFF rankings in 2016? 2014 is a "long" time ago in Football time and those are the Stats that Jacksonville paid House the $6M/year, not sure why they would cut him if they thought he was still that guy?

If they aren't going to go after a top CB in the FA market, why not House and Prince Amukamara? Guys that played together and combined salaries might be around what the Packers would pay for Bouye or Gilmore.

No idea, but I'm sure they weren't good. He wasn't a good fit in Jacksonville. Maybe he couldn't handle the full time role. Or maybe he didn't mesh with their scheme (which was very different from Capers'). Scheme matters a lot for corners. It's very reasonable to think that he worked with Capers and not with Bradley. I'm not saying that's the reason definitively, but it would make sense.

 

[Poppa San]

If they aren't going to go after a top CB in the FA market, why not House and Prince Amukamara?

Saying this because I truly don't know, how were Houses PFF rankings in 2016?

Some FAs of interest from PFF
A.J. Bouye 90.9 (top ranked CB FA)
Prince Amukamara 76.6
Micah Hyde 74.7
Darrelle Revis 72.1
Tramon Williams 67.3
Davon House 43.6
Sam Shields 38.3

 

[OldSchool101]

TT rarely resigns players once they leave. The whole "contaminated by association with another team" thing he seems to have. Avoids other teams players like the plague.
I'd have no problem bringing House back to compete for the nickel / 2nd slot. He doesn't fit the shutdown corner position though.

Add to that, we could really use a top tier, veteran, perimeter Corner. Our focus should be on that first and foremost..almost to the degree that we can't fall trap into some "patch" being deemed as a fix to one of the historically worst pass cover units in franchise history.
We need either a 1st round pick, an equivalent $10 million dollar vet or both

 

[rodell330]

To be fair, Walden had like 11 sacks last year which would look pretty good right now from any of our OLBs.

That's what I was getting at. If he ain't gonna spend on guy's like Hightower then maybe he will for a guy he brought to the Packers before , and who knows Capers system already. He was more productive than any olb we have. As long we're not facing Kaepernick he should be fine Haha

 

[Jerellh528]

Per PFF, in his final season with GB (2014) House played 411 coverage snaps, allowed 46.8% of the passes into his coverage to be completed on 47 targets, allowed 3 touchdowns, picked off 1 pass, and had 8 more passes defended. Only two of the completions he allowed were for 20+ yards.

That's solid, quality play. Not amazing, but better than anything the Packers had a year ago. I'm not saying it's a guarantee that he comes back and is exactly the same, but he's young enough that he could be and the system is the same. I don't understand why that wouldn't help.

Wasn't he like our 4th cb on the depth chart? I'm pretty confident Gunter can be effective in that role as opposed to number 1 like he played last season. We don't need another 3rd or 4th cb like house. We need a true number 1 so Randall, Rollins and Gunter can all move down a peg on the totem pole and be more effective in reduced roles. That and being healthy should be a very positive thing. I don't think our secondary is as bad as advertised. It all hinges on getting a true number one though, everyone else can fall into place and play well hopefully. House doesn't really help that much at all imo, prolly could get one in the mid rounds that can be as effective as house.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Maybe I'm caught up in the symantics, but you indicated that you expect him to do X, Y, and Z. I don't expect him to jump out into the first tier FA market. I would like him to do some of the things that you've mentioned, including maybe take a swing at a top FA, but I don't get worked up on here because as PappaSan pointed out, it doesn't do any good.

As I'm sure that you know, I'm pretty comfortable with what the Packers have done over the past decade. Sure I'd love it if they'd won ten titles in that timeframe. I think there's definitely tinkering that can be done to procure better players but I'm proud of how well they've consistently done. If we were the Cleveland Browns or the Jacksonville Jaguars, I surely would be a lot more vocal and demanding.

I probably should have phrased it differently as I would like Thompson to sign a top tier free agent cornerback but with the way he has run the team over the past 12 years I don't expect him to actually do it.

There's no doubt the team has bern successful over the past decade but having only won a single Super Bowl while having a generational talent at quarterback is nevertheless disappointing.

I'll take a mid tier guy. Let him compete for a job.

The Packers need to add a #1 cornerback, not a guy competing for a job.

yes they can, we've seen them all do it before. It seems you can't remember back far enough. Randall and Rollins were both just fine as rookies.

Randall and Rollins were OK as rookies because they played with a veteran #1 cornerback in Shields.

I don't think we have enough to keep core guys and pay a lot to both positions without killing the future and I don't think we need to kill the future to get better either.

There's a smart way to use free agency without killing the future. The Packers would have been fine with paying Shields $9 million this season. Thompson should at least spend that much money on his replacement.

They're going to trust their work, and 3 years for a DB to develop is more the norm than most around here would care to admit.

Defensive backs taking some time to develop should result in the Packers using free agency to add a #1 cornerback this offseason.

House is exactly the type of guy we should target in FA. Young, will be cheap, knows the system (would be similar system when talking about other players).

It might not be as **** a signing as say Bouye would be but for all the talk from people saying "I'm not talking about needing a high priced FA to get off TTs back" this would be exactly that type of guy.

(I'm not trying to pump up House but these are the types of guys to look at. Not the "1st week" guys in FA as that's normally a suckers game)

House doesn't fit the Packers need of adding a #1 CB. Thompson should sign a different player.

So in other words they NEED to go after a a top tier FA CB according to you. Otherwise your looking at House level guys

There's absokutely no doubt the Packers need a top player at the position.

To be fair, Walden had like 11 sacks last year which would look pretty good right now from any of our OLBs.

While Walden had double digit sacks he didn't pressure quarterbacks on a consistent basis.

 

[rodell330]

Who did pressure qbs on a consistent basis on the line or at lB in Green Bay? NO ONE. Frankly it may be time to start putting Matthews on a snap count..16 mil is a lot of money for an aging olb with bad hamstrings, who can't defend the run...and who's shoulder might not ever get back to 100%. The Clay Matthews who had to be double teamed on occasion, and who flew all over the field left 3 seasons ago. Walden would help with those 11 sacks.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Walden would help with those 11 sacks.

Despite Walden's 11 sacks PFF had him ranked only 104th out of 109 qualifying edge defenders last season.