Blake Martinez

[XPack]

The problem isn’t his willingness to “hustle”.

Ofc, I can pull up a couple of snaps where he stopped the run at LoS too in past 3 games. We even had one vs Raiders iirc. The Jacobs last run, he broke through 4 tackles, Blake and Tramon at LB and 2 more deeper too. It's not like we're going to be a Top 3 run D suddenly if we replace Blake. The play call is quite aggressive with emphasis on the edges.

 

[swhitset]

Ofc, I can pull up a couple of snaps where he stopped the run at LoS too in past 3 games. We even had one vs Raiders iirc. The Jacobs last run, he broke through 4 tackles, Blake and Tramon at LB and 2 more deeper too. It's not like we're going to be a Top 3 run D suddenly if we replace Blake. The play call is quite aggressive with emphasis on the edges.

And I’m sure I can pull up more than a couple where he didn’t. At this point replacing him is not very likely. However, that does not mean I would be in favor of throwing a bunch of money at him next year.

 

[PackFan2]

I've enjoyed Martinez commanding the defense and making sure everyone lines up correctly, especially before they break the huddle... if we let Martinez go who'd we have left..? Serious question, how has Burks been playing? Because if y'all assume we let Martinez go (and don't sign him), Burks is in line to take over his spot.

 

[swhitset]

I've enjoyed Martinez commanding the defense and making sure everyone lines up correctly, especially before they break the huddle... if we let Martinez go who'd we have left..? Serious question, how has Burks been playing? Because if y'all assume we let Martinez go (and don't sign him), Burks is in line to take over his spot.

Nobody is going to “let him go” this year. He is a decent linebacker, especially for a fourth round pick, He is also all we’ve got right now. However, as a free agent next year, I would not expect the Packers to pay what he may command in free agency. We got him in the fourth round, hopefully next year Gute can find an adequate replacement.

 

[XPack]

And I’m sure I can pull up more than a couple where he didn’t. At this point replacing him is not very likely. However, that does not mean I would be in favor of throwing a bunch of money at him next year.

"Bunch of money" is a very ambiguous term. I'd say he has earned an improved contract but not an extravagant one. Better but not top $ is how I see this.

 

[Dantés]

That’s the exact argument I’m using but conversely. His role is his role. Who has he played next to? Inside LBs in a 3-4 should be paired appropriately with a compliment. Who is his complimentary LB?

When he’s paired with a better coverage guy.. Saftry etc.. the D performs far better. When he’s on an island the D suffers. I watched his film a few weeks ago against the Eagles. He was alone in the middle on the vast majority of snaps. We were playing a
4-1-6. Or a 5-1- 5. Five or Six in the box is a recipe for getting destroyed in the run and short passing game. That’s what happened.

It takes many games of dual ILBs to gel. It’s been an absolute turnstile in the middle. Start switching out OL like we do his ILB counterpart. It would be a disaster. Put Erick Kendrick’s next to him and they absolutely would be a wrecking crew within a matter of weeks (particularly if Kenny played next to a better DL). We’re using OLBs as DEs constantly. We need a true perimeter pass rusher so one Smith can hang back. While those guys perform well.. it’s opening up a huge hole in the middle. 1 man can’t defend all that space.

When he's paired with a better coverage guy, the passing defense performs better, but the team becomes more susceptible to the run. This is because Martinez can't handle blockers, and neither can the cover specialist.

So enter Goodson to try and counteract that deficiency, and suddenly the pass defense becomes more of a weakness because Martinez also can't really cover.

This is why some people continue to say that he holds the defense back because he doesn't excel in either area. Unless the DL is keeping the second level totally clean, he forces you to pick your poison. And with Clark playing injured lately, it's been harder for the DL to keep him clean.

 

[OldSchool101]

When he's paired with a better coverage guy, the passing defense performs better, but the team becomes more susceptible to the run. This is because Martinez can't handle blockers, and neither can the cover specialist.

So enter Goodson to try and counteract that deficiency, and suddenly the pass defense becomes more of a weakness because Martinez also can't really cover.

This is why some people continue to say that he holds the defense back because he doesn't excel in either area. Unless the DL is keeping the second level totally clean, he forces you to pick your poison. And with Clark playing injured lately, it's been harder for the DL to keep him clean.

So far, LBs are similar in respect to neither play the pass particularly well. Your ILB pair should balance more, 1 leaning pass D effective and 1 leaning Run D effective. We really haven’t had that to make a proper evaluation IMO. So the only logical thing we can do is point fingers in the meantime. I get that. But it doesn’t fix our deficiencies.

We need a stellar LB who can drop into coverage. Blake is NOT a coverage Backer, but as you pointed out he’s being used as such. That’s called being spread thin.
Raven Green was the best compliment to Blake thus far, but he’s not an ideal fit either. I all but can promise you.. if we had a true above average coverage ILB
We wouldn’t be having this debate about who’s at fault.
Goodson is nothing more than a “depth” patch, which we also needed. That didn’t correction the problem.

I was going to say, the next best thing meantime is to use one of our bigger Safeties. I think we’ve dabbled there already to no avail. I’m perplexed what’s going on with Burks who I believe was supposed to be our answer. It’s the million dollar ? Right now.

 

[AmishMafia]

We need to see what becomes of the Oren Berkz/ Martinez combo. Berkz is a converted safety so presumably he has more wherewithal in the passing game. Didn't see much of him vrs Oakland. But he needs time.

 

[PackFan2]

Nobody is going to “let him go” this ye

Never said 'let him go this year.' but whateves. Point still is, if we don't sign him next year we either have to pay another veteran in free agent who may or may not have knowledge on Pettine's defense, rely on Burks or draft a rookie.

 

[PackFan2]

So far, LBs are similar in respect to neither play the pass particularly well. Your ILB pair should balance more, 1 leaning pass D effective and 1 leaning Run D effective. We really haven’t had that to make a proper evaluation IMO. So the only logical thing we can do is point fingers in the meantime. I get that. But it doesn’t fix our deficiencies.

We need a stellar LB who can drop into coverage. Blake is NOT a coverage Backer, but as you pointed out he’s being used as such. That’s called being spread thin.
Raven Green was the best compliment to Blake thus far, but he’s not an ideal fit either. I all but can promise you.. if we had a true above average coverage ILB
We wouldn’t be having this debate about who’s at fault.
Goodson is nothing more than a “depth” patch, which we also needed. That didn’t correction the problem.

I was going to say, the next best thing meantime is to use one of our bigger Safeties. I think we’ve dabbled there already to no avail. I’m perplexed what’s going on with Burks who I believe was supposed to be our answer. It’s the million dollar ? Right now.

PREACH!

 

[Dantés]

So far, LBs are similar in respect to neither play the pass particularly well. Your ILB pair should balance more, 1 leaning pass D effective and 1 leaning Run D effective. We really haven’t had that to make a proper evaluation IMO. So the only logical thing we can do is point fingers in the meantime. I get that. But it doesn’t fix our deficiencies.

We need a stellar LB who can drop into coverage. Blake is NOT a coverage Backer, but as you pointed out he’s being used as such. That’s called being spread thin.
Raven Green was the best compliment to Blake thus far, but he’s not an ideal fit either. I all but can promise you.. if we had a true above average coverage ILB
We wouldn’t be having this debate about who’s at fault.
Goodson is nothing more than a “depth” patch, which we also needed. That didn’t correction the problem.

I was going to say, the next best thing meantime is to use one of our bigger Safeties. I think we’ve dabbled there already to no avail. I’m perplexed what’s going on with Burks who I believe was supposed to be our answer. It’s the million dollar ? Right now.

I agree that playing a true cover talent next to Martinez helps matters. But it doesn't solve the reality, then, that Martinez is your MIKE but he can't handle any sort of blocker reaching the second level and doesn't really play downhill against the run.

Ideally, you either want two well rounded players who can dabble in either role, or one player who can take on running responsibilities and another who can handle passing responsibilities.

Burks seems to be very gradually increasing his usage in the defense.

 

[gbgary]

it's hard enough getting one stud ilb but getting two is near impossible. dallas seems to be one of the exceptions. if martinez was paired with a better ilb than burks things would/could be different. waller going nuts yesterday wasn't on martinez. it's on pettine for ignoring the only real weapon carr had yesterday.

 

[Dantés]

it's hard enough getting one stud ilb but getting two is near impossible. dallas seems to be one of the exceptions. if martinez was paired with a better ilb than burks things would/could be different. waller going nuts yesterday wasn't on martinez. it's on pettine for ignoring the only real weapon carr had yesterday.

I don't think the Packers have one "stud" linebacker. They have one player who can drop in a shallow zone and will track down ball carriers if you keep him clean. They have one player who will thump in the box. They should have one or two box safety types who can cover a little bit. And they have one unknown.

If they had one "stud" at one spot, playing a one dimensional guy next to him wouldn't be as big of an issue.

 

[gbgary]

I don't think the Packers have one "stud" linebacker. They have one player who can drop in a shallow zone and will track down ball carriers if you keep him clean. They have one player who will thump in the box. They should have one or two box safety types who can cover a little bit. And they have one unknown.

If they had one "stud" at one spot, playing a one dimensional guy next to him wouldn't be as big of an issue.

i agree. i'm saying he'd be better with a stud ilb. getting that one guy is very tough.

 

[OldSchool101]

Showing a goal line play is not going to work

It’s the most important play of all.

I agree that playing a true cover talent next to Martinez helps matters. But it doesn't solve the reality, then, that Martinez is your MIKE but he can't handle any sort of blocker reaching the second level and doesn't really play downhill against the run.

I know we will never convince one another as we’re on opposite spectrums. I say that and I’m really not even saying Martinez is that great. But he’s above average if played in the appropriate position IMO.

To test some of these comments about Blake getting blown up etc.. I rewatched a condensed version of the Oakland game. I concentrated on Blake and Goodson (which surprisingly wasn’t used much)
He wasn’t nearly as bad as being made out.

To your point though he missed that early Tackle against Jacobs (who’s in the running for a Rookie of the Year and is a very good RB) so did 3 more players after him btw.. Williams got Juked 2X btw.
But what was most telling is he missed 2.5 yards BEHIND the LOS (that doesn’t fit with your narrative of waiting for the RB) He also had several other plays that he made contact behind the LOS. Most of them Jacobs redirected into a pile of defenders for 1-4 yard type gains. Nothing too bad really.
Where we got ate up is when Martinez played alone as the sole ILB. He would bite on play action fake.. (which you either drop uphill or downhill) but he had to do both. He’d meet the LOS but by then realize it was not handed off.. by then the TE was 5-10 yards past him, he’d turn and pursue but he was out of the play altogether. He can’t be in both places at once.

He made some nice tackles sideline to sideline that were away from him for short gains. Nothing too unusual in the Run D, especially considering who was running with the ball. #28 is better than many in here give him credit for. There’s probably 5 guys better running the ball and we’ll probably play some fraction of them all year.

 

[Mondio]

That wasn't my narrative, I noted it, it was one of the lone times he actually came forward and missed. I know Jacobs is good. Martinez is average give or take on any given day. Lately I think he's been less than. the majority he's waiting on a ball carrier

 

[Dantés]

I did not think that Martinez himself had a terrible game on Sunday accomplishing the tasks asked of him.

I think that the defense had a tough day because of the personnel that has to be fielded, in part because of Martinez's inabilities as a run defender. His limitations necessitate the presence of another player, who can then be targeted for mismatches by the offense.

I've said my piece. I've made it clear what I think of Martinez and why. I found a resource with dozens of clips that help illustrate it. If my case is not convincing, then by all means people should form different opinions.

 

[OldSchool101]

I did not think that Martinez himself had a terrible game on Sunday accomplishing the tasks asked of him.

I think that the defense had a tough day because of the personnel that has to be fielded, in part because of Martinez's inabilities as a run defender. His limitations necessitate the presence of another player, who can then be targeted for mismatches by the offense.

I've said my piece. I've made it clear what I think of Martinez and why. I found a resource with dozens of clips that help illustrate it. If my case is not convincing, then by all means people should form different opinions.

I appreciate your passion. We both can agree we love this team.

 

[XPack]

From last season....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/packer...lake-martinezs-tackle-for-losses-in-2017/amp/

 

[Calvin]

From last season....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/packer...lake-martinezs-tackle-for-losses-in-2017/amp/

The reality is on the majority of running play pause the tape when the RB gets the ball. Martinez for the most will be seen standing in place.

Now watch a good LB in a similar scheme. When that ball is hiked on a run, they immediately are at the los attacking consistently all game long
He is not one of those LBs.

 

[XPack]

The reality is on the majority of running play pause the tape when the RB gets the ball. Martinez for the most will be seen standing in place.

Now watch a good LB in a similar scheme. When that ball is hiked on a run, they immediately are at the los attacking consistently all game long
He is not one of those LBs.

It's just your perception, not a 'reality'. I've watched the same games and have a different opinion.

Pretty much most of websites and NFL media "experts" seem to share my opinion btw. Not saying that's right, but just that opinions are different from reality.

 

[gopkrs]

I noticed that Martinez seems to be looking for the run too long. To the point that the TE just runs in back of him for an easy catch. Martinez needs to be aware of the receivers running through his area as well as being ready to come up for a tackle if it is a run. He is on an island in the middle at times and needs to be aware of the receivers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

To test some of these comments about Blake getting blown up etc.. I rewatched a condensed version of the Oakland game. I concentrated on Blake and Goodson (which surprisingly wasn’t used much.

Goodson (40) actually received significantly more snaps on defense than Burks (14) vs. the Raiders.

 

[gopkrs]

I saw Goodson make some good plays. Not at all sure about his overall grade though. Maybe bring Burks in on passing downs. Burks definitely needs some more playing time. Especially when we have a lead. imho

 

[Mondio]

Goodson has seemed to be improving from week to week. Had a rough start, but that's expected when you join a new team and have zero snaps with them.