David Bakhtiari - Offensive Tackle

[Heyjoe4]

For me it isn't as much if he is a direct upgrade at Center specifically, but if Tom is able to move off of a Tackle position to Center that tells me as a whole our OL is better.

Agreed, and it saves a draft pick. They can take a backup in later rounds and save rounds 1 and 2 to find a T.

RB is very thin this year. Likely a RB won't go until round 2, and that just goes with the NFL devaluing the position. Not sure what FA looks like, but a draft pick is preferable at RB IMO. Hopefully they can get another year out of Jones while grooming someone.

 

[gopkrs]

Agreed, and it saves a draft pick.

It saves a draft pick by having to take a tackle (which is no sure thing) early? When we already have someone at that coveted position who is playing very well? And we probably need to draft one for the left side? And also an interior? Don't see that logic. I cannot see messing with Tom when he is showing he can do a good job against some of the best pass rushers in the league.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It saves a draft pick by having to take a tackle (which is no sure thing) early? When we already have someone at that coveted position who is playing very well? And we probably need to draft one for the left side? And also an interior? Don't see that logic. I cannot see messing with Tom when he is showing he can do a good job against some of the best pass rushers in the league.

Good point about Tom. I was just going with the discussion of moving him to C. But you're right, Tom is more valuable at T. Who are the two Tackles you're referring to as playing very well? I still think taking a highly rated LT in round 1 is a good idea, assuming it's not a reach when GB picks.

As for C, I think Myers time is done. So either they draft a C or sign one in FA. Again I don't know if there are good candidates out there. Just saying the line needs a real C.

 

[tynimiller]

As for C, I think Myers time is done. So either they draft a C or sign one in FA. Again I don't know if there are good candidates out there. Just saying the line needs a real C.

I will predict we do not spend money on a FA center seeing as Myers is getting coach kudos this year and is still on his rookie deal one more year. We may draft his competition but in all likelihood Tom taking his spot due to two additions at Tackle in some capacity to me is the only street we go down where Myers isn't our starting center if I was forced to predict.

Personally I would embrace so strongly a second round duo OL picks....go OT and Sedrick Van Pran OC with those two picks....talk about INSTANT upgrade....I don't think we do it, but I'd embrace it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I will predict we do not spend money on a FA center seeing as Myers is getting coach kudos this year and is still on his rookie deal one more year. We may draft his competition but in all likelihood Tom taking his spot due to two additions at Tackle in some capacity to me is the only street we go down where Myers isn't our starting center if I was forced to predict.

Personally I would embrace so strongly a second round duo OL picks....go OT and Sedrick Van Pran OC with those two picks....talk about INSTANT upgrade....I don't think we do it, but I'd embrace it.

Agree. I'd take those two OL picks in a heartbeat. It's been so hard to get a measure on Love with the up but mostly down OL. It seems inevitable that Love will be the guy in 2024, so buy him some time, literally.

 

[gopkrs]

Good point about Tom. I was just going with the discussion of moving him to C. But you're right, Tom is more valuable at T. Who are the two Tackles you're referring to as playing very well? I still think taking a highly rated LT in round 1 is a good idea, assuming it's not a reach when GB picks.

I really only meant to say that Tom was playing very well. We have 3 other tackles that I know of. One hasn't played. One is not good. And the other one is iffy. And so yes, it looks like we need another good left tackle. And someone at either center/R guard. To be starters. It's a lot but I hope we can get a cohesive O line that can pass protect and run block.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I really only meant to say that Tom was playing very well. We have 3 other tackles that I know of. One hasn't played. One is not good. And the other one is iffy. And so yes, it looks like we need another good left tackle. And someone at either center/R guard. To be starters. It's a lot but I hope we can get a cohesive O line that can pass protect and run block.

Thanks go.

I do agree with your point that Tom is too talented at T to move to C. And Myers isn't the worst C in the NFL, but he certainly struggles. Fortunately he's not very expensive. Ideally they find a C in the 4th or 5th round who can replace him. This has been one of Gluten's strengths, finding solid OL guys later in the draft. It's also a credit to the position coaching.

 

[tynimiller]

Imagine...cutting Jones and Bakh puts this team over $30M in cap space next off season...that's without maybe restructure of Smith or cut...do they move Jaire...

One thing I'd like the team to decide and know is if they plan on Nixon being around as our slot/returner because if so I'd support a extension now, chew some of that off this years cap space to cover some of that void years on him and slide him out a couple years reasonably.

 

[Voyageur]

I'm not certain how it's going to play out at this point, but I see a lot of changes in the offensive line. A major overhaul. I think it will be a two pronged attack. The draft and free agency. Get young guys in the draft who can be the future, and grab a couple of solid, but older linemen in free agency, and put together the lineup for 2024. Then, in 2025, the kids will have been introduced to the game, and the older guys can be let go, if there's solid replacements.

I think the 2024 draft will be directed towards the OL, followed by a couple of potential RBs. A WR will also be on the wish list.

Who do they get in the first round? I think they go LT as a priority, as long as there's a solid player on the board, who might be able to step in and help immediately. Just a guess on my part.

 

[Half Empty]

Imagine...cutting Jones and Bakh puts this team over $30M in cap space next off season...that's without maybe restructure of Smith or cut...do they move Jaire...

One thing I'd like the team to decide and know is if they plan on Nixon being around as our slot/returner because if so I'd support a extension now, chew some of that off this years cap space to cover some of that void years on him and slide him out a couple years reasonably.

If they don't cut both, it's a $58M cap hit.

 

[Voyageur]

If they don't cut both, it's a $58M cap hit.

I think both get cut. I know there's still some hope for Elgton, but it isn't worth it. It's time to move one.

 

[tynimiller]

I think both get cut. I know there's still some hope for Elgton, but it isn't worth it. It's time to move one.

$14M for him - which would be the most expensive piece along our line is VERY affordable for him. Not worth cutting IMO at all and it doesn't save you anything at all.

 

[Voyageur]

$14M for him - which would be the most expensive piece along our line is VERY affordable for him. Not worth cutting IMO at all and it doesn't save you anything at all.

The cap situation is quite misleading. First of all, here's the cap figures for 2024 for all our existing linemen. All are in millions of dollars. I'm showing the dead cap as well as salary for Bakh and Jenkins, because that's what will be owed to them in 2025, if they are cut after June 1, 2024. If they are cut before then, both the 2024 cap hit and the dead cap are due, and part of the 2024 cap, without exception.

Name 2024 Cap Hit 2025 Dead Cap (No Escape)

Bakhtiari $40.5 $19.0 Total, cut pre-June 1 - $59.5
Jenkins $14.5 $14.5 - $29.0
Myers $ 1.8
Rhyan $ 1.4
Newman $ 1.2
Tom $ 1.1
Walker $ 1.0
Tenuta $ 1.0

The question you have to ask yourself is why did we get into a position where we had two guys overpaid as much as they are, and then bring in bargain basement players and even think for a heartbeat that we were going to have a solid offensive line using them? If you look at these figures, they make you wonder what were they thinking?

Now the question is. Do you bite the bullet and take the huge cap hit in 2024, by paying off those pre-June cut figures, or do you spread it over the two years? Either way, you're going to eat a ton of money. I think you cut both Bakh after June 1, and see what happens with Jenkins, "prior to camp," and if he hasn't gotten well enough to contribute, cut him too. In the meantime, you get to divert that $33.5 to 2025's cap.

When you see these figures together, it makes you sick to your stomach realizing how dumb the decisions were to get the Packers in this position. it never should have happened.

 

[tynimiller]

I am not talking post June. It isn't something we do a lot of especially when on the cusp of likely signing a QB to first real deal potentially.

Jenkins wasn't a dumb contract by any means, nor was Bakh. If someone can predict career ending or season ending injuries they'd be a gazillionaire. Bakh was playing as the best tackle in the game when he signed the extension and truthfully has in VERY tiny spurts still played as our BEST OL in games throughout the injury laden years after.


Here's the NUTS thing on Jenkins deal...he is the fourth highest paid Guard by overall value...and also AAV....but is 10th when it comes to guaranteed in the deal. His $14.5M hit this next year is crazy cheap for a guard of his caliber when he is all cylinders.

Not to mention cutting him and Bakh would leave a massive left side weakness...we already all want a new LT...now you want a new LG and we have a battle at RG no one is taking over plus likelihood of many wanting a new center.

 

[gopkrs]

The question you have to ask yourself is why did we get into a position where we had two guys overpaid as much as they are

I think it was the market. Maybe we paid a little too much but they probably could have walked and gotten money somewhere else. How we paid the money by stretching it out in the future is another question. It should come back to bite all teams that do it. And of course whether or not the value was really there is the tough question. But the market pretty much dictated the price.

 

[Voyageur]

I am not talking post June. It isn't something we do a lot of especially when on the cusp of likely signing a QB to first real deal potentially.

Jenkins wasn't a dumb contract by any means, nor was Bakh. If someone can predict career ending or season ending injuries they'd be a gazillionaire. Bakh was playing as the best tackle in the game when he signed the extension and truthfully has in VERY tiny spurts still played as our BEST OL in games throughout the injury laden years after.


Here's the NUTS thing on Jenkins deal...he is the fourth highest paid Guard by overall value...and also AAV....but is 10th when it comes to guaranteed in the deal. His $14.5M hit this next year is crazy cheap for a guard of his caliber when he is all cylinders.

Not to mention cutting him and Bakh would leave a massive left side weakness...we already all want a new LT...now you want a new LG and we have a battle at RG no one is taking over plus likelihood of many wanting a new center.

I'm sorry. How much value were Bakh and Elgton to this point. Jenkins is back. That's good. Played all 72 offensive snaps against the Chargers. It's a good sign. But there's still some season to go, and the question is how well Jenkins will be, coming into camp next season. That's when you decide on him. If he keeps playing at a respectable level, you keep him on the roster, but if he can't cut it, you gotta cut him. Either way you pay that salary.

On the other hand, Bakh is never going to return to playing at a level that's consistent enough to be part of the line. Sorry! It's that simple. It would be a wasted roster spot, and that's where the majority of the dead cap is.

No. Jenkins was not a dumb contract. But, considering how much they already invested in Bakh, and the Rodgers fiasco, the money given to Jenkins pretty much ended the growth of the O-line. There was no money left. LeFleur was pretty much told to do it with bargain basement players, since they were gonna protect Rodgers' blind side.

When people yell about our lousy offensive linemen, yell at those responsible for making it happen. The Packers wasted money with huge contracts that were so badly front loaded that they're harnessed to losses for a long time.

I don't know for sure, but I think anyone would be hard pressed to show us any offensive line that was paid so disproportionately as the Packers is.

 

[tynimiller]

I'm sorry. How much value were Bakh and Elgton to this point. Jenkins is back. That's good. Played all 72 offensive snaps against the Chargers. It's a good sign. But there's still some season to go, and the question is how well Jenkins will be, coming into camp next season. That's when you decide on him. If he keeps playing at a respectable level, you keep him on the roster, but if he can't cut it, you gotta cut him. Either way you pay that salary.

The discussion has nothing to do with value at this point in my post - I was speaking to Bakh being an excellent contract at the time and unpredictable happened. At this point of course he provides next to nothing, no one is arguing that.

Jenkins is starting level guard in the NFL. He is and will still be unless something unforeseen happened. Cutting Elgton would be proactive mismanagement of the roster.

 

[Team Ronny]

Having a better center would definitely help. I'm not sure Myers knows all the line calls. There are also a few plays a game where he gets pushed aside..or..blocks AIR! I also think they can do better than Runyan.

 

[Voyageur]

The discussion has nothing to do with value at this point in my post - I was speaking to Bakh being an excellent contract at the time and unpredictable happened. At this point of course he provides next to nothing, no one is arguing that.

Jenkins is starting level guard in the NFL. He is and will still be unless something unforeseen happened. Cutting Elgton would be proactive mismanagement of the roster.

I though Bakh's contract was a mistake when they signed it. Same with the Rodgers fiasco. They weren't considering what would happen down the road, as they threw so much front money at them. I did not think Jenkins contract was a mistake. I thought it was a good contract except it depleted the cap space needed to keep other players who play offensive line.

I did not say that Jenkins should be cut, except if he can't play next year. No matter what, you're going to pay the salary, but, if he's going to be in street clothes every game, fill that roster spot with someone who might develop into a decent player.

If you thought Bakh's contract was fine, that's your opinion, just like I have mine. But you are going to have to explain to me how one man's contract should be so high that you have to let quality linemen walk, year after year, because there's no money in the coffers to pay them. Just the imbalance shown in the back for next year has to tell you that's a mistake. If you can't see it, that's on you, not me.

And yes, despite your comment that value has nothing to do with it, rest assured it does, no matter how you want to spin it. They paid too much for the new Bakhtiari contract. But, as I said, that's your opinion, not mine.

Look at the figures related to the escalations in payments. People kept looking at the original deal, not he money kicked down the road to hamstring them later. It's in the details, not just what it seems to be out front. It was a horrible decision, because of structure, and they keep rewriting it and paying him more, because they needed cap space.

David Bakhtiari Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

David Bakhtiari contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

 

[Schultz]

I'm sorry. How much value were Bakh and Elgton to this point. Jenkins is back. That's good. Played all 72 offensive snaps against the Chargers. It's a good sign. But there's still some season to go, and the question is how well Jenkins will be, coming into camp next season. That's when you decide on him. If he keeps playing at a respectable level, you keep him on the roster, but if he can't cut it, you gotta cut him. Either way you pay that salary.

On the other hand, Bakh is never going to return to playing at a level that's consistent enough to be part of the line. Sorry! It's that simple. It would be a wasted roster spot, and that's where the majority of the dead cap is.

No. Jenkins was not a dumb contract. But, considering how much they already invested in Bakh, and the Rodgers fiasco, the money given to Jenkins pretty much ended the growth of the O-line. There was no money left. LeFleur was pretty much told to do it with bargain basement players, since they were gonna protect Rodgers' blind side.

When people yell about our lousy offensive linemen, yell at those responsible for making it happen. The Packers wasted money with huge contracts that were so badly front loaded that they're harnessed to losses for a long time.

I don't know for sure, but I think anyone would be hard pressed to show us any offensive line that was paid so disproportionately as the Packers is.

Finally. For a minute there I was worried that this wasn't going to be Rodgers fault.

 

[tynimiller]

LOL - Bakh was worth every bit of that contract, there is zero defense or argument at the time that one could take that the best LT in the league protecting your QB wasn't worth that much.

Now if you're just again big contracts for such players that is another thing and I can understand - but I'll never agree to even disagree that Bakh wasn't worth that much, numerous cases and points from other Tackle's contracts supported that figure was every bit right.

Now - we are on the exact same stance as to how it played out, any time you extend someone and an injury occurs it is just crazy bad...let alone one that lingers into MULTIPLE years. I was for just cutting ties last year, but we gotta definitely do so next year.

Rodgers' extension was dumb, because we all knew the relationship was ****....that one I'll never understand.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I am not talking post June. It isn't something we do a lot of especially when on the cusp of likely signing a QB to first real deal potentially.

Jenkins wasn't a dumb contract by any means, nor was Bakh. If someone can predict career ending or season ending injuries they'd be a gazillionaire. Bakh was playing as the best tackle in the game when he signed the extension and truthfully has in VERY tiny spurts still played as our BEST OL in games throughout the injury laden years after.


Here's the NUTS thing on Jenkins deal...he is the fourth highest paid Guard by overall value...and also AAV....but is 10th when it comes to guaranteed in the deal. His $14.5M hit this next year is crazy cheap for a guard of his caliber when he is all cylinders.

Not to mention cutting him and Bakh would leave a massive left side weakness...we already all want a new LT...now you want a new LG and we have a battle at RG no one is taking over plus likelihood of many wanting a new center.

I don't see cutting Jenkins. Considering his versatility, he's a value. As for Bakh, the timing could not have been worse but he was the best LT in the NFL. Cutting Jones and Bakh makes sound financial sense. We all hate to see them go, but it's time.

 

[tynimiller]

Truthfully rather than cut Bakh, if the Jets would give us a 6th or 7th for him do it. LOL Make Aaron happy more so, unless the Jets have finally realized maybe they should just bring in every player Aaron says...

 

[Schultz]

I saw a report that the Jets will be trying to trade for D. Adams in the off season.

 

[milani]

I think it was the market. Maybe we paid a little too much but they probably could have walked and gotten money somewhere else. How we paid the money by stretching it out in the future is another question. It should come back to bite all teams that do it. And of course whether or not the value was really there is the tough question. But the market pretty much dictated the price.

The Packers years back socked a lot of money into Clay Matthews, Jordy Nelson, and Rodgers. It may have been the market. But they all suffered injuries that impacted several seasons. And it did impact the salary cap which may have had an impact on signing other defensive talent.