Contra Needs

[GB2016]

As we all know, our Defense has been horrible over the last few years, but I believe with the new DC on balance our D will be significantly better with no changes. That being said, a few improvements to the offence might take us to the next level...ie. WR ( with speed )

 

[Deleted member 6794]

As we all know, our Defense has been horrible over the last few years, but I believe with the new DC on balance our D will be significantly better with no changes. That being said, a few improvements to the offence might take us to the next level...ie. WR ( with speed )

The Packers using a different and simplified scheme on defense might improve the unit a bit but there's no doubt in my mind the team needs to add more talent on that side of the ball.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

The Packers using a different and simplified scheme on defense might improve the unit a bit but there's no doubt in my mind the team needs to add more talent on that side of the ball.

Agreed. Coaching can only do so much.

 

[HardRightEdge]

As we all know, our Defense has been horrible over the last few years, but I believe with the new DC on balance our D will be significantly better with no changes. That being said, a few improvements to the offence might take us to the next level...ie. WR ( with speed )

With the roster as currently constituted, I'd expect a WR by the conclusion of day 2. I'd expect an OT or OG in the top half of the draft. The needs, however, are concentrated in the back 7/8/9 of the defense.

 

[Ace]

Agreed. Coaching can only do so much.

While I don't completely disagree, I will continue to point to the Rams. New coach, new DC and a complete turn around from '16 to '17.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

While I don't completely disagree, I will continue to point to the Rams. New coach, new DC and a complete turn around from '16 to '17.

And a quarterback in his second season as opposed to his rookie season.

Coaching is important, but without talent on the field, there are limits to what can be accomplished.

 

[Ace]

Coaching is important, but without talent on the field, there are limits to what can be accomplished.

No question, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Kirk Cousins numbers as a starting QB with McVay as OC were higher across the board for the most part than last year without him either. McVay was the perfect hire for the Rams with Goff entering his 2nd year.

 

[hallzi43]

No question, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Kirk Cousins numbers as a starting QB with McVay as OC were higher across the board for the most part than last year without him either. McVay was the perfect hire for the Rams with Goff entering his 2nd year.

I also don't think it is a coincidence that his numbers tumbled with a loss of Desean Jackson and Garcon while also barely having Jordan Reed (even when he did in limited amounts he was very ineffective due to injury) and basically an ineffective Terrelle Pryor also due to injuries.

I mean Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, and Vernon Davis stepped up some. But you would have to believe his numbers would have been much better with a healthy Jordan Reed and Terrelle Pryor.

Not that I don't agree that McVay did wonders for the LA offense though. He obviously changed that program around quite a bit for the better.

 

[Ace]

I also don't think it is a coincidence that his numbers tumbled with a loss of Desean Jackson and Garcon while also barely having Jordan Reed (even when he did in limited amounts he was very ineffective due to injury) and basically an ineffective Terrelle Pryor also due to injuries.

I mean Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, and Vernon Davis stepped up some. But you would have to believe his numbers would have been much better with a healthy Jordan Reed and Terrelle Pryor.

Not that I don't agree that McVay did wonders for the LA offense though. He obviously changed that program around quite a bit for the better.

So in 2017, if Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Terelle Pryor and Jordan Reed/Vernon Davis were replaced with Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Cooper Kupp and Higbee/Everett do you think Cousins still would have seen a dip in production?

You make a fair point regarding the weapons Cousins had in 2017, and I'm not arguing or saying Goff didn't make a jump from yr 1 to yr 2. But McVay, I believe, had significantly more to do with the turnaround than a rookie to 2nd yr QB jump did. My belief is without McVay, Goff doesn't make that jump as quickly and as significantly as he did is all. And the point behind all of this is, I'm hoping that Pettine has a similar impact on the Packers D in 2018.

 

[hallzi43]

So in 2017, if Ryan Grant, Jamison Crowder, Terelle Pryor and Jordan Reed/Vernon Davis were replaced with Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Cooper Kupp and Higbee/Everett do you think Cousins still would have seen a dip in production?

You make a fair point regarding the weapons Cousins had in 2017, and I'm not arguing or saying Goff didn't make a jump from yr 1 to yr 2. But McVay, I believe, had significantly more to do with the turnaround than a rookie to 2nd yr QB jump did. My belief is without McVay, Goff doesn't make that jump as quickly and as significantly as he did is all. And the point behind all of this is, I'm hoping that Pettine has a similar impact on the Packers D in 2018.

Right and I agree that McVay certainly was big on that turnaround. I was just throwing in the fact that the drop in Cousins play could be a lot of contributing factors. Just losing Reed, a guy he had targeted 114 times in 2015 and 98 times in 2016 respectively, is quite a loss for him in 2017. Especially in the RZ.

 

[gbgary]

so far the D has only gotten worse this off-season. they need to concentrate on D improvement. O improvement is a luxury right now although they do need a number 2 wr and a rg.

 

[Ace]

so far the D has only gotten worse this off-season. they need to concentrate on D improvement. O improvement is a luxury right now although they do need a number 2 wr and a rg.

Lost: Capers, Randall, and Morgan
Gained: Pettine, Wilkerson, Tramon

While I wholeheartedly agree they need to continue to concentrate on D, I don't think flat out saying it's only gotten worse is fair either. If Tramon can play to the level he did last year and Wilkerson plays anywhere close to the level he has in the past, one could make the argument the defense has improved. 2 big If's I understand but the firing of Capers should lead to an improvement in itself.

 

[hallzi43]

Burnett largely played a role that Josh Jones was meant to play. So I don't believe that losing him was one that is too costly. Losing Randall hurt but the addition of Tramon, a year of experience on King, and possible additions from FA/high draft choice should close the gap significantly from where we were last season in the secondary.

Pettine's scheme should improve our defense all by itself. All Capers did was blitz, blitz, and blitz some more. We were so predictable it was silly. Hopefully we can add a couple of superb athletes in the draft. Ryan and Martinez are poor mans versions of the ILB I would like to see on the field. A Roquan Smith falling in round 1 or Vander Esch falling in round 2 could really ramp up the core of our defense. Derwin James falling in round 1 could be a real game changer as a Nickel back/Safety hybrid. Michael Hughes, a guy some think we reach for in round 1, falling in round 2 could be a nice piece to add to our defense.

 

[Reggie White Cheese]

I know they are just mocks but from literally the first mock came out it's Packers selecting Marcus Davenport.. When draft day comes are we as fans satisfied with that pick.. Personally if Smith falls to 14 we take him should be no question.... I'm on the fence at this point between big time receiver or defence at 14...I'm not entirely sure about Allison and potentially Cobb leaving it's Adams and what....

 

[Curly Calhoun]

No question, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Kirk Cousins numbers as a starting QB with McVay as OC were higher across the board for the most part than last year without him either. McVay was the perfect hire for the Rams with Goff entering his 2nd year.

Well, let's hope the new coaching staff can elevate the play of those returning vets, and that Green Bay can get more production out of those first four selections (King, Jones, M. Adams & Biegel) than they did in their rookie years.

 

[hallzi43]

I know they are just mocks but from literally the first mock came out it's Packers selecting Marcus Davenport.. When draft day comes are we as fans satisfied with that pick.. Personally if Smith falls to 14 we take him should be no question.... I'm on the fence at this point between big time receiver or defence at 14...I'm not entirely sure about Allison and potentially Cobb leaving it's Adams and what....

Really not a fan of Davenport but I can understand the pick. Big size, good against the run, will probably develop into a decent pass rusher eventually. The problem with drafting Davenport, or even Landry with the first pick is that I don't think you are getting an immediate impact player for 2018. On the flip side if you have James, Smith, Ward as possible first picks, Hughes/Vander Esch if you either trade back or they fall to our second round pick. Those guys should be immediate impact players on defense this season.

 

[hallzi43]

Well, let's hope the new coaching staff can elevate the play of those returning vets, and that Green Bay can get more production out of those first four selections (King, Jones, M. Adams & Biegel) than they did in their rookie years.

Would be surprised to see Adams much this season stuck behind Daniels, Wilkerson, Clark, and Lowry.

 

[Jerellh528]

Coach Mccarthy recently said they’re taking a year one approach to how they build the offense this season. He sounded like he seems to think there’s some complacency going on after having the same system for 12 years. Says they’re going to scrub the entire thing from the beginning and everything is up for altering or change, even down to nomenclature.
I wouldn’t expect a huge difference obviously, but I am excited to see some changes and if the offense can look a bit more dynamic this year.

 

[Jerellh528]

I know they are just mocks but from literally the first mock came out it's Packers selecting Marcus Davenport.. When draft day comes are we as fans satisfied with that pick.. Personally if Smith falls to 14 we take him should be no question.... I'm on the fence at this point between big time receiver or defence at 14...I'm not entirely sure about Allison and potentially Cobb leaving it's Adams and what....

I don’t see a big time wr in this draft that we need to have at 14. I think the pick has to be defense. Either a DB or Linebacker preferably.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And the point behind all of this is, I'm hoping that Pettine has a similar impact on the Packers D in 2018.

That would definitely be exciting and instantly result in the Packers being the team to beat in 2018. Unfortunately I have a hard time imagining the defense to perform at an elite level just because of Pettine's hiring.

so far the D has only gotten worse this off-season. they need to concentrate on D improvement.

I think the talent level on defense is currently on par with last year's unit. Hopefully Gutekunst isn't done upgrading that side of the ball though.

Burnett largely played a role that Josh Jones was meant to play. So I don't believe that losing him was one that is too costly.

Hopefully we can add a couple of superb athletes in the draft. Ryan and Martinez are poor mans versions of the ILB I would like to see on the field.

Jones might be able to adequately replace Burnett but he has to improve the mental aspect of his game as he had way too many lapses during his rookie season.

I'm absolutely fine with Martinez playing a significant amount of snaps but the Packers need a more athletic linebacker opposite of him who excels in coverage.

I know they are just mocks but from literally the first mock came out it's Packers selecting Marcus Davenport.. When draft day comes are we as fans satisfied with that pick..

The Packers shouldn't draft Davenport at #14. I would be fine with selecting him in the second round though.

The problem with drafting Davenport, or even Landry with the first pick is that I don't think you are getting an immediate impact player for 2018.

In my opinion Landry would have an immediate impact in 2018.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Would be surprised to see Adams much this season stuck behind Daniels, Wilkerson, Clark, and Lowry.

Really? Given Green Bay's history with injuries?

You're likely going to need more than four.

 

[hallzi43]

That would definitely be exciting and instantly result in the Packers being the team to beat in 2018. Unfortunately I have a hard time imagining the defense to perform at an elite level just because of Pettine's hiring.



I think the talent level on defense is currently on par with last year's unit. Hopefully Gutekunst isn't done upgrading that side of the ball though.



Jones might be able to adequately replace Burnett but he has to improve the mental aspect of his game as he had way too many lapses during his rookie season.

I'm absolutely fine with Martinez playing a significant amount of snaps but the Packers need a more athletic linebacker opposite of him who excels in coverage.



The Packers shouldn't draft Davenport at #14. I would be fine with selecting him in the second round though.



In my opinion Landry would have an immediate impact in 2018.

Jones actually played really well when playing closer to the line as a hybrid LB. It was when they had him deep he struggled and made way too many lapses.

Not sure Davenport will be there in round 2 for our pick. But I guess it depends on how people actually view Arden Key now. The hopes are that if we take a pass rusher they have an immediate impact, but I am not counting on it. I agree that I believe Landry has the best chance to succeed immediately though as a pass rusher. The athleticism is certainly there which is the first good sign.

 

[hallzi43]

Really? Given Green Bay's history with injuries?

You're likely going to need more than four.

He will get some playing time for sure. But he only saw 7 games last season. Ricky Jean Francois seen 6. Quentin Dial seen 13. Add in Wilkerson to replace Dial and without serious injury to one of the top 4 guys Adams will see pretty limited time.

 

[sschind]

I know they are just mocks but from literally the first mock came out it's Packers selecting Marcus Davenport.. When draft day comes are we as fans satisfied with that pick.. Personally if Smith falls to 14 we take him should be no question.... I'm on the fence at this point between big time receiver or defence at 14...I'm not entirely sure about Allison and potentially Cobb leaving it's Adams and what....

I don't know where they rank on the big board but from what I have seen only 1 WR (Ridley) is consistently picked to go in the top half of the draft. If he is there and we take him I'll be fine but if we take any other WR at #14 I probably won't be as fine. If we nab a guy like Sutton or St brown in the second or third I'm fine with either of those and even if we have to move up a bit I'd still be OK. I just wouldn't care to see either one taken at #14 and I honest don't want to trade back and take either one either.

I think this draft is shaping up to be a perfect storm for us in that we have a top half of the round regular picks, we have extra picks to allow us to move up even higher if we want and at the top end the need at QB should make it so that an impact player drops to us at 14. We also have needs for upgrades at several positions (not that that in itself is a good thing) but it allows us to be more flexible in who we take at 14. If we only had 1 significant need (CB for example) we may be more apt to reach for the position whereas with other needs (WR or edge) we can take a Ridley or a Davenport (or whoever you think is the best) if they are there and it won't be a "wasted" pick.

 

[brandon2348]

I don't know where they rank on the big board but from what I have seen only 1 WR (Ridley) is consistently picked to go in the top half of the draft. If he is there and we take him I'll be fine but if we take any other WR at #14 I probably won't be as fine. If we nab a guy like Sutton or St brown in the second or third I'm fine with either of those and even if we have to move up a bit I'd still be OK. I just wouldn't care to see either one taken at #14 and I honest don't want to trade back and take either one either.

I think this draft is shaping up to be a perfect storm for us in that we have a top half of the round regular picks, we have extra picks to allow us to move up even higher if we want and at the top end the need at QB should make it so that an impact player drops to us at 14. We also have needs for upgrades at several positions (not that that in itself is a good thing) but it allows us to be more flexible in who we take at 14. If we only had 1 significant need (CB for example) we may be more apt to reach for the position whereas with other needs (WR or edge) we can take a Ridley or a Davenport (or whoever you think is the best) if they are there and it won't be a "wasted" pick.

I'm pretty sure the Packers pick would be Sutton over Ridley. Based on production, measurables and athleticism Sutton is head shoulders closer to what the Packers typically value and draft in a WR.